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So in Malice's lore it says he grows in power when the other gods do, how does the other gods growing in power make him more powerful? Also if that were true wouldn't he be a extremely powerful god?

As with Zen, he is all things and no things - he is all of the gods, and yet opposes the gods.

He's just Chaotic like that.

Who is Malice?

Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Who is Malice?

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Who is Malice?

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Yes, thats the joke. Malal "doesn't" exist

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice

The wikia is very bad for getting background. It contains large amounts of fanfiction and doesn't specify what is and isn't from official publications. Lexicanum is better but still dubious.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice

The wikia is very bad for getting background. It contains large amounts of fanfiction and doesn't specify what is and isn't from official publications. Lexicanum is better but still dubious.

One could just find the short story with the sons in it

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice

The wikia is very bad for getting background. It contains large amounts of fanfiction and doesn't specify what is and isn't from official publications. Lexicanum is better but still dubious.

I know that the wikia is not the best source, but it is the most convenient. But I would hope they would at least police their articles to keep fanfic out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Who is Malice?

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Yes, thats the joke. Malal "doesn't" exist

Ya I know he isn't considered to be canon exactly, but it is still interesting to speculate and discuss none the less. And what short story are you talking about also?

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice

The wikia is very bad for getting background. It contains large amounts of fanfiction and doesn't specify what is and isn't from official publications. Lexicanum is better but still dubious.

I know that the wikia is not the best source, but it is the most convenient. But I would hope they would at least police their articles to keep fanfic out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Who is Malice?

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Yes, thats the joke. Malal "doesn't" exist

Ya I know he isn't considered to be canon exactly, but it is still interesting to speculate and discuss none the less. And what short story are you talking about also?

Sons of Malice in the Space Marine Omnibus... cant remember the exact story name

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice

The wikia is very bad for getting background. It contains large amounts of fanfiction and doesn't specify what is and isn't from official publications. Lexicanum is better but still dubious.

I know that the wikia is not the best source, but it is the most convenient. But I would hope they would at least police their articles to keep fanfic out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Who is Malice?

I'll throw up some links for you Tactical in case you want to look into his back round.


Article on Malice (Formely Known as Malal before a IP dispute and he had to be made anew and was named Malice):

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malice

And here is the article of a known traitor Space Marine Chapter that follow him:

- http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the hipster god that you've probably never heard of.

He sounds like he's never existed... Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did this a while ago

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Yes, thats the joke. Malal "doesn't" exist

Ya I know he isn't considered to be canon exactly, but it is still interesting to speculate and discuss none the less. And what short story are you talking about also?

Sons of Malice in the Space Marine Omnibus... cant remember the exact story name

Huh interesting to know, I may look into it just to find out its name.

Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - The Labyrinth by Richard Ford (it's cited as a source on the wikia page)

I would note however that Andy Hoare - who wrote the Renegade Sons Index Astartes article - once stated in a discussion in the Oldhammer Facebook Group that Malice isn't a god and that the author of said story made a mistake in claiming so.

 Gashrog wrote:
Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - The Labyrinth by Richard Ford (it's cited as a source on the wikia page)

I would note however that Andy Hoare - who wrote the Renegade Sons Index Astartes article - once stated in a discussion in the Oldhammer Facebook Group that Malice isn't a god and that the author of said story made a mistake.

"Isnt" a god. Why would Black Lib publish it if it wasnt 100% going to be canon?

Same reason LucasBooks published countless Expanded Universe titles even though George Lucas himself stated he didn't regard it as canon: To make money.

 Gashrog wrote:
Same reason LucasBooks published countless Expanded Universe titles even though George Lucas himself stated he didn't regard it as canon: To make money.

Malal was "a god" way back in WHFB

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:
Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - The Labyrinth by Richard Ford (it's cited as a source on the wikia page)

I would note however that Andy Hoare - who wrote the Renegade Sons Index Astartes article - once stated in a discussion in the Oldhammer Facebook Group that Malice isn't a god and that the author of said story made a mistake.

"Isnt" a god. Why would Black Lib publish it if it wasnt 100% going to be canon?

Almost nothing in 40k is "canon", regardless of source.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:
Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - The Labyrinth by Richard Ford (it's cited as a source on the wikia page)

I would note however that Andy Hoare - who wrote the Renegade Sons Index Astartes article - once stated in a discussion in the Oldhammer Facebook Group that Malice isn't a god and that the author of said story made a mistake.

"Isnt" a god. Why would Black Lib publish it if it wasnt 100% going to be canon?

Almost nothing in 40k is "canon", regardless of source.

So Kaldor Draigo may or may not exist?

The way the IP is designed to work, what is or isn't "true" is entirely up to you. If you want Kaldor Draigo to exist in your view of the 40K universe, he does. If not, he doesn't.

Everything that is published for 40K is a telling of myths, legends, half-truths, rumors, propaganda and stories grown in the re-telling.

In my view of the setting, for example, the Emperor definitely has a name. He has a "natural" appearance (or, rather, he did, prior to the whole dying and ascending to the Golden Throne bit). He occasionally sends one of the thousands and thousands of shards that make up his consciousness out into the galaxy to incarnate as some hero or another on some tiny, backwater world that is about to become Extremely Important (for reasons known only to him) to lead his people to victory against Chaos.

