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After seeing a post of the player who cheesed his opponent to death in the first turn and reading in the comments, I noted something interesting. The rulebook states that if at the end of a game turn, one side has no models on the board, they lose. I read up on what constitutes a game turn and the rulebook distinguishes between Game Turns and Player Turns. One game turn consists of 2 player turns.

What this means is that it's possible to start the battle with minimal or no forces on the battlefield and you won't automatically lose as long as you can deploy forces during your first player turn. Since I've recently been looking at drop pod lists, I got an idea.

Space Marines - Combined Arms Detachment

HQ

1. Librarian w/force sword

Troops

1. 5-man Scout squad, no other wargear

2. 5-man Tactical squad with flamer. Drop Pod dedicated transport.

Fast Attack

1. Drop Pod

2. Drop Pod

Heavy Support

1. 3-man Centurion Devastator squad. All with grav-cannons and grav-amps.

2. 3-man Centurion Devastator squad. All with grav-cannons and grav-amps.

Inquisition - Inquisitorial Detachment

HQ

Inquisitor Coteaz

Space Marines Formation Detachment - Skyhammer Annihilation Force

1. Ten-man Assault squad with jump packs

2. Ten-man Assault squad with jump packs

3. Ten-man Devastator squad with 4 grav-cannons with grav-amps in drop pod

4. Ten-man Devastator squad with 4 grav-cannons with grav-amps in drop pod

Details

The list relies on forcing the opponent to deploy first and then deep striking the majority of the force in a manner that causes the most damage. At the beginning of the game, the only unit I will have on the field is the Scout squad, which will be deployed to sit on an easy objective or something. Even if they get shot off the table, I still can't lose until the Game Turn ends.

When my turn begins, Skyhammer Annihilation Force and the 2 Fast Attack Drop Pods will deploy using Drop Pod Assault. The tactical squad with the token drop pod is only there to use 2 drop pods in Drop Pod Assault, since Drop Pod Assault stipulates that you can deploy half of your drop pods rounding up on the first turn. That Tactical Squad just deploys later. It has a flamer because I only had 5 points to spare.

The Librarian takes Prescience and is deployed via drop pod with one Centurion squad. This gives the Centurions re-rolls to hit and to wound.

Coteaz can also take Prescience and is deployed in the other Drop Pod. Coteaz also has the passive ability to allow the player to re-roll their Seize the Initative or force the opponent to re-roll theirs. This places control of the first turn more in my hands. Coteaz also has a fun little ability that allows him and his unit to fire on enemies deep striking within a certain distance and vision as many times as they want. All this for 100 points.

Skyhammer Annihilation Force will deploy as combat squads. A total of 8 squads landing and attacking on the first turn. Combat squads maximise the impact of Suppressing Fusillade and allow me to tie as many enemy units up as possible.

The Centurion Devastators are just Centurion Devastators. They devastate things. Each squad has 15 shots of grav-cannon that re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound. They make things dead.

The list is built on the alpha strike and is designed to take control of the battle as early as possible by re-rolling seize the initiative or forcing the opponent to re-roll theirs if they succeed. The list also forces the opponent to deploy defensively and no matter how they deploy, you should still be able to exploit their weaknesses when you attack.

When the force arrives, the only thing that can cause it harm are Inquisitor Coteaz, Interceptor and assorted standard bull:cuss like re-rollable 2+ jink saves or Invisibility.

In a perfect scenario where the opponent has no Coteaz or Interceptor, you can have 6 Centurions, 4 Devastator grav-cannons with amplifiers and 4 Assault Squads attacking the enemy before they can respond in any meaningful way. The whole time they are attacked, they are facing grav-cannons with re-rolls to wound, units being forced to Go to Ground or unable to overwatch and Assault Squads that may be able to re-roll to wound and to hit.

The list is aimed at dictating control over the battlefield and then crippling the opponent in the first turn.

Questions:

1. What Chapter Tactics are best suited to this list?

2. How can the list be modified or improved?

You want to use Imp fists.

