All of tau(+enclaves) vs all craftworlds.

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**Psienesis**

One of the Craftworlds, I forget the name off the top of my head, might be Iyanden, is responsible for infecting Tomb Worlds with the Flayer Virus.

**EngulfedObject**

Brother-Redemptor wrote:

Spoiler:

Ok after giving it some thought I have to give it to the Eldar, not because I don’t like the Tau because I do or because they are weak because they defiantly are not but because they just have too many disadvantages in this fight.
Probably the most important is that the Tau are located in a fairly small piece of space and their important strategic locations are for the most part very static and easy to locate. It would be like a galactic scale version of shooting fish in a barrel. In comparison thanks to the Webway the Eldar’s Craftworlds can be on the other side of the galaxy safe from any Tau attack even if the Tau could find them. Because of this the Tau would have no idea where the Eldar are coming from and will be stuck defending their worlds without having the ability to strike back in kind.

Speaking of the Webway someone mentioned earlier that the Eldar can no longer create Webway tunnels. This is not entirely true; they have indeed lost the ability to create permanent tunnels through the Warp but they can still create temporary tunnels when needed. During the Eye of Terror Campaign the Ulthwe strike forces would use small portable Webway portals to open small tunnels through the Warp just large enough so that a Wraithlord could walk through without trouble. These devises are not even uncommon as they have been used in the Eldar path series and even appeared in the Daemonifuge comics. So yes the larger things like Wraithknights, titans or super heavy tanks would have to rely on the Eldar ships (as if that’s a disadvantage) to get them to the battlefield if there isn’t a Webway portal nearby but things like aspect warriors or fire prisms would have no problem suddenly appearing out of thin air.

Another important factor is the Eldar war mask. It doesn’t matter if the Eldar in his or her normal life is the nicest and gentlest person you could meet once they put on their war masks and adopt their war persona they become a stone hearted killer. Things like mercy and restraint don’t exist; it doesn’t matter if its men, women or children they will dispatch them with the same cold indifference. The Tau on the other hand will attempt to protect their civilians leaving them venerable and once again on the defence robbing them of any tactical flexibility.

There are many other problems the Tau will have to overcome but some have already been addressed so there really is no need for me to repeat them.

Ok now this part is just for fun so don’t take it too seriously. I know the title is only the Craftworlds vs the Tau but despite what some Black Library writers would like you to believe the Eldar do not make a habit of standing in neat lines politely waiting to be shot. As we all know the Eldar will always try to avoid any unnecessary conflicts (well at least the Craftworlders will) and if this war was to take place the Farseers would have seen it and judged that it was unavoidable and would have made preparations to stack the odds in their favour.

These are good points! A big advantage you bring up is how coldly and efficiently the Eldar can operate, whereas the Tau are a lot more naive and need the Ethereals for guidance (their war efforts also seem to collapse the moment the Ethereals are eliminated, much like Orks and their Warbosses). They are not above genocide when they deem it necessary, as they have demonstrated again and again.

EmpNortonII wrote:
EngulfedObject wrote:

I should also mention Gnosis Prime had a population of 50 billion and was heavily defended and reinforced with famous IG regiments. The Eldar can strike hard when they choose to do so.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gnosis_Prime

I think that Gnosis says less about how great the Eldar are and more about how incredibly gakky Imperial troops and PDF are.

I bring up Gnosis Prime as an example of the Eldar's willingless and ability to strike at hardened targets with minimal losses (some people in the thread have asked if Eldar are even able to fight in large scale battles - yes, and they are able to assault and depopulate planets). You also brought up how they were struggling with a single sept. Gnosis Prime is an example of a somewhat similar situation wherein the Eldar are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to massacre the planetary population.

It could be similarly argued that the whole of the Tau Empire struggles with a few Imperial backwater colonies... so no, I don't think the PDF and Imperial troops are incredibly gakky, unless the Tau Empire is too, by extension.

What do you say about the Tau's inability to strike back at the Eldar, especially outside of the immediate vicinity of their own realm? You make the Webway sound like a disadvantage...

Spoiler:

One last thing, for the sake of my sanity, could you address how the Tau would deal with an event like the Great Exodus? We're talking about at least 20 Craftworlds here, not six.

**oldzoggy**

There could be a more interesting situation then the supposed out of the blue all out war.

Suppose the Tau would like to do hold a cultural exchange program themselves to get even for the previous one.
The Eldar might not be that alarmed by this but the tables could turn if the tau manage to reverse engineer dark eldar technology including the web way portal tricks before the Eldar Tau war would start.

