Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys working on a chaos list need some insight.

So far this is what I got.

Chaos Lord w/ mark of nurgle, jump pack, black mace (HQ) 140 pts

Troops:

5 man plague marine squad w/ 2 plasma guns, champion with plasma gun as well 165 pts

5 man plague marine squad w/ 2 melta guns, champion with melta gun as well 150 pts

10 man cultist w/ flamer 55 pts

10 man cultist w/ flamer 55 pts

2 dedicated rhinos w/ havoc launchers 94 pts

Fast attack:

5 man raptor w/ 2 melta, champion with metla gun and melta bomb as well 130 pts

5 man raptor group (close combat weapons and bolt pistols) champion w/ melta bomb * Grouped with Chaos lord. 100 pts

1 heldrake with balflamer 170 pts

Heavy:

1 maulerfiend with lasher tendrils 135 pts

1 landraider with dozer blade and extra armor 245 pts

Elite:

1 helbrute with twin linked lascannons, and missile launcher 140 pts


NOTES: I know bikes are considered better than the raptors but I really don't have any bikes and I just don't like them in general. Most the boards I've played on as well have been city maps.

I want to build the army based on a nurgle deathguard feel. I started off with the terminators as well since I got some forge world for the termi's and the plague marines as well.

Honest opinions and ideas are welcome. Thanks for the help folks.

Looks balanced enough and covers all the bases. But a few things odd...

- You have a Land Raider. Why do you have a Land Raider? Not that Land Raiders are bad or anything. But you already have Rhinos for your Plague Marines. What can possibly be riding this thing?

- You have a Chaos Lord that I can Instant Death with almost any monstrous creature. A single Smash attack from an MC of S5 or higher will be an S10 AP2 hit that murders your Chaos Lord because he doesn't have an invuln. A bike would be better for him to prevent that but even if you stick with the jump pack (assuming he's deepstriking with raptors) you really want to give him an Invuln save if he's carrying a 45 point mace around.

- You have Havoc Launchers on your Rhino. The thing will get at least Crew Shaken every time it gets penetrated (which will be often and by almost any decent weapon) which means no Snap Shots. If you rush 12 inches towards an objective with it, you're again barred from using it. The Havoc Launchers will almost never be used all game. Instead, either go for a combi-melta upgrade, some dirge casters to help the plagues, or spend the points somwhere else.

- Helbrutes are almost never viable at 100 pts, let alone 140 pts. For the same price, just get a havoc squad with a TON of Lascannons. Or bring a Predator with three of them. Both would do more damage and survive longer than your sniping heavy weapon Helbrute.

 Arkaine wrote:
Looks balanced enough and covers all the bases. But a few things odd...

- You have a Land Raider. Why do you have a Land Raider? Not that Land Raiders are bad or anything. But you already have Rhinos for your Plague Marines. What can possibly be riding this thing?

- You have a Chaos Lord that I can Instant Death with almost any monstrous creature. A single Smash attack from an MC of S5 or higher will be an S10 AP2 hit that murders your Chaos Lord because he doesn't have an invuln. A bike would be better for him to prevent that but even if you stick with the jump pack (assuming he's deepstriking with raptors) you really want to give him an Invuln save if he's carrying a 45 point mace around.

- You have Havoc Launchers on your Rhino. The thing will get at least Crew Shaken every time it gets penetrated (which will be often and by almost any decent weapon) which means no Snap Shots. If you rush 12 inches towards an objective with it, you're again barred from using it. The Havoc Launchers will almost never be used all game. Instead, either go for a combi-melta upgrade, some dirge casters to help the plagues, or spend the points somwhere else.

- Helbrutes are almost never viable at 100 pts, let alone 140 pts. For the same price, just get a havoc squad with a TON of Lascannons. Or bring a Predator with three of them. Both would do more damage and survive longer than your sniping heavy weapon Helbrute.

thanks for the feedback.

1) the land raider. Most the stuff I got came from the Dark Veng. box, the crimson slaughter box (land raider) and a couple pieces that I purchased. So I had a land raider... was gonna use it with termi's but after I got them with marks of nurgle and power fist, they cost more than the land raider did... just too expensive for something that would get knocked out in a turn my mass grave guns. So I left the raider in as some heavy ass pounding armor.

2) other than the lord what could I run that would be worth it? I don't really like bikes so how could I give him an invuln save? Honest question. I'm new to the game, been painting for my of my career lol.

3) Everywhere I have read said that havoc launchers were just stupid good. Like 4 to 5 separate forum threads specifically about them. Idea was to get the rhino into position, dump the crew, then pull back and pound with the launcher on larger groups. I mean it's 12 points ...

