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 Dark Severance wrote:
"The Adeptus Mechanicus also regard organic flesh as weak and view the removal and replacement of biological tissue with mechanical, bionic parts as sacred. Most elder Tech-priests have few organic parts left and eventually become more machine than man."

 Ketara wrote:
I want to like this company, but they seem to share the same immature desire to sculpt giant breasts onto everything for no reason as Prodos.

There is actually a difference between these and Prodos sculpts in terms of quality and design. These designs aren't immature although a good portion of them are designed to be cheescake (instead of cheese) while others are legitimate designs. Some of the designs although fit into the background of the genre as well and aren't claiming there are force-fields protecting them. Flesh is just considered weak and will be removed and replaced anyways. Breasts doesn't automatically make something immature but the presentation of them can be. Like all things some of the designs I like, I got while others I didn't so I didn't get them.

Thems ain't nipples, guvner, thems LEDs! The green glow's to show thems workin' proper.'

I love the vehicles, though. I have been getting them for my good lady's Post-Apocalyptic game, where they are used by the Office of the Witch Finder General, Matthew Hopkins XXIII.

The Auld Grump

 foostick wrote:
Is there a reason the Genestealer Cult lads cruise round in mad limos?

Because they look cool !

My crew knocked about in a converted horse box lol

 Dark Severance wrote:
"The Adeptus Mechanicus also regard organic flesh as weak and view the removal and replacement of biological tissue with mechanical, bionic parts as sacred. Most elder Tech-priests have few organic parts left and eventually become more machine than man."

 Ketara wrote:
I want to like this company, but they seem to share the same immature desire to sculpt giant breasts onto everything for no reason as Prodos.

There is actually a difference between these and Prodos sculpts in terms of quality and design. These designs aren't immature although a good portion of them are designed to be cheescake (instead of cheese) while others are legitimate designs. Some of the designs although fit into the background of the genre as well and aren't claiming there are force-fields protecting them. Flesh is just considered weak and will be removed and replaced anyways. Breasts doesn't automatically make something immature but the presentation of them can be. Like all things some of the designs I like, I got while others I didn't so I didn't get them.

So if the tau ladies aren't being defended by forcefields, what are they using? Do their giant breasts fire lasers to shoot down incoming rounds?





There is absolutely no difference to Prodos here. Breasts don't make something immature, but sculpting pneumatic gravity-defying 36E tits onto almost every female model (covered or not) is clearly a trend here. Trying to pretend it's somehow different to the Prodos Space Crusaders is not going to work. The mega-boobs aren't realistic, the body proportions are generally like Barbie, and they feel this desire to sculpt them everywhere they think they can. Immature my friend, describes it perfectly well. It's not pinup, it's titillation for 14 year olds.

 Ketara wrote:

...
So if the tau ladies aren't being defended by forcefields, what are they using? Do their giant breasts fire lasers to shoot down incoming rounds?
...

If your opponent agrees to it, yes. Yes they do.

 BrookM wrote:
IThough I am already looking at how to convert the models into something more agreeable myself. A bit of shaving with the knife here, the addition of some purity seals and wiring there, then paint up the exposed flesh as say, a metal exo-skeleton shaped like the human form and it could also work.

Yeah I plan on shaving a bit, then trying to go the black suit method. I would have ordered another set and done that, but I made a promise to finish the ones on my paint bench first before buying more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:
So if the tau ladies aren't being defended by forcefields, what are they using? Do their giant breasts fire lasers to shoot down incoming rounds?

Covered in my initial disclaimer within that same quote:

 Dark Severance wrote:
These designs aren't immature although a good portion of them are designed to be cheescake (instead of cheese) while others are legitimate designs.

 Ketara wrote:
There is absolutely no difference to Prodos here. Breasts don't make something immature, but sculpting pneumatic gravity-defying 36E tits onto almost every female model (covered or not) is clearly a trend here.

