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I've no immediate citations, but I've heard quite a few occasions in the fluff where Orky morale was broken by killing one of their bosses, sending them into a panic.

I know there's the argument that they run away to fight another day, but I thought they had no real sense of self preservation? And that the quality of the fight was what mattered, more so than the victory. To the point that surely a losing battle would be much more fun than a cakewalk?

This also leads onto another question. Wouldn't the easiest way to defeat the Orks be to offer no resistance at all? Wouldn't they get bored with a pacifist response and move on? They don't seem the type to massacre unarmed civillians in cold blood. Or would they enslave the populace to produce weapons and such? I don't really know what Orks do in terms of conquest.

Well, it's more along the lines of when a boss dies a power struggle is imminent as all of the nobz start trying to take command. Also, orks believe it or not, aren't entirely stupid. If they see they're getting slaughtered beyond an acceptable level (which is a large amount of dead orks, mind you, like massive amounts) they'll pull off for now.

As for pulling a Ghandi or MLK Jr, they enslave the populace, work them to death, and fight over who gets to keep the humie gitz. Oh, and they might eat a few if they get hungry. (Last bit I picked up from a Ciaphis Cain novel. Last Ditch I believe)

Makes sense I guess, but the image of Ork slavemasters kind of ruins their happy-go-lucky image a little.

Hierophant wrote:
Makes sense I guess, but the image of Ork slavemasters kind of ruins their happy-go-lucky image a little.

Disagree, an Ork with ummie slaves is both lucky and happy.

Orks that fight then runs away gets to fight another day!

Ork morale relies entirely on there being a big 'un to follow. With the death of the biggest Ork on the block, they route immediately and vanish in the hills until a Nob (or minor boss) asserts dominance as the new leader and rallies back all the boys to his command.

If they run away, that means they get two fights. That's good orkie maffs.

They treat their grots badly (work them until they're flattened, blown up, stood on, appetising or useless) why would they treat humans any better? They'd happily eat or throw out kids or elderly umies unless they've settled somewhere that had other industry such as basic clothing. Even then it's not a safe bet against a race that enjoys chewing squigs.

Orks aren't mindless. They aren't terribly far off from humans when it comes to self-preservation. The main difference is that it is more directly linked to physical size - the bigger the greenskin, the more likely they are to have a sense of invincibility. They are also motivated by more than just fighting. Painboyz want to perform experiments, Meks want to build, weirdboyz - well - they are just weird.

As to your last point, if say a planet tried the pacifist route, Orks would butcher a large percentage of them just in the hope that the rest may put up a fight. If they still don't, then they will butcher a whole lot more in frustration. What is left would likely be enslaved and killed for sport. Running is a better option than pacifism.

Hierophant wrote:
I've no immediate citations, but I've heard quite a few occasions in the fluff where Orky morale was broken by killing one of their bosses, sending them into a panic.

I know there's the argument that they run away to fight another day, but I thought they had no real sense of self preservation? And that the quality of the fight was what mattered, more so than the victory. To the point that surely a losing battle would be much more fun than a cakewalk?

This also leads onto another question. Wouldn't the easiest way to defeat the Orks be to offer no resistance at all? Wouldn't they get bored with a pacifist response and move on? They don't seem the type to massacre unarmed civillians in cold blood. Or would they enslave the populace to produce weapons and such? I don't really know what Orks do in terms of conquest.

They're like wargamers.

They all want a good fight, and the strugglier the better. But when some a-hole plops down seven warhound titans, and you've only brought a few gitz, you don't find it so fun anymore.


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Sidenote: Orks don't have a fear of death. Or of pain. They do have self preservation. For the same reason that you don't hit all your wargame armies with a hammer, they don't just let themselves get nuked off the planet. They wanna carry on krumpin'.

Orks like to fight and win! Not fight and loose.

If things go wrong if there is not a big enough ork to slap them around enough they will run away.

Also concerning the older fluff iirc orks could be very cowardly if things went wrong, poor leadership or multiple defeats. They still had morale roughly along human lines, but apart from fighting for freedom, god or resources they fought because they love fighting! What made them run was usually no different.

At least in the older fluff orks had the potential to be very cowardly.

Because it's all fun and games until a bolt shell goes through your cranium.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Because it's all fun and games until a bolt shell goes through your cranium.

Well, that's the point where Ghazza finally got serious!

Orkz is made fer' two fings! Fightin', and winnin'!
Losin' ain't fun.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Orkz is made fer' two fings! Fightin', and winnin'!
Losin' ain't fun.

Orks never lose. If they die then they're dead so it doesn't count. If they run away they can come again for another go, see?

Orks never retreat. They charge into a future battle.

Because Phil Kelly is the rich man's Cruddace; if you're not a nazi space elf he'll phone your codex in.

Apparently in 7th edition orks watch a couple of their mates take a hit and run weeping back to their bunk to write soul searching poetry on the nature of war and loss.


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YES I"M STILL BITTER!

They love to fight, sure, but they arent morons and are mortal.

They can still be frightened.

Orks run away coz dey can always come back for anuvva go!