I also recommend putting more units on the ground! One units of scouts will get obliterated (Tau, Whirlwinds, Wyverns, infiltrators, other drop pods)

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You want to use Imp fists.

I also recommend putting more units on the ground! One units of scouts will get obliterated (Tau, Whirlwinds, Wyverns, infiltrators, other drop pods)

But the scouts only exist as troops tax and to sit on an objective early on. If they get shot off the table, it doesn't affect my chances of winning or losing much aside from losing said objective. You don't lose the game if you start your turn with nothing on the field. A player only loses the game if at the beginning of the next game turn, they have nothing on the field.

That is a pretty nasty list. Yea I had to look up what a game turn was recently too. Looks fun but after a few games I'm sure will get boring. I wouldn't worry about the scouts dying at all. Great for objective sitters.

I agree Imperial Fist and paint them as Crimson Fist if you don't want to paint that much yellow.

You want Ultramarine tactics always on a Sky hammer and it makes sense on the main detachment as well that way you get twin linked on ALL your units turn 1. Still roll divination on the psykers hoping for ignores cover. I would outflank the Scouts and you're better off going 2nd not first in most cases (unless your opponent has invisibility). Perhaps trying to fit a Culexus inwould help if this is for competitive play (and god save your opponents if not).

Congratulations, you've discovered the generic netlist that went around when the marine codex first got released.

Agree with FlingitNow, All Ultras All the Time. Pop devastator doctrine for twin linked on your grav the turn you come down, then next turn, pop tactical doctrine for re-roll ones. Use 3rd turn for assault so you can mop up anything your opponent has left if they haven't been tabled/conceeded yet.

Culexus is indeed absolute filth against any psychic deathstar based force, and against virtually anything else, it won't matter because you've got sufficient grav shots.

Trim the 2 assault squads back to 5 men each, that nets you the 140 you need for the culexus (and another 30 for whatever, I'd suggest another ML and an Auspex on the libby). You can now make the tacticals with flamer scouts and shift their pod to FA so the culexus can jump in.

Now you can pick if you need the psychic cancelling of the culexus and 15 grav shots from 1 cent squad of if they have no psychic shenanigans to dispel, then just bring both cents down and the culexus can pod in whenever. Also lets you react to Eldar players putting their council in reserve, this way the culexus can stay in reserve until the council has come on and then pod down, meanwhile, your dev cents have damaged/crippled his wraithknights.

Edit; Oh, and be prepared for your opponent to catch your tears when they use void shields to negate your entire army, or if you play against green tide orks, or virtually any non-flying circus daemons list.

You'd want a Drop Pod for the Culexus too.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You'd want a Drop Pod for the Culexus too.

Hence why I took the tacs and their pod out, replaced them with another scout unit and put the pod into the 3rd FA slot.

95 - Libby, ML2, Auspex
55 - 5x Scouts
55 - 5x Scouts
35 - Drop Pod
35 - Drop Pod
35 - Drop Pod
250 - 3x Dev Cents, grav, Omniscope
250 - 3x Dev Cents, grav, Omniscope

140 - Culexus

100 - Coteaz

85 - 5x ASM
85 - 5x ASM
315 - 10x Devs, 4x Grav, Drop Pod
315 - 10x Devs, 4x Grav, Drop Pod

1850 on the dot.

Edit; Feel free to replace Coteaz with a 2nd ML2 libby with auspex and stick a melta bomb on one of the ASM sarges if you need to stick to 3 detatchments.

This list is brutal, but for a more "TAC" optimization. It will be better for you to switch one Grav Cents to sternguard and get some points for a TFC, just incase if you run into a Nids swarm list, which made your Grav weapons almost useless. Or even worse scenario is that you encouter daemons, whose MCs other than Bloodthirster are T6 but with no armor save but all of them have at least a 5++........

Ultramarines for reroll a on the Skyhammer for sure. Consider White Scars for the CAD for hit and run, but Ultramarines would work as well.