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that those are not 36E, I should know since my wife is 34GG. The number refers to the band size while the letter represents the cup size. Those rib cages are not 36 as you already pointed out the proportions are off as the waists are much smaller than 36. They would be closer to a C/D cup depending on the sculpt though with that in mind gravity defining factor into age, person, and we're assuming they were real and not genetically altered in any fashion. I mean given the amount of plastic surgery that happens on a regular basis, I'm surprised people are shocked that most people have implants in the far future. They do appear mega only because the waists are smaller and they need to be exaggerated as most features on a miniature do. I mean if we want to talk realistic what is the point of gigantic shoulder pads in the first place? They are there because you can put unit insignia on them, it serves for a representation not a practical nature.

 Ketara wrote:
It's not pinup, it's titillation for 14 year olds.

That is subjective. Why 14 year olds? No one else enjoys them? Although honestly I disagree that anyone buys them because of OMG breasts! If we actually logically think in only that direction, that means men/boys enjoy playing with men/boy figures because of some base nature. To some up a quote from my wife, "There is a reason she plays males in online games, if she is going to stare at an rear all day long then it will be one she likes to look at." I'm just saying that the reasons someone does something is subjective. However there are differences in sculpts, quality even among pinups and cheesecake. However again those are going to be subjective as well.

 foostick wrote:
Is there a reason the Genestealer Cult lads cruise round in mad limos?

If you take over the world, do it in style!

 Ketara wrote:

There is absolutely no difference to Prodos here. Breasts don't make something immature, but sculpting pneumatic gravity-defying 36E tits onto almost every female model (covered or not) is clearly a trend here.

I guess you never watched pr0n!
Be gone evil nudity!
Strange Mierce never gets much flak when they have male characters/monsters with their thingie visible.

Frankly Dark Severance, I wasn't paying close enough attention to the breasts of the models to try and size them up for a precise custom bra fitting. I just tossed out a reasonably large size I plucked at random. You are to be....commended, I suppose? for your attention to them.

Regardless, I'm not particularly interested in hashing out the 'subjectivities' of taste here. It would take more time and attention to philosophical debate than I currently possess, and I doubt I would convince you of anything. If your (or whoever buys these) taste is analogous with what I would consider to be that of a 14 year old, that's entirely your/their own affair. I was merely pointing out that the sculpts Prodos is being nailed to the mast for in another thread are just as egregious here, with virtually every female sculpt displaying silicon wonders which would be the envy of most of the pornographic industry. For what it's worth, having just shown them to my own girlfriend, she derided them as, 'sexist garbage'.

Oh, and I thoroughly disregard the idea that 'heroic' proportion sculpting means a girl needs knockers bigger than her head in order differentiate her as a woman on the table, in the same way the men don't require a third leg. If you like looking at pneumatic tits on your 28mm models, that's entirely fine, and your business. But trying to justify it as a sculpting necessity or 'tech-priests abhorring clothing as part of the flesh' or a matter of 'subjectivity' or whatever isn't fooling anyone. Just declare your love for absurdly proportioned women and move on.

Yep. They basically have huge silicone boobs because the sculptor thinks people will buy more models if they have huge silicone boobs than if they don't (sadly, they probably do). Making good pinups is an art, and you can look at Kingdom Death as an example of extremely well-sculpted and well-posed pinups that still have hugely exaggerated proportions. These models have ugly balloons stuck to their chests without any rhyme or reason, there is nothing sexy about them. The only one I would even consider calling an acceptable pinup would be the sitting Tau girl.

These ones are better sculpted than the BoobMarines from Space Rusade, and if the boobage and amount of skin was less exaggerated I might have considered purchasing some of the Not-AdMech models, but it's just a bit too much for me personally. I do like the mechanical integration into the exposed body on some of them, though. Some might actually still work decently if they were painted as black synskin.

The Not-Tau on the other hand... nope. Not for me.

I'm hoping to place an order with these guys in the near future actually. But for Not-Marine heads, Kastellan Heads and possibly some Thousand Sons parts.

I really like the Kastellan heads as well, they look great.

