CptJake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


Yes; this is essentially the crux of the issue and the summary, ultimately. American has a lot of firearms and we enjoy using them, and we're by and large OK with the occasional piles of dead young people that accrue. The second amendment prevents us from significantly changing that paradigm, and there is no political will to change the situation. Everything else is a waste of breath. We offer useless prayers and meaningless lip service, and then we move on barely before the blood is mopped up.

I respect you and your intelligence, Ouze, so I'll pose this question in hopes of an honest answer:

What can we do, in 2015 America, that will curtail the gun crimes committed by criminals? If we were able to wave a wand and get rid of all legally registered firearms in the hands of their lawful owners, do you think we'd see a major decrease in gun crime? We obviously would in gun deaths, since around 66% of them come from suicide. But do you believe there is a path we can take that will noticeably affect that downward trend more than we already are?

Yes, Because, less readily available guns means less gun crime
Remember, the gun from Sandy Hook was a legal gun stolen from his mother.

Said differently, the guns used in Sandy Hook were illegally obtained through murder and theft.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Except for this y'know
From Stanford
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/november/donohue-guns-study-111414.html

Right to carry is a wholly independent issue.

We're talking about violent crime and gun crime vs. gun ownership.

Moooooove em!

Its not a different issue. If having guns around increases crime rate(Which according to Stanford, a well recognized establishment) then it is proven that guns can cause crime.

 cincydooley wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

Yep, the number of the guns in the US has increased as the number of people owning guns has decreased. Pesky facts and all that.

And tell me about the violent crime rate.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


Yes; this is essentially the crux of the issue and the summary, ultimately. American has a lot of firearms and we enjoy using them, and we're by and large OK with the occasional piles of dead young people that accrue. The second amendment prevents us from significantly changing that paradigm, and there is no political will to change the situation. Everything else is a waste of breath. We offer useless prayers and meaningless lip service, and then we move on barely before the blood is mopped up.

I respect you and your intelligence, Ouze, so I'll pose this question in hopes of an honest answer:

What can we do, in 2015 America, that will curtail the gun crimes committed by criminals? If we were able to wave a wand and get rid of all legally registered firearms in the hands of their lawful owners, do you think we'd see a major decrease in gun crime? We obviously would in gun deaths, since around 66% of them come from suicide. But do you believe there is a path we can take that will noticeably affect that downward trend more than we already are?

Yes, Because, less readily available guns means less gun crime
Remember, the gun from Sandy Hook was a legal gun stolen from his mother.

Said differently, the guns used in Sandy Hook were illegally obtained through murder and theft.

Except, at one point the gun was obtained legally, it wasnt smuggled in, it wasnt sold to him by the black Market. It was a legal gun that was one step removed from him. He did not have to go to anything. If the gun was not readily availble, it would have been likely to not have happened.
Guns are meant to kill, they are not anything else.

 nels1031 wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
offering only $1000 isn't going to convince many gun owners who deliberately purchased their gun to trade it in for money.

If its a blanket $1000 per gun, I'm buying as many Cobra 380s as I can afford.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Listen, all im saying is while the Ghostkeel suit is nice, it Wish it wasnt competeing in the riptide slot.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

Yep, the number of the guns in the US has increased as the number of people owning guns has decreased. Pesky facts and all that.

And tell me about the violent crime rate.

yes please tell us about it, the only ones I found ended in 2011. can you show the numbers for 2014 and how that trended from 2011?

Prestor Jon wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Listen, all im saying is while the Ghostkeel suit is nice, it Wish it wasnt competeing in the riptide slot.

Hence the reason for playing Unbound. All the suits, all the time.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

Yep, the number of the guns in the US has increased as the number of people owning guns has decreased. Pesky facts and all that.

And tell me about the violent crime rate.

yes please tell us about it, the only ones I found ended in 2011. can you show the numbers for 2014 and how that trended from 2011?

 Ouze wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As has been pointed out before, murder rates are at historic lows. What we have is a problem with people going out and engaging in shock killings. This is a relatively recent phenomenon however. In the time when you order machine guns through the Sears catalog and have the USPS deliver them right to your door, and kids could take their rifle to school so they could go plinking or squirrel hunting after, these things didn't really happen despite guns being far less restricted. Fundamentally, we have a sociological issue where a couple of subsets of the population are feeling increasingly disconnected from society and infuriated for whatever reason, and feel that engaging in these sorts of atrocities makes them relevant and gives them their 15 minutes in the sun as the media goes apeshit over it.

