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2015/10/21 19:23:09
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Breotan wrote: I hope there will be an update later saying the driver is under arrest for some form of aggravated battery. This guy needs a few years vacation in the Greybar Hotel at the very least.
Battery? More like attempted murder.
2015/10/21 20:08:04
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
The actual charge is two counts of aggravated assault (battery here)
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 20:10:50
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
It says you are less likely to be hit from behind if you are lane splitting, which duh is because a car can't be behind you if one is beside you on most likely both sides. This article In no ways shows lane splitting is safe. It show's you are less likely to suffer a head injury when lane splitting, which is because of how the impact is going to be as opposed to be rear ended or ramming a vehicle in the rear. Also important to that result is the test was done mostly during traffic time when people were driving slower, including motorcycles, due to heavy traffic (vehicles were moving 15mph or less...)and they found motorcyclists in this time were 33% more likely to wear helmets. Which of course is a factor in reduced head injuries. It shows that 17% of accidents happened during lane splitting, which was 1000 for the year they looked at in that area. Considering often during heavy traffic the cars are moving very slow, that there are accidents at all under such conditions shows its not safe.
The study also showed that there was no reduction in injuries for people lane splitting if they went more than 15mph faster than a car, or when traffic was moving more than 30mph.
Also the OP has nothing to do with lane splitting, even if it did lane splitting is illegal in Texas.
Also lane splitting is not actually legal in California, its currently under legislative review in its third incarnation and has not been approved yet. It is however not illegal. Yes that statement is dumb but true.
The problem is not with the article by Berkeley, the problem is with the poorly written cycle world article which cherry picked things out of that to make a statement, and then the person who claimed that "berkeley says lane splitting is safe" when that is not what the article is about.
Well here's a quote directly from the study. I was paraphrasing, but same general idea.
Lane-splitting appears to be a relatively safe motorcycle riding strategy if done in traffic moving at 50 MPH or less and if motorcyclists do not exceed the speed of other vehicles by more than 15 MPH. A significant number of motorcyclists lane-split in fast-moving traffic or at excessive speed differentials. These riders could lower their risk of injury by restricting the environments in which they lane-split and by reducing their speed differential when they do choose to lanesplit.
Emphasis mine.
Slow stop and go traffic often leads to accidents as cars don't stop in time and hit the car in front of them.
Do you have a critique of their methodology or a study that shows theirs is wrong because just attacking the authors isn't a convincing argument. The article I linked to has a link to another study by a different outfit that came to the same conclusion.
Care to elaborate then? Were you just taking a swipe at Berkley in general and not commenting on the validity of this particular study? If the comment was just meant in jest at the expense of Berkley, fine. It's a throw away line that some will be humored by.
If the purpose of the post was to say ignore the study, the comment isn't persuasive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 20:18:43
2015/10/21 20:27:33
Subject: Re:It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
The actual charge is two counts of aggravated assault
Frazz you are leaving out the with a deadly weapon part,with that added we are splitting hairs. If I am reading the statutes right aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder are both class 2 felonies punishable by 2-20 years and up to a $10000 dollar fine. It is literally the exact same punishment. The dude is looking at a minimum 4 years in prison.
8000pts.
7000pts.
5000pts.
on the way.
2015/10/21 20:30:28
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Deliberately knocking a motorcyclist off their bike at high speeds has a very high risk off killing that motorcyclist. Ergo I think it should have been an attempted homicide charge.
2015/10/21 20:34:58
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
The actual charge is two counts of aggravated assault
Frazz you are leaving out the with a deadly weapon part,with that added we are splitting hairs. If I am reading the statutes right aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder are both class 2 felonies punishable by 2-20 years and up to a $10000 dollar fine. It is literally the exact same punishment. The dude is looking at a minimum 4 years in prison.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 20:38:13
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 20:36:40
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
My assumption was that he meant to swing over and block them from passing but oversteered.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/10/21 20:36:46
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Deliberately knocking a motorcyclist off their bike at high speeds has a very high risk off killing that motorcyclist. Ergo I think it should have been an attempted homicide charge.
Well, the county didn't agree, or was intelligent enough to know that they couldn't prove that at all.
I'm not sure they'll be able to prove beyond a reasonable that it wasn't an accident.
Their best hope is a plea, because all it's going to take is one person on the jury that thinks the biker was an donkey-cave that was breaking the road laws to prevent conviction.
2015/10/21 20:39:38
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Deliberately knocking a motorcyclist off their bike at high speeds has a very high risk off killing that motorcyclist. Ergo I think it should have been an attempted homicide charge.
Well, the county didn't agree, or was intelligent enough to know that they couldn't prove that at all.
I'm not sure they'll be able to prove beyond a reasonable that it wasn't an accident.
Their best hope is a plea, because all it's going to take is one person on the jury that thinks the biker was an donkey-cave that was breaking the road laws to prevent conviction.
And then they play the video over and over and over of the wreck and him saying "I don't care"
This is Texas, he's a goner.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 20:44:58
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 20:47:55
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Their best hope is a plea, because all it's going to take is one person on the jury that thinks the biker was an donkey-cave that was breaking the road laws to prevent conviction.
Good jury instructions making it clear the rider is not the one on trial ought to cover that.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/21 20:50:45
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
And then they play the video over and over and over of the wreck and him saying "I don't care"
This is Texas, he's a goner.
Lack of empathy hardly equates to guilt, though.