4) True, I'm just trying to find a use for the 6 Dark vengeance hell brutes I got modeled lol. Don't have a single havoc, but was wanting to get a set then try to figure out how to model/rig them up with autocannons, but lascannons are good too


Any more feedback?

MitchellTyner wrote:
2) other than the lord what could I run that would be worth it? I don't really like bikes so how could I give him an invuln save? Honest question. I'm new to the game, been painting for my of my career lol.

A Chaos Lord has the option to buy either an Aura of Dark Glory or a Sigil of Corruption from the Chaos Rewards / Special Issue Wargear lists, either of which will give him an invuln.

The champions in your units cannot take Plasma Guns or Meltaguns, the best they can do is Combi-weapons (have a look at the Ranged Weapon list they can choose from on page 91).

Did you think about

mayhem pack formation:
total 3x Helbrute: total 300
3x multi-melta

They are fun to play and pretty strong with the special rules imo.

 Quanar wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
2) other than the lord what could I run that would be worth it? I don't really like bikes so how could I give him an invuln save? Honest question. I'm new to the game, been painting for my of my career lol.

A Chaos Lord has the option to buy either an Aura of Dark Glory or a Sigil of Corruption from the Chaos Rewards / Special Issue Wargear lists, either of which will give him an invuln.

The champions in your units cannot take Plasma Guns or Meltaguns, the best they can do is Combi-weapons (have a look at the Ranged Weapon list they can choose from on page 91).

Unless they were Chosen

Quanar wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
2) other than the lord what could I run that would be worth it? I don't really like bikes so how could I give him an invuln save? Honest question. I'm new to the game, been painting for my of my career lol.

A Chaos Lord has the option to buy either an Aura of Dark Glory or a Sigil of Corruption from the Chaos Rewards / Special Issue Wargear lists, either of which will give him an invuln.

The champions in your units cannot take Plasma Guns or Meltaguns, the best they can do is Combi-weapons (have a look at the Ranged Weapon list they can choose from on page 91).

Yeah on page 91, it says Ranged Weapons page 65 along with a couple combi bolters and a plasma pistol. So I took that to mean page 65 is the expanded list. Is that completely off the mark? I figured that if it was available to the rest of the squad the champion should be able to use it as well.

Demic25 wrote:Did you think about

mayhem pack formation:
total 3x Helbrute: total 300
3x multi-melta

They are fun to play and pretty strong with the special rules imo.

I have yet to see any formations for the hulbrute... just the standard codex entry. Where in the codex is that?

It is not in the codex it is a seperate dataslate but you don't really need to get that there are just a few rules to remember.

Mayhem Pack

What’s better than one Helbrute rampaging from your back lines across the wastes of war? Why three of course! And why not deep strike them in to maximise their threat? The Mayhem Pack allows you to take a formation of three Helbrutes and deep strike them onto the battlefield from reserve. There’s no additional cost for fielding this formation, but all Helbrutes that are fielded as part of a Mayhem Pack have to make a crazed roll (one roll affecting all pack members) at the beginning of each movement phase. It would appear that being held back from battle for ‘tactical’ reasons is not something that sits well with a psychotic, daemonic engine of destruction. Who knew?

So in short: a squad of 3 hellbrutes who share 1 reserve roll to come onto the table by deepstrike rules and roll 1 dice before the movement phaze on the crazed table.

Dataslate info:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://theshellcase.co.uk/2014/03/23/dataslate-helbrute-a-review/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iám working on my pack right now and since you are a nurgle fan maybe you like to take a peek

Hellbrute pics:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607449.page

My armylist:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/604020.page

Project Nurgle
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642738.page

 Demic25 wrote:
It is not in the codex it is a seperate dataslate but you don't really need to get that there are just a few rules to remember.

Mayhem Pack

What’s better than one Helbrute rampaging from your back lines across the wastes of war? Why three of course! And why not deep strike them in to maximise their threat? The Mayhem Pack allows you to take a formation of three Helbrutes and deep strike them onto the battlefield from reserve. There’s no additional cost for fielding this formation, but all Helbrutes that are fielded as part of a Mayhem Pack have to make a crazed roll (one roll affecting all pack members) at the beginning of each movement phase. It would appear that being held back from battle for ‘tactical’ reasons is not something that sits well with a psychotic, daemonic engine of destruction. Who knew?

So in short: a squad of 3 hellbrutes who share 1 reserve roll to come onto the table by deepstrike rules and roll 1 dice before the movement phaze on the crazed table.

