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The known rules for new tau commander.

how would a swooping fmc work in a unit.

Monstrous creatures cannot join units can they, and characters cannot join them?

I think it only goes one way: MCs can join units, just not be joined by characters. But don't quote me on that.

"Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. They can join other Independent Characters, though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"

So, I guess a MC IC could join a unit, as long as that unit he's joining contains no other ICs...

By raw as long as the monstrous IC joins last, you could have a unit with a ton of IC's and one monster.

Probably not the intent though.

Woah, hold on a tick....
- Commander enters Swooping Mode
- Commander ends his move within 2" of a unit
- Commander joins that unit
- All shots that target that unit must be resolved as Snap Shots. :O

Hard to hit:
"A Swooping Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialized weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule."

Seems like the only requirement for "Hard to Hit" to proc is that a swooping monstrous creature is being shot at.

Bojazz wrote:
Woah, hold on a tick....
- Commander enters Swooping Mode
- Commander ends his move within 2" of a unit
- Commander joins that unit
- All shots that target that unit must be resolved as Snap Shots. :O

Hard to hit:
"A Swooping Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialized weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule."

Seems like the only requirement for "Hard to Hit" to proc is that a swooping monstrous creature is being shot at.

IC becomes part of the unit, not vice versa. So you are shooting at a non-FMC unit at that point.

You're shooting at a non-FMC unit that contains a FMC. It can be argued that a FMC is still being targeted. This is getting back to the "preferred enemy vs mixed unit types" argument though, so maybe I just won't get into that.

Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.

And for the Hard to Hit argument, 'Independent Characters and Ongoing Effects' in the rulebook. "If an Independent Character joins a unit... benefits and penalties are not shared." Hard to Hit is a benefit of an Ongoing Effect.

eonder if he can take fusion blades fro menclaves. yippeee Gundam!

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.

And for the Hard to Hit argument, 'Independent Characters and Ongoing Effects' in the rulebook. "If an Independent Character joins a unit... benefits and penalties are not shared." Hard to Hit is a benefit of an Ongoing Effect.

The rule you partially quoted says that the benefits and penalties of effects *that targeted the independent character* are not shared. Hard to hit does not target anything. It is not even a special rule that's listed in the FMC special rules. Hard to hit is it's own separate rule that procs whenever a Swooping FMC is shot at.

RAI can only join during glinding.

^yeah, that's probably HIWPI

It really doesn't work does it hopefully the codex will clear it up, or every one will have their own interpretation.

A swooping fmc in a unit as it stands is a rules nightmare.

If they are sensible, the suit itself will have a Rule stripping the Independent Character Special Rule.
Like what occurs when a Chariot is purchased for a few of the Independent Characters with that option.


These Rules show us that Game Workshop needs to make a Unit Type: Flying Infantry....

I wonder if he can still use his jetback for the 2d6 whilst zooming.

peirceg wrote:
I wonder if he can still use his jetback for the 2d6 whilst zooming.

That's a special ability for Jet Pack models. If the Commander is a FMC then he is not a Jet Pack model.

Could be a Jet-Pack Flying Monstrous Creature!
Not being too serious, it is just a laughable concept, but a Model having multiple-Unit Types is a thing.

Theoretically yes, however, the leaked rules just state that it is an FMC, not Jet Pack FMC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if the rules for Crisis Suit says "This confers the Jet Pack unit type." and not something like "A model wearing a Crisis Suit has the Jet Pack Infantry unit type." then yes, it would be a Jet Pack FMC.

What? Are not daemon fmc's independent? Are you telling me I can run 20 flesh hounds with a bloodthirster?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was under the impression that mc's cannot join or be joined by anything.

Happy-Jew,
Models have a Unit Type on their Profile that is, technically, independent of the war-gear the Model will possess.
While it is easy to draw a link between Wargear and the Unit Type field, as purchasing certain Wargear options for a Unit will change its Unit Type, there is no requirement that this link exist.

JinxDragon wrote:
Happy-Jew,
Models have a listed Unit Type on their Profile, independent of the war-gear the Model will possess.
While it makes sense that all Infantry Units with a Jump Pack would be Jump Infantry, it is not required that all Models with the Unit Type of Jump Infantry have a Jump Pack.

You misunderstand what I'm saying.

Commanders are Jet pack Infantry. If they take the XV86, they are no longer Jet Pack Infantry - they are FMC. As such they follow the rules for FMC, not Jet Pack Infantry. That said they do not lose the Crisis Suit. So if the Crisis Suit specifies the model gains the Jet Pack unit type, a Commander in the XV86 will have the unit type "Jet Pack Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)". Otherwise they will have the unit type "Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)"

 Happyjew wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Happy-Jew,
Models have a listed Unit Type on their Profile, independent of the war-gear the Model will possess.
While it makes sense that all Infantry Units with a Jump Pack would be Jump Infantry, it is not required that all Models with the Unit Type of Jump Infantry have a Jump Pack.

You misunderstand what I'm saying.

Commanders are Jet pack Infantry. If they take the XV86, they are no longer Jet Pack Infantry - they are FMC. As such they follow the rules for FMC, not Jet Pack Infantry. That said they do not lose the Crisis Suit. So if the Crisis Suit specifies the model gains the Jet Pack unit type, a Commander in the XV86 will have the unit type "Jet Pack Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)". Otherwise they will have the unit type "Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)"

Actually the rule does say that you replace the Crisis Battlesuit with the XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit.

Somehow missed that. Thanks.

'A commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit....'
- Leaked Rules posted above

I wasn't seriously trying to argue that 'A Commander equipped with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit has the Flying Monstrous Creature (character) Unit Type' is not clear enough to over-write the default Unit Type. I was throwing it out there more as a thought experiment, partially because the implementation of the Coldstar is ridiculous and partially because Game Workshop would be more then capable of butchering their own Rules and creating a 'Jet-pack Flying Monstrous Creature Unit Type purely by accident! Oh and I find it ridiculous only because it is not being handled correctly... it would be better for us to have a 'Flying Infantry' Unit Type then the butchery they put forth as a 'fix.'

We're missing the Wargear entry for the Crisis Battlesuit which more than likely is what gives the model the Jet Pack Infantry Unit Type.

Can MC's actually join units? Has this been done before aside from tyrant guard and conclave of the burning one? Every battle report i've seen has them on their own. I don't mean to derail the thread, it's just that i would have several new lists to try out if this was the case.

Wait a sec, assuming those are the full rules for XV86, and the Crisis Suit is what provides the 3+ armour save, would that mean that taking the XV86 causes you to lose your armour?

The suit will likely have more detailed Rules elsewhere, Game Workshop often does this... bit here, bit over there.

Still, it is possible to answer to your question with the following question of my own:
How do we determine the default Armour Value of a Model?

By checking the Profile and seeing what is listed in the Armour Value field....

We're also missing the Wargear entry for the Coldstar. We need the full codex to have all the necessary information.