**Psienesis**

The Farseers would see that coming 40 Tau life-times before they thought of it.

**EngulfedObject**

oldzoggy wrote:
There could be a more interesting situation then the supposed out of the blue all out war.

Suppose the Tau would like to do hold a cultural exchange program themselves to get even for the previous one.
The Eldar might not be that alarmed by this but the tables could turn if the tau manage to reverse engineer dark eldar technology including the web way portal tricks before the Eldar Tau war would start.

Seriously? Somehow the Tau use a "cultural exchange program" to reverse engineer Dark Eldar tech and get better at navigating the Webway than the Eldar? Very likely, not to mention no Eldar faction would be interested in the slightest, as they already have superior tech and openly scoff at the "Greater Good" (there's already been encounters where the Tau have tried to recruit them to their cause. The Eldar laughed in their faces of course).

The Tau have nothing to offer the Eldar.

And yea, the Farseers would see through the "cultural exchange" ruse.

Oh, and we all know how the last "cultural exchange" between the DE and the Tau ended...

Spoiler:

**oldzoggy**

Well there is the Eldrad quote in the 3th edition codex. It seems that there will be a point when the tau technology would supersede eldar technology, and he still wants to protect them. So perhaps the Farseers would see that coming but they would simply not care enough since it could fit in their greater schemes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Tau have nothing to offer the Eldar.

That did not get in the way the previous exchange program

**EngulfedObject**

oldzoggy wrote:
Well there is the Eldrad quote in the 3th edition codex. It seems that there will be a point when the tau technology would supersede eldar technology, and he still wants to protect them. So perhaps the Farseers would see that coming but they would simply not care enough since it could fit in their greater schemes.

That's outside the scope of this thread. This is a scenario where they're pitting all their forces against each other, not where the Tau still fit into the Eldar's schemes and where the Eldar need to coddle them.

Plus how would the Tau gaining Eldar tech to use in a future war against the Eldar fit into Eldar schemes?

oldzoggy wrote:
That did not get in the way the previous exchange program

Scroll up to my edited post!

**oldzoggy**

Plus how would the Tau gaining Eldar tech to use in a future war against the Eldar fit into Eldar schemes?

I don't know i'm no farseer looking 1000's of years in the future while trying to manipulate it.
But this might just be the sort of twisted plan some troubled farseers might come up with if they really needed to make their plan work. The rapid development of the tau and suggestive quotes in the codexes of tau technology always hinted at eldar shenanigans to me.

It far fetched I know but still..

**YangusTheGreat**

Well there is the War of Dark Revelations, where the Tau attempted to attack the DARK Eldar after they killed some Ethereals and warriors (from Wiki):

"Mobilizing their fleet reserves from the nearby planet Rubikon, the Tau made course for Rakarth's fleet in orbit. However the Haemonculi fleet turned out to be nothing but mirages and empty space. Confused, the Tau then received a desperate message from Commander O'Shaev detailing that Rubikon was now under attack by Rakarth's forces. Now undefended, Rubikon was the subject of a massive bloodbath that saw even Supreme Overlord of Commorragh Asdrubael Vect himself and his Kabal of the Black Heart involved in the fray. The Prophets of Flesh deployed thousands of Wracks, Grotesques, and Pain Engines which overwhelmed the spirited Tau defense. When Tau reinforcements finally arrived, they found Rubikon to be a barren world, its populace stolen away to the horrors of Commorragh."

So essentially the Eldar would just do the same kind of thing.

**EmpNortonII**

raiden wrote:

Assume craftworlds are united, but still as they are, each led by their own council,

For tau, assume they are as they are, save the enclaves are working with/under the main faction again.

I have a point to raise.

Popular opinion has it that the Tau are secretly puppets of another power in 40k.

If, in fact, the Ethereals are secretly working under the umbrella of the Harlequins or Tzeentch, shouldn't we assume, then, that said head of faction counts as part of the Tau Empire?

**Psienesis**

Popular opinion is often wrong.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:
I have a point to raise.

Popular opinion has it that the Tau are secretly puppets of another power in 40k.

If, in fact, the Ethereals are secretly working under the umbrella of the Harlequins or Tzeentch, shouldn't we assume, then, that said head of faction counts as part of the Tau Empire?

I don't follow.

Head of what faction? How would the leaders of the Tau Empire secretly working for some other faction mean the other faction is part of the Tau Empire? That just means the Tau Empire is being manipulated for some other purpose.

