Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I have a friend that I typically play against who likes to field the cheesiest possible combination of models. Namely the insanely point efficient broadsides and riptides. With the new model, I'd like to get some more general strategies on how one can bring a proper butt-whuppin to the table. He, like many tau players likes to camp his best models in the back and block with Fire Warriors. Because they're -really- good at stopping charges.

I play SM and have recently picked up AM. I also have a knight, assassins, and inquisition.

That I've seen there are very few ways to beat this, and the games where I have come close he has won by sheer luck (really really really bad rolls on my part).

Strategy 1: Caw Caw

Bring everything flying. Precious few Tau units are a threat to your birds and most things that fly can soak one or two hits.

Strategy 2: Bum Rush

Bikes, Speeders, Metal Bawkses, if it rolls, put it in. Objective is simply to cross as much territory as possible to get your best units in the Danger Zone. Rotate boxes to provide cover as you go if you're just going to run.

Strategy 3: Army in a Can

Drop Pod EVERYTHING. Bring Empty Drop Pods so you can deploy your whole army on turn 1 UNCOMFORTABLY close to your enemy. Giver literally every model meltas. If you can't taste their sweat, you're too far away.

Strategy 4: Literally Armor for your Armor

Bring lots and lots of tanks. Use them to break LOS for your best tanks. Hitting armor 14 (13 if you're on the cheap) seems to make Tau players sweat a bit. Land Raiders, Lemon Russ', Ironclads, all seem to have a fairly high pucker factor.

Strategy 5: Cheesemaster

Bring Heroes. Lots of heroes. Named dudes are your trip to value town and something that the Tau -really- don't have enough of to catch up. That named inquisitor? Bring him. Named tank? Sure, lets get some free goodies. Basically the objective is to mix and match to get the most undercosted units into play. Vulkan He'Stan at under 200 pts? Hellz yes.

Now I've had a mixed bag of results for these, largely because of terrible, terrible, terrible dice rolls but they have also informed me what some really, REALLY bad models are to bring:

Predators, Whirlwinds: Too much point for not enough bang. Armor value is low. Consider using Rhinos to block for a Vindicator instead or using a more cost effective Razorback.
Dreadnought: Literally a worse Ironclad.
Centurion: Really really really great at dying. Too slow to make a difference. Too fat to Drop Pod. Too much cost to put in a Land Raider.
Thunderfire Cannon: An absolute beast at killing Fire Warriors and absolutely nothing else
Master of the Forge: You'd much rather just have a techmarine.
Assault Squad: Swiss cheese on rye. Dies faster than everything else.
Terminators: Without Feel No Pain you just aren't making enough difference with these and they absolutely devour your points.

Models that have performed really, really well:

Vindicator: Turn the volume up to 11 and prepare for rock.
Knight: Literally better than 2 Riptides.
Land Raider Redeemer: Expensive to bring solo but if you've got the points you can sneak one in as dedicated transport. Fire to ignore all those pesky cover saves and melta for the juicy targets.
Storm Raven/ Storm Talon: Just really really good. Decent amount of boom for your buck. Crosses the battlefield with ease and can make the enemy waste shots trying to sink your fairly low cost models.
Inquisitors/Psykers: Yes. The more the better.
Razorback: Literally a Rhino with more guns but still disposable like a tissue. Your best friend.
Hunter-Killer Missiles: All of my yes.
Ironclad Dreadnought: An absolute god in a drop pod. Swinging a heavy flamer and melta around with some serious melee pain? And only pennies more than a vanilla dread.
Sternguard Veterans: Decide right now just how much you want to win this game. You can dump half your points in these guys and it probably would still be worth it. MUST be in a drop pod.
Devastator Squad: Cheap. Like, really cheap. Can give your opponent more grief than any other 5 models in your army.
Scouts: Snipers and Missile Launchers make these guys way more viable than you'd expect. Like the devastator squad, they remain a threat even at half strength.

So that's what I've found, anything you'd like to share? What do you think would be the best way to deal with the new model?

Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

You clearly havent had it assaulted by a bunch of dudes with haywire grenades

 Frozocrone wrote:
Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

This is incorrect unless there is a new formation of codex that I am unaware of. They have no way of selecting a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

AkiraSovu wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

This is incorrect unless there is a new formation of codex that I am unaware of. They have no way of selecting a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

you don't need to take them as dedicated transports. Just take a fast attack drop pod

 CrownAxe wrote:

AkiraSovu wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

This is incorrect unless there is a new formation of codex that I am unaware of. They have no way of selecting a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

you don't need to take them as dedicated transports. Just take a fast attack drop pod

Okay you all clearly know something I don't because that is not an option in the codex I am looking at. SM 7th doesn't have that. Where are you getting this?

Take a look at the Fast Attack section of the SM 7th Codex. Buy a Centurion Devastator Squad. Buy a Fast Attack Drop Pod. Put Centurion's inside Drop Pod. Kill Riptide.

AkiraSovu wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

AkiraSovu wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

This is incorrect unless there is a new formation of codex that I am unaware of. They have no way of selecting a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

you don't need to take them as dedicated transports. Just take a fast attack drop pod

Okay you all clearly know something I don't because that is not an option in the codex I am looking at. SM 7th doesn't have that. Where are you getting this?

As long as a transport is not a dedicated transport for something else, a unit may choose to start the game in it, assuming it can legally go inside. This includes vehicles in reserve such as stormravens and empty drop pods.
A new thing for several 7e books is that the vehicles that used to be ONLY dedicated transports are now selectable as their own army list choice. Wave serpents, rhinos, razorbacks, dark eldar raiders, drop pods etc.

So yes you can now drop pod any infantry unit, even battle brother allies. I personally enjoy the drop pod culexus assassin.

DROP POD THE AM!!!

Wow um. Hold on while I buy 34 more drop pods.

The version. On my phone must be out of date. I'd have to check my hard copy when I am home. Yeah that's a game changer. Centurions actually become viable. Scary even.

Just watch out for Interceptor from Broadsides, Riptides, and Stormsurges*. There will be fireworks on their arrival.

*All assuming that the Early Warning Override remains in the codex.

As Tau I have trouble with a chapter master bike deathstar, with a lib you can roll for invis too and sweep through his lines, use this with a few more min groups of bikers so he can either pick them off or try to kill the deathstar. A knight is a good fire magnet, allowing the rest of your army to get to the tau unscathed. Use the Knight Acheron from FW with the 18" Ap3 flamer, this gives you a 30" threat range, ignoring all cover and crisis suits armor.

AkiraSovu wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

AkiraSovu wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Centurions can be put in a DP, they only take three spaces each.

Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

I would wait until the new Codex drops before devising tactics though.

This is incorrect unless there is a new formation of codex that I am unaware of. They have no way of selecting a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

you don't need to take them as dedicated transports. Just take a fast attack drop pod

Okay you all clearly know something I don't because that is not an option in the codex I am looking at. SM 7th doesn't have that. Where are you getting this?

No, you are looking at the 6th edition codex. Drop pods are FA in 7th and they removed the MotF so theres only the Techmarine now

Well besides getting swindled by buying the 6th edition codex with a pretty updated cover for 7th, what other tactics have you all found to be effective?

Thunderfire the pathfinders with ignore cover rounds, send the invisible centurions to hunt suits, and use stormtalons to hit the fire warriors and light vehicles, and have smashfether detach and hit things when convenient.

5 centurions can kill a storm surge a turn with the their cannons... Perhaps 4 can do it with their cannons and hurricane bolters? Missile launchers for sure...

Those pathfinders/markerlights really need to die asap. If you can swing offing them turn one, you'll be In a good spot for later. You never really know how much you love cover as marines until you lose it.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

You clearly havent had it assaulted by a bunch of dudes with haywire grenades

My mate never takes EMPnades xD he's too busy trying to melta it (it's usually bubblewrapped or crisis gets wiped first).

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Land Raiders do well but only because Tau struggle against AV14.

You clearly havent had it assaulted by a bunch of dudes with haywire grenades

My mate never takes EMPnades xD he's too busy trying to melta it (it's usually bubblewrapped or crisis gets wiped first).