Orks are capable of mass panic and cowardice. Just as a WAAAAGH's psychic energy empowers Orks into berserker mode, if it breaks with the Warboss' death they'll all be thrown into a blind panic.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Orks never retreat. They charge into a future battle. We'z beein' sneeky an' chargin' around tha planet to get behind da gunz!

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 Gunnvulcan wrote:
They love to fight, sure, but they arent morons and are mortal.

They can still be frightened.

I maintain that they are all idiots, but just can't see the point in not being able to do more fighting.

 Selym wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Orks never retreat. They charge into a future battle. We'z beein' sneeky an' chargin' around tha planet to get behind da gunz!

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 Gunnvulcan wrote:
They love to fight, sure, but they arent morons and are mortal.

They can still be frightened.

I maintain that they are all idiots, but just can't see the point in not being able to do more fighting.

Magellan was an Ork confirmed.

There are a number of quite unpleasant descriptions of former Imperial citizens that have been enslaved by Orks:

Branding, constant work, brutal punishments, near starvation, being killed on a whim......

You don't become the most dangerous force in the galaxy by blindly running at gunlines.

Its a big part of the fluff. Many Imperial commanders assume they're dealing with brainless savages only to be defeated due to their overconfidence. It was the entire basis of Von Strab's strategy during the Second Armageddon War.

Remember that Runtherdz are the Orks with the specialized knowledge necessary to not accidentally beat a slave to death, and to remember not to shoot them just because they're bored.

Also, it's hard for Orks to get their revenge if there's nothing to revenge. Some Orks simply get their vengeance in first.

Hierophant wrote:
I've no immediate citations, but I've heard quite a few occasions in the fluff where Orky morale was broken by killing one of their bosses, sending them into a panic.

I know there's the argument that they run away to fight another day, but I thought they had no real sense of self preservation? And that the quality of the fight was what mattered, more so than the victory. To the point that surely a losing battle would be much more fun than a cakewalk?

This also leads onto another question. Wouldn't the easiest way to defeat the Orks be to offer no resistance at all? Wouldn't they get bored with a pacifist response and move on? They don't seem the type to massacre unarmed civillians in cold blood. Or would they enslave the populace to produce weapons and such? I don't really know what Orks do in terms of conquest.

Orks is good at 2 fings: Fightin' an' winnin'

If dey win, dey win.
If dey die, dey died fightin' so it don't count.
If dey leg it, dey can come back and give it anuvver go, so that don't count, eivver.

One has to remember Orks work purely on mob mentality.
Think about rioters IRL. As a a big group they feel invincable, cocky and unstoppable. But faced down with a mounted cavalry charge or a giant water cannon they soon realise, "ah feck this, it might not be worth it".
Orks whilst not exactly the same are akin to this.
If you can isolate a group of orks in a battle and put the hurt on them they are much more likely to run, even if they love to fight.
Seeing their warboss or leader go down is similar. The Ork mentality is if that the Boss can be killed, so can we, so we're off.
Orks are essentially just big bullies. If you can out bully them, you've won

In one of the Ork Codices thay had a snipit on that, I can't remember exactly how it went....


DELETED VIA EDIT


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 Psienesis wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
I've no immediate citations, but I've heard quite a few occasions in the fluff where Orky morale was broken by killing one of their bosses, sending them into a panic.

I know there's the argument that they run away to fight another day, but I thought they had no real sense of self preservation? And that the quality of the fight was what mattered, more so than the victory. To the point that surely a losing battle would be much more fun than a cakewalk?

This also leads onto another question. Wouldn't the easiest way to defeat the Orks be to offer no resistance at all? Wouldn't they get bored with a pacifist response and move on? They don't seem the type to massacre unarmed civillians in cold blood. Or would they enslave the populace to produce weapons and such? I don't really know what Orks do in terms of conquest.

Orks is good at 2 fings: Fightin' an' winnin'

If dey win, dey win.
If dey die, dey died fightin' so it don't count.
If dey leg it, dey can come back and give it anuvver go, so that don't count, eivver.

this was it i just missed it on first scroll down

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

In this case, you have an author or authors, who wrote the last ork codex whose only knowledge on Orks was the handful of times they played against an Ork Army and either got Wrecked or vaguely remember the things that worked the best. In an age of Space Elves you can't have anyone being better then them in anything so they took away all the really good stuff in the codex, or nerfed it into the ground. And then rewrote the codex and fluff to better suit a whipping boy so other armies can have something to practice against.

Not entierly true, Orks have been somewhat cowardly since 2nd ed fluff.
The recent codicies have done nothing to discredit or enforce this more than it is.

As I said, Orks in numbers are bullies, thats the way they have been written since way back when.

 Ratius wrote:
Not entierly true, Orks have been somewhat cowardly since 2nd ed fluff.
The recent codicies have done nothing to discredit or enforce this more than it is.

As I said, Orks in numbers are bullies, thats the way they have been written since way back when.

if your going to quote me in your signature spell my name right!

Orks have always been cowards I understand that, but they brought it to new heights in this edition.