If you happen to meet the Emperor somehow, and have a conversation, you would find that the Emperor is an extremely charismatic, sociopathic donkey-cave. Comes with being the most powerful psyker to ever live who, through wit and guile, as well as outright cheating, elbowed his way to a VIP spot at the table with all the other gods (yes, there are other gods, not just the Ruinous Powers and Gork and Mork. Thousands of gods, all embroiled in the Great Game, the Great and Secret Show).

Why? Because I'm a big fan of H.P. Lovecraft, Michael Moorcock, Neil Gaiman and Clive Barker.

Just because Sons of Malice venerate Malice as a God doesn't make him so.

Same as chaos cultists deifying a Helbrute doesn't make that dreadnought a god either.

 Gashrog wrote:
Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - The Labyrinth by Richard Ford (it's cited as a source on the wikia page)

I would note however that Andy Hoare - who wrote the Renegade Sons Index Astartes article - once stated in a discussion in the Oldhammer Facebook Group that Malice isn't a god and that the author of said story made a mistake in claiming so.

Thank you for the title Gashrog, saved me the trouble of looking for it. Also if he is not a god, than what is he? Is he some type of being with a standing between that of a Greater Daemon and a actual god and if so would that make him some type of daemon in general. If that is the case perhaps he was created in a way similar to the Dark Gods, he started out as a mass of energy and emotion and eventually took actual form into the powerful type of Daemon he is now. Daemons are usually created from their patron god but maybe it possible for a Daemon to come along like I stated above and not be aligned or made by any of the gods, thoughts anyone?

Andy Hoare said the following:
"Malice isn't a god, it's just the name of a warband who are especially malicious!"
"They also starred in a a BL short a while back where the writer mistakenly referred to Malice as the god the warband worships."

My reading of that is that Malice isn't a god because there is no Malice at all, just like the Sons of Anarchy motorcycle gang don't worship an entity known as Anarchy.

I would say Malice as portrayed in the story is a god, because it's pretty much Malal with a name change, but Andy Hoare's comments plus the fact the author seemingly hasn't written anything for Black Library since suggests this was a case of an author being given too much leeway by an inattentive editor..

At the end of the story an entity that the Sons of Malice call Malice is summoned.It possesses one of the main story characters.

Malice could be a lesser god or perhaps a daemon of Malal or something else entirely.

Way back when, IIRC, GW flirted with the notion that Malal and the emperor were the same. Malal was effectively the warp presence of the emperor. Malal was the God seeking to destroy all four chaos = emperor seeking to destroy all four chaos gods. The other theory was that Malal was a sort of echo of the emperor. Not literally him, but created by the emperor's actions indirectly.

I always liked this idea.

This is all my own blend of crazy so don't take this as officil in any reguard.

I've always consider Malal to be born of self destruction. Its why he was so powerful, all roads through chaos lead to the same end, consuming oneself. Wether by charging headlong into a rain of bolter fire with nothing but a knife as you have become nothng but a frothing madman, or dabbling with magic so far beyond you the resulting spell tears you apart because your hubris and thirst for knowledge is unslakable, the end is the same. You destroy yourself.

Hence why the other gods cast him out through a combined effort. With all four of the ruinous powers feeding him through there games there was no other way to tip the scales.

Which makes it even more fun to imagine Malal imbedded hmself in the grey knights, the single most self destructive and chaos hating force in the empire. Whoa to the grey knights when they finally open that box at the end of time and read Malals name alloud once more.

Aguth the Blooded wrote:
So in Malice's lore it says he grows in power when the other gods do, how does the other gods growing in power make him more powerful? Also if that were true wouldn't he be a extremely powerful god?

That was Malal, not Malice.
Malice is a homage to Malal, but not intended to be him or to inherit everything form him.
Malice isn't even a god in the same sense as Malal was or Khorne is, as he was summoned into the Material universe and Chaos Gods cannot leave the warp.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
At the end of the story an entity that the Sons of Malice call Malice is summoned.It possesses one of the main story characters.

Malice could be a lesser god or perhaps a daemon of Malal or something else entirely.

Even if he was not intended to be a god he certainly seems like one or at the very least a powerful daemon that has earned the faith of some. If he is summoned into real space like some have pointed out that probably would not make him a god in the sense the way the big four are at least, because gods can only go places that have been brought into the imaterium or their realms from what I know. He could be a greater daemon as you say or something greater but not completely in the realm of a true god, something doesn't have to be a full blown god to be worshiped necessarily, in the book Blood Gorgons by Henry Zou the Blood Gorgons patron is a powerful greater daemon. So perhaps Malice is striving for full godhood.


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Animus wrote:

Aguth the Blooded wrote:
So in Malice's lore it says he grows in power when the other gods do, how does the other gods growing in power make him more powerful? Also if that were true wouldn't he be a extremely powerful god?

That was Malal, not Malice.
Malice is a homage to Malal, but not intended to be him or to inherit everything form him.
Malice isn't even a god in the same sense as Malal was or Khorne is, as he was summoned into the Material universe and Chaos Gods cannot leave the warp.

Also isn't Malice supposed to have many of the same powers/attributes as Malal though?

This thread is pointless and confusing, having contradicted itself several times.

The Outcast is pleased!

Aguth the Blooded wrote:
Also isn't Malice supposed to have many of the same powers/attributes as Malal though?

He does have some, as he is a homage.
But that does not mean he is or is meant to be Malal in all but name.

This is the sort of thing Malal does
(skip to 10:28)