I have one of their twin power fist commissars, the decent one that is, perfect cast and all that. I'm also happy to see them selling the Warforge commissar, as I've always wanted to pick up a third one, but didn't want to buy from Warforge again as they quite honestly have some of the shittiest casting quality out there, whether it be metal or resin.

His Ebay store is empty :(

 Nocturnus wrote:
His Ebay store is empty :(

I don't buy from the ebay store but instead order directly from their official website.

€4 fixed shipping to anywhere in the world.

 BrookM wrote:
It's a WIP, so they could still be fine tuned down the road. However, this is the Mechanicum, they bolt things onto things all the time.

Not to mention their probable use of lots of silicon...

Was also thinking that the cars might be a little small for more than a Magus and a couple of bodyguards. Comparison pic confirms this somewhat.

T

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess you never watched pr0n!

I am not sure porn was ever the epitome of maturity. Actually, I think most of it is not really mature…

 Ketara wrote:
Frankly Dark Severance, I wasn't paying close enough attention to the breasts of the models to try and size them up for a precise custom bra fitting. I just tossed out a reasonably large size I plucked at random. You are to be....commended, I suppose? for your attention to them.

Regardless, I'm not particularly interested in hashing out the 'subjectivities' of taste here. It would take more time and attention to philosophical debate than I currently possess, and I doubt I would convince you of anything. If your (or whoever buys these) taste is analogous with what I would consider to be that of a 14 year old, that's entirely your/their own affair. I was merely pointing out that the sculpts Prodos is being nailed to the mast for in another thread are just as egregious here, with virtually every female sculpt displaying silicon wonders which would be the envy of most of the pornographic industry. For what it's worth, having just shown them to my own girlfriend, she derided them as, 'sexist garbage'.

Oh, and I thoroughly disregard the idea that 'heroic' proportion sculpting means a girl needs knockers bigger than her head in order differentiate her as a woman on the table, in the same way the men don't require a third leg. If you like looking at pneumatic tits on your 28mm models, that's entirely fine, and your business. But trying to justify it as a sculpting necessity or 'tech-priests abhorring clothing as part of the flesh' or a matter of 'subjectivity' or whatever isn't fooling anyone. Just declare your love for absurdly proportioned women and move on.

I'm glad some people have pointed this out!

I was going to trawl through the Prodos thread and pull all the morally outraged comments and repost them here - just for the sake of fair play. But I'm lazy and I have a job.

It seems like - if someone doesn't like a sculpting style, or the company botched a recent Kickstarter - they get an extra heaping of sanctimonious fire while other companies get a pass.

Personally - having no experience (good or bad) with either company - all of these models could be part of the exact same line to my eye.
Some of the admech stuff is really nice - but a lot of the rest looks not so great. Giant playdoh weapons on the Necron girls and others, oversize gravity defying cleavage etc.

Well, I guess it could be said that certain markets are not being ignored.
I LIKE the models but would like to see if a bit more clothing/body armor is available.
As a kid I really enjoyed Red Sonja but did raise the question of what is the need for an armored bikini.
I like to see more women in my wargames but would like to see the equipment they wear not too different from the men.
I like the variety in the models so gender and race I like to see appear a bit more in a "normal" fashion.
Every time this type of discussion comes up I keep thinking of this picture:

 Ketara wrote:
You are to be....commended, I suppose? for your attention to them.

It has nothing to do with attention as it is all about experience. ^_^ And not in that way either, I have had quite a bit of experience building cosplay armor. I've had to shape and build quite a few custom chest pieces for Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club. There have also been multiple debates over boob plate, functionality, comfort and to create custom plates or traditional diamond plates through the years on the forums there as well and within the 501st.

 Ketara wrote:
If your (or whoever buys these) taste is analogous with what I would consider to be that of a 14 year old, that's entirely your/their own affair.

You would probably be surprised, despite what I debate, what I have actually bought.