Harlequins are Eldar, though not included in this scenario. If they were involved they would support the Eldar.

Personally, I don't believe the Tau are puppets, though I wouldn't rule out others having had a guiding hand in their development so far.

What about the previous points? (Great Exodus and all Tau eggs in one basket, inability to strike beyond their own turf, inability to maintain communications, inability to locate Eldar forces or to locate Webway portals, sub-par FTL travel, etc)

**EmpNortonII**

EngulfedObject wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
I have a point to raise.

Popular opinion has it that the Tau are secretly puppets of another power in 40k.

If, in fact, the Ethereals are secretly working under the umbrella of the Harlequins or Tzeentch, shouldn't we assume, then, that said head of faction counts as part of the Tau Empire?
I don't follow.

Head of what faction? How would the leaders of the Tau Empire secretly working for some other faction mean the other faction is part of the Tau Empire? That just means the Tau Empire is being manipulated for some other purpose.

Harlequins are Eldar, though not included in this scenario. If they were involved they would support the Eldar.

Personally, I don't believe the Tau are puppets, though I wouldn't rule out others having had a guiding hand in their development so far.

What about the previous points? (Great Exodus and all Tau eggs in one basket, inability to strike beyond their own turf, inability to maintain communications, inability to locate Eldar forces or to locate Webway portals, sub-par FTL travel, etc)

What's to say? If a Chapter of Space Marines can crack a craftworld then the planetary defenses of a sept world should be able to do the same no problem. if all the massed forced of the Eldar hit world after world, they get to do that until the Earth Caste set off one of their experimental sun-exploders and destroy the entire Eldar fleet in one go.

The Great Exodus was a unique event, probably expending some weapon the Eldar cannot mass-produce. After all, they sure as hell don't seem capable of wiping out hive fleets using the same method. We don't know if the Nicaussar or other psker-capable aliens have knowledge of the webway or are capable of similar feats to the Eldar.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:

What's to say? If a Chapter of Space Marines can crack a craftworld then the planetary defenses of a sept world should be able to do the same no problem. if all the massed forced of the Eldar hit world after world, they get to do that until the Earth Caste set off one of their experimental sun-exploders and destroy the entire Eldar fleet in one go.

Previous posts have already addressed this but to add to that:

Craftworld Idharae was
a) a relatively minor Craftworld
b) weakend fighting Hivefleet Naga
c) destroyed by the Invaders with the help of the Legion of the Damned. These guys are hardly normal marines.

Spoiler:

Where are the experimental sun-exploders you mention in the fluff?

EmpNortonII wrote:
The Great Exodus was a unique event, probably expending some weapon the Eldar cannot mass-produce. After all, they sure as hell don't seem capable of wiping out hive fleets using the same method. We don't know if the Nicaussar or other psker-capable aliens have knowledge of the webway or are capable of similar feats to the Eldar.

Why do they need to mass produce it? The one event had a radius of sixty light years. How big do you suppose the Tau Empire is exactly and do you really think this wouldn't severely cripple it?

What if it wasn't a weapon at all but instead all the psykers on the six Craftworlds working together? Or what's to say they can't use the weapon again or have other artifacts up their sleeve? Craftworld Iybraesil does nothing but retrieve doomsday weapons after all. And again, 20 something Craftworlds are probably capable of something even more deadly.

And a minor client race of Tau having the same knowledge of the Webway as the Eldar? There's nothing in fluff to suggest anything of the sort but there is fluff stating the Eldar mastered the Webway.

Spoiler:

Finally, wiping out suns would starve the Tyrannids but not destroy them. They're not dependent on a set of planets - they'd just move on to the next. But the Eldar have culled Imperial planets before to starve the Tyrannids. However, wiping out all the suns in such a radius in Tau space? Game over.

But ok, I can see how OP something that is but the odds are heavily stacked in the Eldar's favor even without the doomsday artifacts. Not least because the Tau can't strike beyond their region of space properly.

**EmpNortonII**

EngulfedObject wrote:

Where are the experimental sun-exploders you mention in the fluff?

Tau Codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

EngulfedObject wrote:
Why do they need to mass produce it?

If they don't have the capability to repeat the feat, it doesn't matter what they did in the past.

The Eldar are in decline. Just because they did something once does not mean they can do it again.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Tau Codex.

Sounds vaguely familiar. Have they actually used it on an enemy? By your logic they should have wiped out Hive Fleet Gorgon and the Ork Waaagh!s with sun exploders.