Yes, yes yes.

Cincy asked him if I could think of ways that gun control could reduce crime, and sure, we can do some stuff, but ultimately I don't think reducing availability is the problem, or ultimately that we shouldn't be spending our (imaginary, hypothetical) political capital somewhere more useful. I'm not trying to make a nirvana fallacy here: if we can try and reduce spree killings, we should - but, you know, totally avoidable heart diseases kills a hell of a lot more people every year and gets a lot less coverage on CNN. If we're waving magic legislation wands around with the goal of saving lives, there are more fertile fields to plant.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Guns are meant to kill, they are not anything else.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Do we know of any particular reasoning yet?

 Breotan wrote:
So this thread has devolved into the same arguments that each and every previous shooting related thread has?

Guess that means its closing time?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:



Except, at one point the gun was obtained legally, it wasnt smuggled in, it wasnt sold to him by the black Market. It was a legal gun that was one step removed from him. He did not have to go to anything. If the gun was not readily availble, it would have been likely to not have happened.
Guns are meant to kill, they are not anything else.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
HA, im engaged in two conversations at once and got confused.
But to answer your question. Yes, because, unless we have nanite guns like the ones in MGS4 a gun cannot itself determine if its user is its legal owner. Anyone can pick up gun and shoot it.
And, if you are going by my logic, that, because she was not regulated militia, so she should not have gotten a gun

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Listen, all im saying is while the Ghostkeel suit is nice, it Wish it wasnt competeing in the riptide slot.

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Listen, all im saying is while the Ghostkeel suit is nice, it Wish it wasnt competeing in the riptide slot.

wrong thread methinks

 cincydooley wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

Yep, the number of the guns in the US has increased as the number of people owning guns has decreased. Pesky facts and all that.

And tell me about the violent crime rate.

yes please tell us about it, the only ones I found ended in 2011. can you show the numbers for 2014 and how that trended from 2011?

This gak is pretty easy to find, people.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thanks for the smart comment, you are one of the few. I whine with, rather then people deciding the engage in a debate, they decide to belittle eatchother with snide comments.

I have gone on record with my Opinion on hunting, so I will leave that alone.
I do believe that having more guns around, even legally, can make them easier to get.
Again, if his mother had not legally purchased a gun, or anyone around him had, how easy would it have been to get one?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thanks for the smart comment, you are one of the few. I whine with, rather then people deciding the engage in a debate, they decide to belittle eatchother with snide comments.

I have gone on record with my Opinion on hunting, so I will leave that alone.
I do believe that having more guns around, even legally, can make them easier to get.
Again, if his mother had not legally purchased a gun, or anyone around him had, how easy would it have been to get one?

sirlynchmob wrote:


but you see where you went wrong though, that's violent crimes as a whole. Now find the homicide rates from guns up to and including 2014.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Do we know of any particular reasoning yet?

Oregon gunman singled out Christians during rampage

A gunman singled out Christians, telling them they would see God in “one second,” during a rampage at an Oregon college Thursday that left at least nine innocent people dead and several more wounded, survivors and authorities said.

“[He started] asking people one by one what their religion was. ‘Are you a Christian?’ he would ask them, and if you’re a Christian, stand up. And they would stand up and he said, ‘Good, because you’re a Christian, you are going to see God in just about one second.’ And then he shot and killed them,” Stacy Boylen, whose daughter was wounded at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore., told CNN.

A Twitter user named @bodhilooney, who said her grandmother was at the scene of the carnage, tweeted that if victims said they were Christian, “then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs.”

Gunman Chris Harper-Mercer’s disdain for religion was evident in an online profile, in which he became a member of a “doesn’t like organized religion” group on an Internet dating site.

Kort­ney Moore, 18, said she saw the teacher of her Writing 115 class get shot in the head at the college’s Snyder Hall before the gunman started asking people to state their religion and opening fire, the city’s News-Review newspaper reported.

Harper-Mercer, 26, was killed in a shootout with police outside one of the classrooms, said Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin.
“There was an exchange of gunfire,” he said. “The shooter threat was neutralized.”

Although police put the death toll at 10 — including Harper-Mercer — with seven people injured, Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum had said 13 people died.

In other developments:
-The killer was carrying four guns — three pistols and a rifle — a source told CNN.
 