My issues with the Prodos sculpts are as I've said there: Want to go cheesecake and say they are shield and antigrav generators then I have no problem with that. However I do question why do we need a really big shield? Why do we need really big shoulder pads? Why do we need a loin cloth, isn't that going to get in the way of movement (I've never understood tabards personally in a scifi setting)? How is she being held in that powersuit, because those straps won't do it, are they there in addition to clamps bolted to a metal spinal column (allah Starcraft style)? Does the forcefield only stop projectile weapons and not melee weapons, does it stop acid or liquid and if it does, how does air get through? Those are my issues with the sculpts. For me the T&A aren't the issue, the designs just seem bad to me.

For the record too, I am not saying there are not bad sculpts in this batch either. Every line has good and bad sculpts. The detail in these sculpts compared to others are extradionary, breasts aside, and that is the simple difference between this and Space Crusade. Now that could be because of the paint jobs they showed, the resin casts that was shown later appeared a bit better but still lacks detail that I get with these.

Necroborg: I haven't bought them because I don't like the metal nipples. If they were at least simple smooth like Black Widow then I could do something with that but what is the point of nipples. I am tempted to buy Black Widow but not sure how it will look painted so have held off still.
Dark Elf: The sculpt isn't my thing but I've never really understood Slaanesh.
Imperial: The cars are awesome, I will be buying those and the bike. Eradicator squad I really like the detail except for the breasts, might be tempted to sand them and do black suit but haven't decided yet. The detail on the miniatures though is insane compared to most things on the market and that is why the sculpting is good. Some of the Female Commissars though I'd probably get Raging Heroes instead.
Space Marines: No complaints there, not much of a marines player though. I probably wouldn't pick up anything from there.
Battle Sisters: I do have an issue with some of the details here. Unlike the other sculpts in the other lines, some of th details in these appear way too busy. I think those were 'classically' sculpted instead of 3d like some of the newer ones and that may be what is making the difference. The rest of the models fit the theme but I've never been fond of GW Sisters of Repentia so I wouldn't buy this version either.
Chaos and Orks: I don't play either of these so I have no reference and can't really compare them to anything.
Tau: Veteran Ranger Gunslinger (bought), Female Commander (bought), Network Hacker (bought), Veteran Ranger Big Shas (bought). Might end up getting the Marauder and Female Veteran but don't have a role for them to take up at this time. The other Vengeance Squads and the naked sniper I'm not interested in.

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
You are to be....commended, I suppose? for your attention to them.

It has nothing to do with attention as it is all about experience. ^_^ And not in that way either, I have had quite a bit of experience building cosplay armor. I've had to shape and build quite a few custom chest pieces for Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club. There have also been multiple debates over boob plate, functionality, comfort and to create custom plates or traditional diamond plates through the years on the forums there as well and within the 501st.

 Ketara wrote:
If your (or whoever buys these) taste is analogous with what I would consider to be that of a 14 year old, that's entirely your/their own affair.

You would probably be surprised, despite what I debate, what I have actually bought.

Necroborg: I haven't bought them because I don't like the metal nipples. If they were at least simple smooth like Black Widow then I could do something with that but what is the point of nipples. I am tempted to buy Black Widow but not sure how it will look painted so have held off still.

I've bought the female overlord, no nipples are protruding, might just be how they look on the photo?

Ffyllotek wrote:
I've bought the female overlord, no nipples are protruding, might just be how they look on the photo?

Proturiding was probably the incorrect term for that particular set of models. They are smooth, but there are circles (grooves) that basically outline them giving that look and clearly identifying what they would be. Painting wouldn't simply mask or cover it, it would need some liquid green stuff to make it flush like Black Widow version.

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
It seems like - if someone doesn't like a sculpting style, or the company botched a recent Kickstarter - they get an extra heaping of sanctimonious fire while other companies get a pass.

That is not entirely true. Raging Heroes and Kingdom Death all had similar discussions, even the first few posts in this thread briefly touched on it. Some figures were a bit much and others were great sculpts and that was that.

In this thread we just have the discussion of those that like the miniatures, those that don't because of boobs, and then there is the cars which are really cool. That is pretty much it.

In the Prodos thread you have the above but a lot more than that which creates a lot more discussion. As it was already summed in that thread, there are multiple camps of posters in the Prodos thread.