EmpNortonII wrote:
If they don't have the capability to repeat the feat, it doesn't matter what they did in the past.

The Eldar are in decline. Just because they did something once does not mean they can do it again.

What's to say they can't? Mass produce =/= being able to use again. Again, Craftworld Iybraesil specializes in retrieving ancient doomsday devices. And twenty something Craftworlds probably deadlier than six.

The event happened in 750.M41. How much do you suppose they've declined in that time? Edit: Actually, fair enough, Hive Fleet Kraken happens after this event, though the fluff has existed for longer. Still, that just means Iyanden is significantly weaker. There's the other Craftworlds to make up for that.

**EmpNortonII**

EngulfedObject wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Tau Codex.

Sounds vaguely familiar. Have they actually used it on an enemy? By your logic they should have wiped out Hive Fleet Gorgon and the Ork Waaagh!s with sun exploders.

EmpNortonII wrote:
If they don't have the capability to repeat the feat, it doesn't matter what they did in the past.

The Eldar are in decline. Just because they did something once does not mean they can do it again.
What's to say they can't? Mass produce =/= being able to use again. Again, Craftworld Iybraesil specializes in retrieving ancient doomsday devices. And twenty something Craftworlds probably deadlier than six.

It's new. Tau are the one race in the galaxy that regularly create new things... or create new things at all, really. The problem is that it's not yet portable enough to be practical, but since the Eldar are coming to the Tau, it doesn't need to be. Someone just needs to set it off at the last minute like that one Marine in the Starcraft video from the first game... and no more Eldar. *poof*

... and seriously, the Eldar would be using that gak right and left again tyranids... if they could. They don't, therefore...

Besides, the Blood Ravens and Trazyn have probably stolen every doomsday weapon Iybraesil had by now.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:

... and seriously, the Eldar would be using that gak right and left again tyranids... if they could. They don't, therefore...

Let's try: "The Tau would be using that gak right and left again tyranids... if they could. They don't, therefore..."

Look, I addressed this in my previous post. The Tau are also fighting in their own space. Why aren't they using their sun destroyers? Besides, the Eldar aren't sitting ducks. But the Tau are.

Also, do you see Iybraesil and Ulthwe fighting Tyrannids all the time? They're hanging around the Eye of Terror.

Here is my previous post, addressed to one of yours:

EngulfedObject wrote:
We have a very specific example of six Craftworlds uniting to wipe out all suns within sixty light years. That is stated in the rulebook. It doesn't mean a single Craftworld (Iyanden) can wipe out planets at will or is even willing to do so, especially over a minor conflict. It's the same reason the Imperium doesn't just go exterminatus on every planet they come across.

**EmpNortonII**

EngulfedObject wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:

... and seriously, the Eldar would be using that gak right and left again tyranids... if they could. They don't, therefore...

Let's try: "The Tau would be using that gak right and left again tyranids... if they could. They don't, therefore..."

Look, I addressed this in my previous post. The Tau are also fighting in their own space. Why aren't they using their sun destroyers? Besides, the Eldar aren't sitting ducks. But the Tau are.

Also, do you see Iybraesil and Ulthwe fighting Tyrannids all the time? They're hanging around the Eye of Terror.

Here is my previous post, addressed to one of yours:

EngulfedObject wrote:
We have a very specific example of six Craftworlds uniting to wipe out all suns within sixty light years. That is stated in the rulebook. It doesn't mean a single Craftworld (Iyanden) can wipe out planets at will or is even willing to do so, especially over a minor conflict. It's the same reason the Imperium doesn't just go exterminatus on every planet they come across.

I already said- currently, they're too difficult to move around to use as offensive weapons... at the moment. It's in the book. Why do I have to repeat myself to you? Clearly, such a weapon could only be used as a last resort when the world has already fallen... and so far as I know, no world with one has been attacked by Tyranids and been nearly over-run.

Wait a second- so, the last Black Crusade- the one where Eldrad bit the dust- the Eldar had a giant ship full of working doomsday weapons and forgot to use them? Why don't the Eldar, I don't know, start using them wholesale against Chaos?

**Formosa**

Ulthwe can't leave the space around the eye anyway, it's slowly being drawn into the eye, unless thats been retconned?

And I agree with the above point, if eldar have wide access to these super weapons, why don't they use them?

**EmpNortonII**

Formosa wrote:
Ulthwe can't leave the space around the eye anyway, it's slowly being drawn into the eye, unless thats been retconned?