-An anonymous user wrote in an ominous post on the online bulletin board 4chan Wednesday night: “Some of you guys are alright. Don’t go to school tomorrow if you are in the northwest. happening thread will be posted tomorrow morning. so long space robots.”

-Online profiles linked to Harper-Mercer showed that he had a fascination with the terror tactics of the Irish Republican Army, and bought Nazi memorabilia. He also wrote a blog post that mentioned Vester Lee Flanagan, who murdered a Virginia newswoman and cameraman live on air, according to CBS News. “Seems like the more people you kill, the more you’re in the limelight,” he wrote.

-A former president of the college said that it has only one unarmed security officer and that the community decided against armed guards last year. “I suspect this is going to start a discussion across the country about how community colleges prepare themselves for events like this,” Joe Olson told CBS.

President Obama issued a plea for greater gun control and bemoaned that America is “the only advanced country on Earth [that] sees these kind of mass shooting every few months.”
The attack brought the number of mass shootings in the nation this year to 294, according to the Mass Shooting Tracker.

People were scrambling “like ants” when the gunman opened fire around 10:38 a.m., according to Brady Winder, a 23-year-old student from Portland.

“People [were] screaming, ‘Get out!’ ” he told The News-Review, adding he saw a girl frantically swimming across a creek to escape.

Student Hannah Miles was sitting in a classroom next door when she heard a pop that sounded like a yardstick slapping on a chalkboard, she said.

Everyone in her classroom fled as more gunfire erupted.

Student Brandy Winter posted on Facebook, “I ran to the edge of the campus, down a hill and waited. From talking with a student in the classroom where it happened, almost every person in the room was shot by a man with four guns.”

Another student, Luke Rogers, said he saw blood in a classroom as he was evacuated from the building.
“As we passed by the classroom, on the ground there were drops of blood,” the first-year Umpqua student told CNN. “We didn’t see any bodies. We saw books on the ground.”

One witness told The New York Times that she heard gunshots outside her classroom.

She said a middle-aged woman then tried to close the door and prevent the shooter from getting inside, but she was shot several times in the stomach.

The gunman “was just out there, hanging outside the door,” Cassandra Welding told the Times “and she slumped over and I knew something wasn’t right. And they’re like, ‘She got shot, she got shot.’ And everyone is panicking.”

Douglas County Fire Marshal Ray Shoulfer said victims were found in “multiple classrooms,” according to CNN.

The sheriff said the shooter was taken down by two officers who rushed to the scene without backup minutes into the shooting.

In a national address, Obama lamented that mass shootings have become routine in America.

“I hope and pray that I don’t have to come out again during my tenure as president to offer my condolences to families in these circumstances,” he said. “But based on my experience as president, I can’t guarantee that, and that’s terrible to say, and it can change.”

Prestor Jon wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thanks for the smart comment, you are one of the few. I whine with, rather then people deciding the engage in a debate, they decide to belittle eatchother with snide comments.

I have gone on record with my Opinion on hunting, so I will leave that alone.
I do believe that having more guns around, even legally, can make them easier to get.
Again, if his mother had not legally purchased a gun, or anyone around him had, how easy would it have been to get one?

I understand your point that if the mother didn't own guns it would have been much harder for the shooter to get any. However, I think you're missing the point that CT put in place state laws that their legislature felt made it very difficult for bad people to legally purchase guns and to ensure as best they could that only good people legally owned guns in CT. The mother met all the requirements. Short of CT banning private ownership of guns altogether CT did all it could to prevent guns from being available to bad people. If you don't want people like the mother to own guns then you either are advocating for a total ban or for the state to make determinations as to the mental health of everyone's children and restrict the rights of the parents upon the results of such evaluations. Both are probably too intrusive and extreme as to be politically feasible.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Do we know of any particular reasoning yet?

 SickSix wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thanks for the smart comment, you are one of the few. I whine with, rather then people deciding the engage in a debate, they decide to belittle eatchother with snide comments.

I have gone on record with my Opinion on hunting, so I will leave that alone.
I do believe that having more guns around, even legally, can make them easier to get.
Again, if his mother had not legally purchased a gun, or anyone around him had, how easy would it have been to get one?

That's a ridiculous question that ignores the key issue. The kid MURDERED HIS MOTHER. What are you going to do that would stop anyone who is willing to do that? No law fixes that.