Make sure to stick Coteaz win whatever CEnturion unit is coming down first if you go second, and the Librarian if you go first.

And people saying Imperial Fists make me lol.

Thanks for the suggestion on fitting a Culexus in! I'm personally a big fan of assassins, so wanted one in somehow. Would the Culexus really be better than 10 assault marines, though? It also looks like I'll be taking Ultramarines Chapter Tactics.

My last question is, what's everyone's impression of the list? Is this a tournament list, or competitive? I don't expect it to win Adepticon or anything, but for a local club's tournament or something, would this work?

Assault marines are pretty meh. The culexus will ruin invisibility, is only hit on 6s by shooting, and if he lives through turn one can charge and kill things, probably more on average than those 10 ASM bodies in the long run. will probably be a huge distraction carnifex to anyone with psykers.

Noted. I replaced 10 Assault Marines with a Culexus. The list currently looks like this:

Space Marines - Combined Arms Detachment

HQ

1. Librarian w/force sword. Mastery level 2, auspex.

Troops

1. 5-man Scout squad, no other wargear

2. 5-man Tactical squad. Drop Pod dedicated transport.

Fast Attack

1. Drop Pod

2. Drop Pod

Heavy Support

1. 3-man Centurion Devastator squad. All with grav-cannons and grav-amps.

2. 3-man Centurion Devastator squad. All with grav-cannons and grav-amps.

Inquisition - Inquisitorial Detachment

HQ

Inquisitor Coteaz

Space Marines Formation Detachment - Skyhammer Annihilation Force

1. Five-man Assault squad with jump packs. Melta bombs.

2. Five-man Assault squad with jump packs

3. Ten-man Devastator squad with 4 grav-cannons with grav-amps in drop pod

4. Ten-man Devastator squad with 4 grav-cannons with grav-amps in drop pod

Officio Assassinorum - Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites

1. Culexus assassin

Details:

I decided to retain the drop pod tactical marines because I'm not seeing why the Culexus needs its own drop pod. The Culexus Assassin can Infiltrate, like all other assassins. I think the Culexus is only a threat as long as it is on the field and placing it in reserves with a drop pod means it won't even reliably turn up until Turn 3 or 4. I think Infiltrating it into battle early lets it start threatening the enemy and adds to the alpha strike in the early game, rather than letting it be like 8% of my army arriving only Turn 3.

1. What are everyone's opinions of removing the Librarian's Auspex in favour of kitting the other Assault Squad with melta bombs as well? My intention with Assault Squads is to have them start hacking down vehicles on the first turn in the assault and to force the opponent into diverting resources to save those vehicles, or losing them outright. Glancing with S4 on vehicles isn't reliable so melta bombs are really powerful for that role. On the other hand, I can see the Auspex also being a powerful tool.

2. In everyone's opinion, would this be considered a semi-competitive or competitive list? I don't expect to crush tournaments, but when the guys at my local club bring out their 'stronger' lists, I want to be able to fight them toe to toe.

I have also run a full drop pod list using Salamander tactics to GREAT effect. I am a big fan of them as pretty much NO ONE in my area really uses more than one or two drop pods in their list. I had to find and bookmark the game turn rule myself as a lot of people don't really understand it and at tournaments (local only) I run into a bunch of people claiming that they won cause at the start of turn 1, I have nothing on the board. Another thing that I have found is to try to win initiative and then choose to go second. It tends to throw people off because everyone wants to go first and then they are left wondering why you chose to go second. Also, remember that you do not have to declare which units are coming in turn one until you start to place them.

Just out of curiosity, where in the rulebook does it say I don't have to tell my opponent what units are arriving from deep strike until I start placing them? This will be useful if I play tournament style.

Tanis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, where in the rulebook does it say I don't have to tell my opponent what units are arriving from deep strike until I start placing them? This will be useful if I play tournament style.

because It doesn't say you have to.