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How important do you think combos like this will be in the new year?

obviously it's all speculation atm. I haven't tested it yet.

It certainly seems like a big boost for S&V

This is how I understand that card

It cloaks you as an action, before you attack, which prevents you from attacking.

So it's main usage is defensively, when you don't plan on attacking. So, when someone is on your tail.

When used on Low PS ships, you need to assume/plan that your move will be one that will keep you from being able to attack.

While when used on High PS ships, you know if it will or won't and you can gauge how many attacks will be coming. However, on High PS ships, especially mobile ones. You could instead use that advantage to arc dodge.

So as a pure defensive tool, I don't see it being very useful.

My take would be to cloak while out of range and decloak once you well positioned for an attack

Not sure it's better than glitterstim though

I think the cloak is going to be marginal at best. You can't shoot while cloaked, you don't have ACD to allow you to shoot at high PS and immediately re-cloak, and taking turns off to cloak tends to mean wasting a ship. IMO the most common use is going to be cloaking on turn 1 and using an immediate de-cloak to set up your turn 2 shot, essentially turning it into a one-shot super boost. Worth it? Maybe. But it's facing some tough competition from other illicit upgrades.

I didn't really consider the maneuver assisting properties it might have, but it still holds the fact that you must spend a turn without attacking to utilize it.

I don't even think that Scum even have any pilots similar to Turr Phrennir that can generate an action after attacking to combo with PTL to activate this.

Tho that's also probably why Scum are the ones to gain such an upgrade instead of Imperial.

Altho seriously! The Slave-1 has cloaking technology equipped on it!

 Talamare wrote:
I didn't really consider the maneuver assisting properties it might have, but it still holds the fact that you must spend a turn without attacking to utilize it.

Yeah, but on turn 1 you don't get to shoot anyway. It's much harder to get anything out of it on later turns, but with that 1/4 chance of failure it's not like you can count on it much anyway.

Unless the faction gets an upgrade or title comparable to ACD I'm not sure it will see play beyond some fringe lists, as for the most part Glitterstim seems stronger

I'm hoping either Zuckuss or Misthunter can do some cloak related hi-jinx.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Unless the faction gets an upgrade or title comparable to ACD I'm not sure it will see play beyond some fringe lists, as for the most part Glitterstim seems stronger

I'm hoping either Zuckuss or Misthunter can do some cloak related hi-jinx.

They'll have access to Stygium Particle Accelerator, giving whatever ship has Cloaking Device a free evade.

Also, I agree that the Mist Hunter will have some sort of shenanigans to make this upgrade better.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Unless the faction gets an upgrade or title comparable to ACD I'm not sure it will see play beyond some fringe lists, as for the most part Glitterstim seems stronger

I'm hoping either Zuckuss or Misthunter can do some cloak related hi-jinx.

They'll have access to Stygium Particle Accelerator, giving whatever ship has Cloaking Device a free evade.

Also, I agree that the Mist Hunter will have some sort of shenanigans to make this upgrade better.

I'd totally forgotten about that card, you might be able to pull some tricks with that and PTL,but thats piling a lot of upgrades onto one ship and all for nowt if the cloak clunks out in the End Step

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
but thats piling a lot of upgrades onto one ship and all for nowt if the cloak clunks out in the End Step

Exactly. Cloak and SPA is a lot of points and upgrade slots for something that gives you a pretty marginal benefit and has a 25% chance of permanently breaking every time you use it. I could maybe justify taking the cloak itself, but trying to make any kind of combo with it is just a bad idea.

A couple of people in my club have been toying with the idea of the Starviper, with the cloak mod and maybe SPA. I reckon auto thrusters would suit it better than the SPA though

Cloak is cheap - yes, there's a risk of it breaking, but it's nice provided you don't go nuts on points, and even if it 'breaks down' at the end of the turn, you can always choose to decloak rather than just lose the token.

My personal suggestion is to consider it a 2 point engine upgrade that might break before you get to use it.