Tell him almost all his guys get haywire weapons

Heavy Flamers in a pod or Heavy Bolters vs fire warriors,
Grav Cents or grav bikes or plasma vs monstors
Can't go wrong with Jump infantry either
Taking multiple small units could be good as well as target saturation in order to make them pick who to shoot at. You only need one unit to get into combat with his gunline for the whole thing to fall.

All things I don't like to face when using my Tau.

Update: Never take a death star against Tau now, just don't. The Tau army will turn into one super unit and eat it.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Thunderfire the pathfinders with ignore cover rounds, send the invisible centurions to hunt suits, and use stormtalons to hit the fire warriors and light vehicles, and have smashfether detach and hit things when convenient.

5 centurions can kill a storm surge a turn with the their cannons... Perhaps 4 can do it with their cannons and hurricane bolters? Missile launchers for sure...

Those pathfinders/markerlights really need to die asap. If you can swing offing them turn one, you'll be In a good spot for later. You never really know how much you love cover as marines until you lose it.

I think you may need to redo your math there. You are telling me that 5 (or even 4) centurions can do 8 wounds on a T6 monster with a 3+ save, a 4++ inv., and a 5+++ FnP?

Three batteries of earthshaker platforms. Hide them out of LOS and too far away for the ignores LOS weapons. Drop 9x S9 pie plates on him every turn. Who cares where they scatter?

Tau USED to have AV14 problems. That is long dead now.

Large suit units with fusions = dead av14
Stealth Cadre = dead av14
Hammerhead squad = 3 BS5 shots, with tankhunter if you add in Longstrike....dead av14
Haywire grenades are costly as balls and usually by the time the firewarriors get that charge off, theyre already in trouble. Yes it kills av14 but i wouldnt consider it a dependable counter.
Not even going to bother mentioning the stormsurge lol.

Back on OP: droppod or flier spam can be a real pain in the butt to Tau. Yes we have access to skyfire on any suit, but we typically dont want it because its expensive, situational, and prevents us from taking a much more favorable upgrade. Thus youre really only going to have rate of fire or lucky ML hits to worry about.
And anybody that puts a skyfire on an IA riptide or stormsurge is an idiot. Their main damn point for being on the table is pi plates, and he cant say one gun has skyfire while the other doesnt so the GMC either wastes his pi plates or snapfires his nonpiplates.
EWO can be a problem since its so cheap most Tau take it anyway, but EWO can backfire. Deploy too close to our front line and odds are we will be reluctant to EWO blast templates since we wont have ML support to prevent it from bombing our front lines. And of course, that means our next shooting is neutered. Personally i dont even use EWO unless its something devastatingly powerful that pops up purely because my luck with no ML support riptides is lousy.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tau USED to have AV14 problems. That is long dead now.

Large suit units with fusions = dead av14
Stealth Cadre = dead av14
Hammerhead squad = 3 BS5 shots, with tankhunter if you add in Longstrike....dead av14
Haywire grenades are costly as balls and usually by the time the firewarriors get that charge off, theyre already in trouble. Yes it kills av14 but i wouldnt consider it a dependable counter.
Not even going to bother mentioning the stormsurge lol.

Back on OP: droppod or flier spam can be a real pain in the butt to Tau. Yes we have access to skyfire on any suit, but we typically dont want it because its expensive, situational, and prevents us from taking a much more favorable upgrade. Thus youre really only going to have rate of fire or lucky ML hits to worry about.
And anybody that puts a skyfire on an IA riptide or stormsurge is an idiot. Their main damn point for being on the table is pi plates, and he cant say one gun has skyfire while the other doesnt so the GMC either wastes his pi plates or snapfires his nonpiplates.
EWO can be a problem since its so cheap most Tau take it anyway, but EWO can backfire. Deploy too close to our front line and odds are we will be reluctant to EWO blast templates since we wont have ML support to prevent it from bombing our front lines. And of course, that means our next shooting is neutered. Personally i dont even use EWO unless its something devastatingly powerful that pops up purely because my luck with no ML support riptides is lousy.

Don't forget the Gunport formation - if three fire at the same target, all three shots have armorbane.