1: Actually disliking the miniatures.
2: Liking the miniatures but being upset at the missed opportunity. Sisters players looking for good proxies go in here, but Prodos said they'll bring out armoured versions so this is a bit of a non issue unless you take issue with their poses, which aren't gritty combat stances - in which case that's number 1.
3: Virtue Signalling - being seen to reject what are admittedly highly sexualised toy soldiers for one of the following causes:
-- 3a: Moral outrage - sexuality is bad.
-- 3b: Social Justice - these women are sexy which reduces women to objects, women should only be sexy when they so choose and for reasons which I find valid.
-- 3c: Space marines are Serious Business - this reinforces the idea that wargamers are just lonely losers and now nobody will take my hobby of collecting and playing with toy space soldiers seriously.
4: Not erotic enough. Why stop at bare midriffs and thighs?
5: The armour is not logical. Rather than a resistance to the form, its a resistance to the lack of function. Whether the glaring vulnerabilities which could be waved away in fantasy setting's chain mail bikini or spine crushing weight the lack of support between the boots and chestplate would place on the girls shoulders, the internal inconsistency of power armored lingerie is too much to suspend disbelief. This ties in with 2.
6: Fans and Not-Fans of Prodos' other projects are either aggrieved that effort is going into this with promises unfulfilled elsewhere or advising others to be wary of said unfulfilled promises.
7: It isn't Space Crusade and thus childhood memories stained now with objectified boobs on armor.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess you never watched pr0n!

I am not sure porn was ever the epitome of maturity. Actually, I think most of it is not really mature…

It is a fantasy and especially in the 80's and 90's it was filled with ladies with the stick on basketball breasts, the point is that a lot of male have sexual fantasies about ladies with let's say unnatural measurements.

Still not exactly something very mature .

maturity is really subjective tbh.

You can be a 15 year old teenager with hormonses out the wazoo and look at a naked girl and say..that's crass (my nephew god bless him) but laugh at fart jokes like they are the height of comedy

Or you can be a very respected senior plant maintenance technician (actual job that pays ...alot) who is very respectable, polite, financially fiscal and politically motivated (all signs of maturity from the usual expectations) and have a room chock full of well... "ladies with the stick on basketball breasts" Who. happens to be my wife's frieind father.

I dislike the general forum consensus that all people who don't like sexually represented concepts are snooty social justice warriors and anyone who does is a immature 15 year old loser who cant get a date.

You can be very mature and like playboy bunnies quite alot. Heff sure did. Sexual interests do not parallel social maturity.

 Dark Severance wrote:
In this thread we just have the discussion of those that like the miniatures, those that don't because of boobs, and then there is the cars which are really cool. That is pretty much it.

In the Prodos thread you have the above but a lot more than that which creates a lot more discussion. As it was already summed in that thread, there are multiple camps of posters in the Prodos thread.

1: Actually disliking the miniatures.
2: Liking the miniatures but being upset at the missed opportunity. Sisters players looking for good proxies go in here, but Prodos said they'll bring out armoured versions so this is a bit of a non issue unless you take issue with their poses, which aren't gritty combat stances - in which case that's number 1.
3: Virtue Signalling - being seen to reject what are admittedly highly sexualised toy soldiers for one of the following causes:
-- 3a: Moral outrage - sexuality is bad.
-- 3b: Social Justice - these women are sexy which reduces women to objects, women should only be sexy when they so choose and for reasons which I find valid.
-- 3c: Space marines are Serious Business - this reinforces the idea that wargamers are just lonely losers and now nobody will take my hobby of collecting and playing with toy space soldiers seriously.
4: Not erotic enough. Why stop at bare midriffs and thighs?
5: The armour is not logical. Rather than a resistance to the form, its a resistance to the lack of function. Whether the glaring vulnerabilities which could be waved away in fantasy setting's chain mail bikini or spine crushing weight the lack of support between the boots and chestplate would place on the girls shoulders, the internal inconsistency of power armored lingerie is too much to suspend disbelief. This ties in with 2.
6: Fans and Not-Fans of Prodos' other projects are either aggrieved that effort is going into this with promises unfulfilled elsewhere or advising others to be wary of said unfulfilled promises.
7: It isn't Space Crusade and thus childhood memories stained now with objectified boobs on armor.