A lot of people use a filler/distraction/kamikaze by taking N'Dru Suhlak with Lone Wolf and Proton Rockets. He's cheap and delivers a surprisingly hefty blow. Adding a cloaking device is quite nice - 4 agility with a reroll, especially at range 3, makes him nigh untouchable, and even if it burns out it does so after everyone's fired - so it's safe to use your decloak to zip [2] futher forwards.

it's not devastating - it's essentially a 'knockoff' TIE phantom that's essentially 1 use. But he's also only 25 points, meaning he can swap out for one of the various Y-wing builds that scum do so well (autoblaster/unhinged/engine, R4/twin laser turret, ion/unhinged/BTL-A4) and you can have a pack of three Y-wings with N'Dru as a flanker.

The thing is that even after he's shot his proton rockets and blown out his cloak, he's still a fairly capable fighter - essentially a PS7 X-wing with one less hull but a one die reroll on attack and defence.

locarno24 wrote:
A lot of people use a filler/distraction/kamikaze by taking N'Dru Suhlak with Lone Wolf and Proton Rockets. He's cheap and delivers a surprisingly hefty blow. Adding a cloaking device is quite nice - 4 agility with a reroll, especially at range 3, makes him nigh untouchable, and even if it burns out it does so after everyone's fired - so it's safe to use your decloak to zip [2] futher forwards.

The problem is that this option sucks compared to the cluster missile + lone wolf + glitterstim option. Why settle for one 5-dice shot at range 1 when you can have two 4-dice shots at range 1-2? If you're taking N'Dru with other missile + illicit upgrades then you're doing it wrong.

 Peregrine wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
A lot of people use a filler/distraction/kamikaze by taking N'Dru Suhlak with Lone Wolf and Proton Rockets. He's cheap and delivers a surprisingly hefty blow. Adding a cloaking device is quite nice - 4 agility with a reroll, especially at range 3, makes him nigh untouchable, and even if it burns out it does so after everyone's fired - so it's safe to use your decloak to zip [2] futher forwards.

The problem is that this option sucks compared to the cluster missile + lone wolf + glitterstim option. Why settle for one 5-dice shot at range 1 when you can have two 4-dice shots at range 1-2? If you're taking N'Dru with other missile + illicit upgrades then you're doing it wrong.

If you're dictating what other people have to do in order to have fun, then you're definaltey doing it wrong...

The problem is that this option sucks compared to the cluster missile + lone wolf + glitterstim option. Why settle for one 5-dice shot at range 1 when you can have two 4-dice shots at range 1-2? If you're taking N'Dru with other missile + illicit upgrades then you're doing it wrong.

If you're dictating what other people have to do in order to have fun, then you're definaltey doing it wrong...

He's coming at this from a competitive point of view. Obviously there's some fun stuff you can do in a casual setting - taking a cool and interesting loadout and having fun is "doing it right". But if you take that same cool and interesting loadout to a tournament... and lose every game because of it's a bad loadout, then you're not really doing it right.

I had a bit of fun using Guri+adv sensors+cloaking with Fett+Intelligence Agent. The decloak maneuver and the StarViper's actions give you a lot of options for positioning Guri, and you can peak at one of the enemy Ace's dial ahead of time. It's cool if you can get it to work, but it's a lot of investment.

Of course, you always have to ask yourself "would I just be better off taking glitterstim?". I do think that the cloaking device will see some niche use, because it does provide some unique capabilities compared to some of the other illicit slots. The main issue is that the cloak mechanic is kind of awkward and iffy for the scum ships who can use it.

You can also use Experimental Interface with Cloaking Device.

I feel the HWK-290 would work well with the stealth device, they're pilot abilities can be used while cloaked and you have turrets that are range 1-2 and autoblaster turret which is range 1.

You can use stealth device for survivability and to close to range 1 or range 1-2 for your turrets.

It's going to be a very handy ability for a couple of ships, the rest won't find it very useful.

I think it's best use is on talonbane with engine upgrade and either stay on target, push the limit, or expert handling. Essentially you give yourself a ton of maneuvering options to take full use of his ability. Adding on that he doubles his defense at range 3, clever positioning could set you up with 6 defense dice for a turn. On a PS 9 fighter that relies on positioning so much, its an excellent upgrade. Especially so if you can get him to the endgame with it. Him going 1 v 1 with a cloaking device in his back pocket will be a nasty thing to go up against.

People are too used to relying on ACD to realize how good this ability will be right now, but once it's out I imagine it'll only be a matter of time till players start realizing how handy it is for keeping talonbane on the board. It's not for that turn you have that perfect shot, its for that turn where you more than likely will get shot to pieces.