While true, I would somewhat assume that the legal team here will use the video to show a purposeful movement, and the "I don't care" as evidence of a complete lack of remorse, which will help the "purposeful movement" part of the evidence in establishing that this guy doesn't care one bit about other humans and should take a long vacation at Her Majesty's leisure.
Their best hope is a plea, because all it's going to take is one person on the jury that thinks the biker was an donkey-cave that was breaking the road laws to prevent conviction.
Good jury instructions making it clear the rider is not the one on trial ought to cover that.
Agreed. There may still be some sort of trial, or ticketing process for the motorcyclist, and I'm sure the jury will be informed of that, and instructed to NOT let the cyclists actions alter their judgements.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 20:52:23
2015/10/21 20:56:32
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
My assumption was that he meant to swing over and block them from passing but oversteered.
And this assumption is what prevents an attempted homicide charge. Usually with attempted homicide you need to be able to demonstrate an intent to kill. Since I don't think that can be easily proven here, the prosecutors were right to go with AGwDW.
cincydooley wrote: I'm simply saying that's going to be harder to do than to prove the inverse.
Acknowledging that he hit them isn't an acknowledgement of intent. Nor is his lack of empathy.
The only fact that we can say with 100% certainty is that if the motorcyclist had followed the road laws, he would not have been hit.
Well, the video does show the car crossing the double lines to hit the bike. I'm sure a prosecutor can get the jury to see that as a demonstration of intent.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/21 21:00:50
2015/10/21 21:10:22
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Frazzled wrote: He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
He's a scumbag but it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to murder them. "I was just trying to scare them and teach them a lesson." type douchebaggery, sure but kill? I mean, I can see it and I'm actually a bit surprised, considering his flippant remarks, that they didn't apply it but...
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/10/21 21:11:35
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Frazzled wrote: He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
He's a scumbag but it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to murder them. "I was just trying to scare them and teach them a lesson." type douchebaggery, sure but kill? I mean, I can see it and I'm actually a bit surprised, considering his flippant remarks, that they didn't apply it but...
"I was just pointing the gun at the guy trying to scare him, I didnt mean to shoot it"
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/10/21 21:15:07
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Frazzled wrote: He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
He's a scumbag but it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to murder them. .
he's not charged with murder.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 21:21:00
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Frazzled wrote: He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
He's a scumbag but it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to murder them. "I was just trying to scare them and teach them a lesson." type douchebaggery, sure but kill? I mean, I can see it and I'm actually a bit surprised, considering his flippant remarks, that they didn't apply it but...
"I was just pointing the gun at the guy trying to scare him, I didnt mean to shoot it"
Guns didn't have anything to do with this. There's no reason to bring them up.
2015/10/21 21:25:27
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
Frazzled wrote: He admitted he hit them.
He said they were over the line (so its his moral duty to cross the same line and kill them???)
He said he didn't care that he hit them.
Its a screaming indicator of both intent and depraved indifference. This guy is roadkill (pardon the pun) and may die in prison. Good.
He's a scumbag but it doesn't necessarily indicate intent to murder them. "I was just trying to scare them and teach them a lesson." type douchebaggery, sure but kill? I mean, I can see it and I'm actually a bit surprised, considering his flippant remarks, that they didn't apply it but...
"I was just pointing the gun at the guy trying to scare him, I didnt mean to shoot it"
Guns didn't have anything to do with this. There's no reason to bring them up.
He said nothing positive or negative about guns. It was an example of how he thought the logic was flawed, nothing more. The only one making this about guns is you.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2015/10/21 21:34:26
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
whats with the chip on your shoulder. I mearly used this as an example as why just saying you wanted to scare someone with a deadly weapon(Which a car and a Gun are) is not an excuse for when someone gets hurt.
If this is what Ohio does to you, im glad im in cali.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/10/21 21:40:24
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 21:40:33
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/10/21 21:41:17
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
hotsauceman1 wrote: whats with the chip on your shoulder. I mearly used this as an example as why just saying you wanted to scare someone with a deadly weapon(Which a car and a Gun are) is not an excuse for when someone gets hurt.
If this is what Ohio does to you, im glad im in cali.
Plus, in Cali it is legal for you to split lanes on your motorsickle!
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/10/21 21:42:37
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
cincydooley wrote: Riiiiiiiight. You keep telling yourself that as I introduce firearms to this unrelated conversation exactly zero times.
But you can continue to disingenuously claim whatever you want. God bless our daily doses of education from the college student peanut gallery.
You went after a statement that he was using as an example because it he mentioned guns, despite nobody else doing so, or treating it any different than just another example. There was nobody harping about gun laws, or violence or what have you. He could have just as easily have said, knives, or bows, or literally anything else, and it would not have mattered. But, apparently, because he mentioned guns, it mattered.
Besides, there's no reason to be rude.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2015/10/21 21:44:24
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
hotsauceman1 wrote: whats with the chip on your shoulder. I mearly used this as an example as why just saying you wanted to scare someone with a deadly weapon(Which a car and a Gun are) is not an excuse for when someone gets hurt.
It's a gakky example that intentionally brings in non-related but very polarizing topic unnecessarily.
If this is what Ohio does to you, im glad im in cali.
Yep. That's totes it. You nailed it. You really must be getting your moneys worth at the university you attend.
2015/10/21 21:45:16
Subject: It can be very dangerous to be a bike rider in the USA.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
8000pts.
7000pts.
5000pts.
on the way. 