Yeah, that's a good list, but I disagree a bit because the OP seems incredibly dismissive of the idea that people ACTUALLY might find the models sexist and genuinely dislike that. He dismisses is as 'virtue signalling' and 'social justice' (a term pretty much only used by trolls).

I tend to think that there's not much difference between these and Prodos. These are SLIGHTLY nicer - it looks like the purpose of the female Mechanics was to do 'sexy pin-up tech priest' while the Prodos 'Boobinators' seem solely there for the boobs, but it's pretty much the same thing.

The difference, to my mind, is that this is a small, probably single-person, Ukranian recaster with very little industry penetration and visibility, selling a niche product on a tiny website. Prodos are now a small but established company, with lines of models for sale in FLGS around the world. That's why they're getting more flak - because we expect more responsibility from them.

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I guess it could be said that certain markets are not being ignored.
I LIKE the models but would like to see if a bit more clothing/body armor is available.
As a kid I really enjoyed Red Sonja but did raise the question of what is the need for an armored bikini.
I like to see more women in my wargames but would like to see the equipment they wear not too different from the men.
I like the variety in the models so gender and race I like to see appear a bit more in a "normal" fashion.
Every time this type of discussion comes up I keep thinking of this picture:

*Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid. I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now.

I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad. You know it's a drawing right? Not real, fake, imaginary, all of these and still its bad. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not as if your gonna buy the sanitized version. No wonder comics and games are in trouble. Go protest some actual problems you know like actual violence.

Hulk duckface/twerking cannot be unseen... ::shudders::

migooo wrote:
*Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid. I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now.

I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad.

Damn. I hate it when obsessive, creepy over-possessive fans of something consider that anyone having another idea on their favorite hobby must be an evil outsider that is both too stupid and unwilling to understand it. Also, comics + niche hobby = LOL. Next time it's video games that are going to be a niche hobby? Oh wait you already implied this too!
There are tons of people that are just as much into comics that you are, they are even comic artists, that share this criticism you deem so “idiotic”. Get a grip on reality.

Ok I have to admit after seeing one of the miniatures, that I listed as I wasn't going to buy, I might end up getting it. I will wait until I finish painting the others first. The painted version doesn't look that bad. She isn't just partly clothed as I didn't realize that her armor is around her. So this isn't a "this is what she wears into battle" type miniature, it is after the fight, cooling off or whatever you want to call it.



And apparently the discussion of breast size has now spread to Facebook:

Hey ho everyone. Something really interesting and IMPORTANT is happening now at the studio and I want YOU to become a art of it. ~
We've heard that some of our buyers write on the forum that they're not satisfied with a size of the "breast" of our miniatures. The majority consider it's too big.
Being a Page Admin (and a girl) means that I see a lot of those 3D\plastic boobies during the day and personally, I'd defend the original (big) size of our last hottie.
I ask you to join our discussion and share your thoughts about the size of miniatures' breast.
Thank you heart emoticon

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

migooo wrote:
*Twitch* okay that is idiotic that picture is so stupid. I've collected comics since the early 90s I saw greats such as power girl become nothing more than a SJW target to completely changing into that thing it is now.

I hate what people do to niche hobbies. They come in having perceived ideas not knowing anything about it but because they see a sexy woman its bad.

Damn. I hate it when obsessive, creepy over-possessive fans of something consider that anyone having another idea on their favorite hobby must be an evil outsider that is both too stupid and unwilling to understand it. Also, comics + niche hobby = LOL. Next time it's video games that are going to be a niche hobby? Oh wait you already implied this too!
There are tons of people that are just as much into comics that you are, they are even comic artists, that share this criticism you deem so “idiotic”. Get a grip on reality.

Wow . you know i never insulted you but thanks i know that anybody who tries to defend what they like is creepy or a creep.