And yes, I know all about fickle green dice, I still think it's a good buy. It doubles his survivability on its own and triples his odds at range 3. That's a hell of an ability. Not to mention the decloak move next turn, which for a ship with only a straight 4 and no hard 3's helps quite a bit.

That being said its definitely a card you have to build around. You definitely won't see this thing tossed on random ships because you have 2pts to spare like feedback array and glitterstim are.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
That being said its definitely a card you have to build around.

And this is the fatal problem. You have to build around it, but you can't depend on it because of the 25% chance to fail every time you use it. Build-around abilities need to be consistent to justify the investment, and this one isn't.

I feel the HWK-290 would work well with the stealth device, they're pilot abilities can be used while cloaked and you have turrets that are range 1-2 and autoblaster turret which is range 1.

You can use stealth device for survivability and to close to range 1 or range 1-2 for your turrets.

Probably. Torkil Mux can practically justify himself with his pilot ability, regardless of whether his shots ever actually hit anyone.

 Peregrine wrote:

And this is the fatal problem. You have to build around it, but you can't depend on it because of the 25% chance to fail every time you use it. Build-around abilities need to be consistent to justify the investment, and this one isn't.

Very true point, you cant really build around the cloaking device because it is unreliable, but there are some cases where it might work very well. It would work well on cheap ships that can use the extra defence dice well and can use the decloak movement to its advantage, and still not be a points sink when the cloaking device fails.

Thats why I think the HWK-290 would do best, especially since their pilot abilities can still be used, and other illicits are not that great with them.

Talonblane has glitterstim and the starviper would be a good platform to build around the cloaking device but the ship alone is really expensive.

The headhunter wouldn't be anything great with the cloaking device but they are cheap, however N'dru Suhlak, glitterstim and cluster missiles is just gravy vs cloaking device.

and sadly the y-wing and M3-A have no Illicits...

But I assume the misthunter will be the best with cloaking device (it better...).

 Peregrine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
That being said its definitely a card you have to build around.

And this is the fatal problem. You have to build around it, but you can't depend on it because of the 25% chance to fail every time you use it. Build-around abilities need to be consistent to justify the investment, and this one isn't.

I just value it as odds are it'll burn out after one use, giving me extra defense and potentially a free super boost or barrel roll to get the other guy off my tail. Much like inertial dampners, its not just the use itself that's handy, but the unpredictability it brings that makes it strong. I essentially treat it as a one use and every turn afterwards as gravy.

And you can depend on it, its not like it immediately burns out after it activates, you're guaranteed to get one shooting phase of use out of it no matter what. And on a ship like talonbane, mathwise its a better defensive investment than glitterstim if my math is right, its giving you a 6/8 chance to add another dodge on top of your other two dice youre rolling (if you have no focus) This opposed to two dice base that are only getting an additional 1/2 chance for another dodge from the glitterstim effect.

I just think you're not fuly grasping the capabilities of this card because it doesn't work exactly like a phantom. People made similar mistakes when they looked at inertial dampners and it didn't take long for people to realize it's probably one of the strongest illicits out there. And just like inertial dampners, its that unpredictability that makes it so strong. Until you use it, your opponent will have to constantly wonder when you're going to activate the cloak, and where you could end up once you decloak it. Given the very nice dial the kihraxz has, it'll be very capable of some crazy moves combined with that decloak move.

Scum lives and dies off of curveballs and breaking rules in this game, and this upgrade plays to it perfectly. You just need to be smart about how you use it. Mark my words, after its been out for a few months there will be some sort of build that comes out abusing this card to the fullest. Will it take top table at worlds? Who knows, but I'll reckon you'll see it on tables quite a bit

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I just value it as odds are it'll burn out after one use, giving me extra defense and potentially a free super boost or barrel roll to get the other guy off my tail. Much like inertial dampners, its not just the use itself that's handy, but the unpredictability it brings that makes it strong. I essentially treat it as a one use and every turn afterwards as gravy.

Sure, but that's not "build around" like you said. That's having a one-shot effect that might be useful at some point, a little extra bonus on top of a ship that's already good.

