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I've really liked the idea of a fast SM army that hits the enemy really quickly but without going the all drop pod route. The theme of the list I envision would be an army comprised of infiltrating scouts, jump pack units, and dreadnoughts in drop pods. The general idea is that at turn 1, the scouts are already in the enemy's face, and the arrival of Dreads and assault troops keeps them bottled up and eventually crushed in their own deployment zone. The two SM armies that seem the most logical for this are Raven Guard and Blood Angels, but I'm not sure which I should run with.

The problem is this: I like the idea of a Blood Angels army more from a fluff perspective, and with crunch, you get furious charge, sanguinary priests, and the best dreads and jump troops available to marines, making them much more effective in hand to hand. The flipside is their scouts' stats are worse (and they don't get shrouded with chapter tactics), and they don't have access to Landspeeder Storms, which would make the scouts more effective killers and much better in a support role (fly up with a teleporter homer to make sure you drop my assault squads/vanguard vets/death company/dreads right where I want them). I know that scouts aren't supposed to be expected to carry much weight in combat, but I was estimating that I would probably end up bringing ~10 scouts for every ~700 points or so of my army, so I think I need them to be as good as they can.

Advice?

Raven guard are probably better from a game play perspective. Codex Space marines have much better options compared to BA.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Raven guard are probably better from a game play perspective. Codex Space marines have much better options compared to BA.

I second this, and I'm a BA player. I've been using the army enough to know that unless you're spot on with your tactics, games can turn disastrous pretty quickly.

Raven Guard get better Bikers (thanks, Shrouded bonus!) and their Assault Marines are actually quick enough to make it into combat too.

Blood Angels really only have Death Company and Dante as things that really stand out.

People often underestimate how well scouts can perform, especially in melee. I normally use them just to sit on objectives but CCW scouts are vastly superior to tacticals in combat if the game comes to that. I've never run bolter scouts so can't say much about them except that they are most likely a much more cost-effective troops choice than tactical marines.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
People often underestimate how well scouts can perform, especially in melee. I normally use them just to sit on objectives but CCW scouts are vastly superior to tacticals in combat if the game comes to that. I've never run bolter scouts so can't say much about them except that they are most likely a much more cost-effective troops choice than tactical marines.

A typical BA set up utilises minimal Scout squads. I favour snipers sitting in cover on objectives and even going to ground for the sake of lasting the game. I know a lot of others prefer the CC orientated Scouts in BA due to Furious Charge and the Blood Thirst rule that is likely to give you the first swing. The -1 BS for BA Scouts is a bit of a draw back though. They're handy if you want to avoid a high costing troop tax too, which is what I'm more angled towards now.

 slowclinic wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Raven guard are probably better from a game play perspective. Codex Space marines have much better options compared to BA.

I second this, and I'm a BA player. I've been using the army enough to know that unless you're spot on with your tactics, games can turn disastrous pretty quickly.

So how would playing the vanilla SM codex fix this?

Why not both? Take a Baal Strike Force with plenty of death company, and ally in a Ravenwing strike force. Baal Strike Force allows you 4 Elites and + 1 initiative on the charge. Ravenwing Strike Force gives you access to awesome bike units with nice buffs and deployment manipulation. Then you can have Black Knights and Death Company running up the field. I'm building this list and love it. Disclaimer- I play in mostly casual games.

ScratchDash wrote:

 slowclinic wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Raven guard are probably better from a game play perspective. Codex Space marines have much better options compared to BA.

I second this, and I'm a BA player. I've been using the army enough to know that unless you're spot on with your tactics, games can turn disastrous pretty quickly.

So how would playing the vanilla SM codex fix this?

The Space Marine Codex is more forgiving of mistakes than the Blood Angel Codex. Its not all battle companies, superfriend bikes, and centstars, the SM codex has a lot of options at various competitive levels to choose from.

As a Blood Angel player I recommend the Raven Guard if your priority is gameplay. I would only choose Blood Angels if your priority is the background.

As a blood angels player, I have to ask if you want more technical/defensive abilites (1st turn shrouded, shred on HoW, better jump packs) or better combat rules/units. If you want the former, go Raven Guard. If you want the latter, go Blood Angels.

Don't forget the grav cents.

The Space Marine Codex is more forgiving of mistakes than the Blood Angel Codex. Its not all battle companies, superfriend bikes, and centstars, the SM codex has a lot of options at various competitive levels to choose from.

As a Blood Angel player I recommend the Raven Guard if your priority is gameplay. I would only choose Blood Angels if your priority is the background.

Got there before I could! It's a shame a lot of dedicated BA players can be so certain that another player should't choose them.