I didn't know that. HA! The Tau haven't even started up their Crisis suits, and one of the most powerful craftworlds is already out of the fight!

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:

I already said- currently, they're too difficult to move around to use as offensive weapons... at the moment. It's in the book. Why do I have to repeat myself to you? Clearly, such a weapon could only be used as a last resort when the world has already fallen... and so far as I know, no world with one has been attacked by Tyranids and been nearly over-run.

Wait a second- so, the last Black Crusade- the one where Eldrad bit the dust- the Eldar had a giant ship full of working doomsday weapons and forgot to use them? Why don't the Eldar, I don't know, start using them wholesale against Chaos?

Riddle me this, how many Craftworlds were involved in the last Black Crusade? And don't you think snuffing out the suns around Cadia would be more detrimental to the Eldar and the Imperium?

So the Tau last resort is to blow up suns in their own space. Okay. And the Eldar, with all their Farseers gathered, would not see anything of the sort coming and would not hop back in the Webway. Also, they would park all their Craftworlds next to these suns for the Tau to blow up.

Brilliant plan.

(Again, this would take place within Tau Space. Let's think about that for a moment).

Formosa wrote:
Ulthwe can't leave the space around the eye anyway, it's slowly being drawn into the eye, unless thats been retconned?

And I agree with the above point, if eldar have wide access to these super weapons, why don't they use them?

That's actually true but they could still support the war effort by using the Webway, thereby striking the Tau on the other side of the galaxy. Or just move some of their forces onto other Craftworlds.

I think I addressed the super weapon thing sufficiently at this point. I'm just saying they could potentially do such a thing, especially if they gather all of their forces. The aforementioned example was six Craftworlds working together. This is every Craftworld working together.

The rest of the thread also discussed how the Eldar have the advantage even without these doomsday weapons.

**EmpNortonII**

EngulfedObject wrote:

So the Tau last resort is to blow up suns in their own space. Okay. And the Eldar, with all their Farseers gathered, would not see anything of the sort coming and would not hop back in the Webway. Also, they would park all their Craftworlds next to these suns for the Tau to blow up.

Brilliant plan.

Anything that keeps the Eldar from committing enough vessels to win a fight ends in a Tau victory.

The Tau can make new warships. I'm not sure the Eldar still can.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

EngulfedObject wrote:
The aforementioned example was six Craftworlds working together. This is every Craftworld working together.

Unless you can site a source that indicates it is an event they can repeat, I think we can safely assume that they can't, given that they haven't since. Six craftworlds, by your description, could effortlessly jump around the galaxy nuking tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos incursions before they gain traction.

... and yet, they don't...

Probably because they can't repeat the feat. One-time use of a now-gone Old One weapon. Easy explanation of what happened.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:

Anything that keeps the Eldar from committing enough vessels to win a fight ends in a Tau victory.

The Tau can make new warships. I'm not sure the Eldar still can.

You said these weapons are difficult to move around and impractical to use on the offensive. The Eldar aren't going to wait for the Tau superweapon to get in position. The Eldar doomsday weapon on the other hand involved the Eldar showing up out of nowhere and disappearing again.

Who says all Eldar Craftworlds need to be in one place or else the Tau win? Are Tau worlds so incredibly difficult to assault? So Eldar can take on Tomb Worlds and Imperial worlds but the Tau are in another league? Again, Gnosis Prime - no actual Craftworld needed for the assault, just its forces.

And a declining population now means the Eldar can't build new ships? If you read about the Craftworlds, you'll notice its mentioned they've grown up to ten times their original size since the Fall. So yes, Craftworlds can be expanded upon and new ships can probably be built. Dark Eldar build ships too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

EmpNortonII wrote:

Unless you can site a source that indicates it is an event they can repeat, I think we can safely assume that they can't, given that they haven't since. Six craftworlds, by your description, could effortlessly jump around the galaxy nuking tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos incursions before they gain traction.

... and yet, they don't...

Probably because they can't repeat the feat. One-time use of a now-gone Old One weapon. Easy explanation of what happened.

There is no such source as the fluff will never explicitly spell something out like that. I'm going from the assumption that
a) there is a Craftworld (Iybraesil) dedicated to finding doomsday devices
b) such devices do exist
c) the Eldar have used it in the fluff
d) it might have not been a weapon but rather the mass gathering of the Craftworlds and psykers/infinity circuits of the Craftworlds
e) there's no reason to assume they can never do something like that again, and finally
f) there's now twenty+ Craftworlds working together, so more than the six involved in that event.