And on a ship like talonbane, mathwise its a better defensive investment than glitterstim if my math is right, its giving you a 6/8 chance to add another dodge on top of your other two dice youre rolling (if you have no focus) This opposed to two dice base that are only getting an additional 1/2 chance for another dodge from the glitterstim effect.

The difference is that you can use glitterstim on offense as well. Target lock and/or boost for your action(s), use glitterstim for a focus. Now you've hopefully got 5 dice with focus + TL as well as a focus on every defense roll. The cloak adds more defense, but it ONLY adds defense, and it does it at the cost of an action (so you can't use it if you bump, take stress, etc).

People made similar mistakes when they looked at inertial dampners and it didn't take long for people to realize it's probably one of the strongest illicits out there.

Did this really happen? I know I understood that it was a very strong card, especially for the cheap point cost, as soon as the preview went up. And I don't remember seeing any significant skepticism about it, other than maybe "z-95s should take feedback array instead".

And just like inertial dampners, its that unpredictability that makes it so strong. Until you use it, your opponent will have to constantly wonder when you're going to activate the cloak, and where you could end up once you decloak it. Given the very nice dial the kihraxz has, it'll be very capable of some crazy moves combined with that decloak move.

But then you lose most of that advantage by turning off your guns as soon as you start to set up your unpredictability. Inertial damps are great because you can use them to set up a shot, and the mere threat of hitting the brakes to set up a fatal shot makes your opponent fly very carefully until you use them. And, unlike the cloak, you get the effect immediately instead of having to wait until next turn (assuming you survive). A cloak won't get you out of arc when you desperately need to fix a maneuvering mistake, damps often will.

Fair points on the trade off vs defense and survivability. I feel it's a good trade since any ship with only two defense dice I worry about, but I can get why others would prefer glitterstim.

As for iniertial dampners, I'm pretttyyyy sure a lot of people didn't understand its utility at first. May have been my local meta though, they were very beer and pretzels and didn't see the point to it. I remember the first time I broke it out on boba fett they were not happy.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I feel it's a good trade since any ship with only two defense dice I worry about, but I can get why others would prefer glitterstim.

Two defense dice is kind of fragile, but the best way to keep a ship alive is to kill anything that might have wanted to shoot at it. Every red die removed from the table is effectively an automatic evade result on your green dice. If you're shutting off your guns to add green dice then you aren't removing those red dice, and the extra greens you get are balanced out by the fact that you have to roll them more often. Glitterstim is great despite the lower defense bonus because it helps you with the green dice while simultaneously keeping some enemy red dice from rolling at all.

Now, the "tank a ton and stay alive" strategy can work with a rare few ships, but you're talking about stuff like Fel or PTL Corran where you can stack up such absurd amounts of defense and arc dodging that even if you're not rolling any red dice for a few turns your opponent can't really do much to take advantage of it. But the cloak doesn't give you that level of defense.

As for iniertial dampners, I'm pretttyyyy sure a lot of people didn't understand its utility at first. May have been my local meta though, they were very beer and pretzels and didn't see the point to it. I remember the first time I broke it out on boba fett they were not happy.

Yeah, sounds like a "casual meta" thing. It's a pretty obviously powerful effect if you understand the game well enough.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
As for iniertial dampners, I'm pretttyyyy sure a lot of people didn't understand its utility at first. May have been my local meta though, they were very beer and pretzels and didn't see the point to it. I remember the first time I broke it out on boba fett they were not happy.

Yeah, sounds like a "casual meta" thing. It's a pretty obviously powerful effect if you understand the game well enough.

To quote one non-scum player I used it against "The does it do?!?"

 Peregrine wrote:

And this is the fatal problem. You have to build around it, but you can't depend on it because of the 25% chance to fail every time you use it. Build-around abilities need to be consistent to justify the investment, and this one isn't.

I'm probably being dumb again but... Isn't there only one focus icon on an attack die? So a 13% chance?

 Compel wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

And this is the fatal problem. You have to build around it, but you can't depend on it because of the 25% chance to fail every time you use it. Build-around abilities need to be consistent to justify the investment, and this one isn't.

I'm probably being dumb again but... Isn't there only one focus icon on an attack die? So a 13% chance?

Nope. There are three hits, two eyeballs, two blanks, and one critical result.

I'm starting to see why I came last in that X-Wing tourney...