I'm pretty sure the Tau experimental sun exploding thing only mentions they've tried it out. That's about it.

And I have repeatedly explained why they haven't, or can't, or won't hop around popping those devices. HOWEVER, in this HYPOTHETICAL example, where NO OTHER FACTIONS are involved, then YES, we should at least consider this factor.

**Orblivion**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Ulthwe can't leave the space around the eye anyway, it's slowly being drawn into the eye, unless thats been retconned?

I didn't know that. HA! The Tau haven't even started up their Crisis suits, and one of the most powerful craftworlds is already out of the fight!

Not true, Ulthwe now orbits the Eye of Terror. Besides, the craftworld itself does not need to move in order to deploy the full might of its military force through the webway. They have an abundance of Seers and Warlocks in Ulthwe, something the Tau simply have no counter to.

**Grey Templar**

Orblivion wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Ulthwe can't leave the space around the eye anyway, it's slowly being drawn into the eye, unless thats been retconned?

I didn't know that. HA! The Tau haven't even started up their Crisis suits, and one of the most powerful craftworlds is already out of the fight!

Not true, Ulthwe now orbits the Eye of Terror. Besides, the craftworld itself does not need to move in order to deploy the full might of its military force through the webway. They have an abundance of Seers and Warlocks in Ulthwe, something the Tau simply have no counter to.

And the parameters of this discussion assume its every craftworld attacking the Tau. This obviously assumes this conflict is happening in a vacuum and other events which are going on don't factor in. Ulthwe can participate just fine.

**AtoMaki**

EngulfedObject wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Tau experimental sun exploding thing only mentions they've tried it out. That's about it.

Not even that. The Tau didn't want to detonate those suns at all, they wanted to gather energy from them. But they accidentally made them turn supernova instead, and they have no idea how (that's what they are trying to figure out now).

Nowadays, Tau experimental projects have a tendency to backfire (like the fusion reactor that blew up a moon), work haphazardly (the paradox bombs), stuck in experimental phase forever (the XV22 stealth suit), or just not do what the Tau want them to do (Stormsurge).

**Furyou Miko**

EmpNortonII wrote:

Popular opinion has it that the Tau are secretly puppets of another power in 40k.

If, in fact, the Ethereals are secretly working under the umbrella of the Harlequins or Tzeentch, shouldn't we assume, then, that said head of faction counts as part of the Tau Empire?

Wow, stop press! NortonII just basically admitted that the Tau need the help of the Harlequins or Tzeentch to win!

**EmpNortonII**

Furyou Miko wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:

Popular opinion has it that the Tau are secretly puppets of another power in 40k.

If, in fact, the Ethereals are secretly working under the umbrella of the Harlequins or Tzeentch, shouldn't we assume, then, that said head of faction counts as part of the Tau Empire?

Wow, stop press! NortonII just basically admitted that the Tau need the help of the Harlequins or Tzeentch to win!

It sure wouldn't hurt to have the 'quins sabotage the Eldar in the webway or have Tzeentch give the Nicaussar a map of them or an exact timeline of the Eldar invasion.

**EngulfedObject**

EmpNortonII wrote:
It sure wouldn't hurt to have the 'quins sabotage the Eldar in the webway or have Tzeentch give the Nicaussar a map of them or an exact timeline of the Eldar invasion.

Why in the name of Cegorach would the Harlequins turn on the Eldar to save the Tau? Are you aware the Harlequins are Eldar too? Sabotage the Eldar in the Webway? Really? You don't think that's extremely far-fetched?

The Harlequins also protect the Black Library, which is... (*gasp*) a Craftworld. And Cegorach is an Eldar deity. There's no valid fluff reason why the Harlequins would support the Tau over the rest of the Craftworlds.

And Tzeentch giving the Nicaussar a map of the Eldar's plans? That's just absurd. The Tau are warp-impaired and probably beneath Tzeentch's notice.

AtoMaki wrote:
Not even that. The Tau didn't want to detonate those suns at all, they wanted to gather energy from them. But they accidentally made them turn supernova instead, and they have no idea how (that's what they are trying to figure out now).

Nowadays, Tau experimental projects have a tendency to backfire (like the fusion reactor that blew up a moon), work haphazardly (the paradox bombs), stuck in experimental phase forever (the XV22 stealth suit), or just not do what the Tau want them to do (Stormsurge).

Yea, I think I remember reading about this in the Tau codex.

The Tau are certainly working on new tech but the Eldar are already at a level where they don't have to anymore.