Dataslate info:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://theshellcase.co.uk/2014/03/23/dataslate-helbrute-a-review/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iám working on my pack right now and since you are a nurgle fan maybe you like to take a peek

Hellbrute pics:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607449.page

My armylist:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/604020.page

Project Nurgle
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642738.page

Looks really good, like the green stuff work you did on the drake and brutes.

Where was the official listing of the formations from? I'm gonna see if I can find a PDF of it or something.

MitchellTyner wrote:

Quanar wrote:The champions in your units cannot take Plasma Guns or Meltaguns, the best they can do is Combi-weapons (have a look at the Ranged Weapon list they can choose from on page 91).

Yeah on page 91, it says Ranged Weapons page 65 along with a couple combi bolters and a plasma pistol. So I took that to mean page 65 is the expanded list. Is that completely off the mark? I figured that if it was available to the rest of the squad the champion should be able to use it as well.

Page 65 is the combined rules for all weapons, giving you their stats and special rules, but the list on page 91 is what Champions can choose from - if you were allowed free reign of page 65, you'd give them all Baleflamers, right?

The Helbrute formations are from this dataslate, released at the time the new model came out. They're quite decent from what I've heard.

 Quanar wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:

Quanar wrote:The champions in your units cannot take Plasma Guns or Meltaguns, the best they can do is Combi-weapons (have a look at the Ranged Weapon list they can choose from on page 91).

Yeah on page 91, it says Ranged Weapons page 65 along with a couple combi bolters and a plasma pistol. So I took that to mean page 65 is the expanded list. Is that completely off the mark? I figured that if it was available to the rest of the squad the champion should be able to use it as well.

Page 65 is the combined rules for all weapons, giving you their stats and special rules, but the list on page 91 is what Champions can choose from - if you were allowed free reign of page 65, you'd give them all Baleflamers, right?

The Helbrute formations are from this dataslate, released at the time the new model came out. They're quite decent from what I've heard.

I was figuring that if the standard trooper in the squad could get it then the champ could as well. None of the baleflamer lol, but melta's plasma's and the like. But the champ is stuck with a combi weapon it seems. Oh well it just freed up enough points for the chaos sigil you mentioned a while ago lol.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslates

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Helbrutes.html

Thank you for the compliments and hope my info helped you a bit.

If you have six helbrutes try and run a Helcult and a Murderpack

I could be wrong but isn't that 4 hellbrutes? and iám not sure if you can run 2 formations.

Nvm You are right.

Are Helbrutes even worth it?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Are Helbrutes even worth it?

With formations, yes.

is the mayhem the best to run?

They're all good, I suggest you get the dataslate for yourself and decide which formation you like the most.

Intercessor wrote:
They're all good, I suggest you get the dataslate for yourself and decide which formation you like the most.

very true.

So best idea for this army is to add the inv. save thing for the chaos lord so he doesn't insta die.
Look into running a dataslate formation for the helbrute?

So I've finished modeling a couple models for the army tonight. I'm rethinking my chaos lord, I might just use my forgeworld sorcerer as the HQ... I mean i kind of like the idea of it.







The forgeworld stuff is just very very detailed, going to be a pain to really paint up.

He looks very nice and magic is really strong in 40k right now so yeah going with a sorcerer makes a lot of sense.

You might want to give him some crimson slaughter relics.

Daeminheart 30 points
2+ armor save and the 'It Wil Not Die' special rule

This is normally how I kit my sorcerer.
Sorcerer: 180pts
Bike
Force Axe
Daemonheart
Spell Familiar
Mastery level: 3

Normally I roll on the Telepathy psychic power table and hope to get Invisibility and or shrouded and put it on my squad with spawn and sorcerer biker.

Not bad Demic25. I'm taking it that the daminheart is only in the Crimson slaughter book?

MitchellTyner wrote:
Not bad Demic25. I'm taking it that the daminheart is only in the Crimson slaughter book?

That is correct it is a Crimson slaughter relic.

Although if you are not going with a bike terminator armor is probably better with the 2+/5++

Honestly I was swayed and picked up a 3 man chaos bike squad... guess I'll try to figure out how to Chaos lord it out. Not really sure. Just so I have some I guess.

if i was forced to use my raptors this is how i would do it,

1. (if you dont mind using a little proxy) get max raptors, 2 flamers, mark of slaanesh, icon of excess, lord with mos, lightning claw and blade of relentless, then give him daemonheart, sigil and the helm

2. if you really want nurgle, max raptors, lord with daemon heart, sigil, helm , pf, lc ,blight grenades, 2 flmaers


now if you want a deathguard feel, ur doing it wrong, it needs to be more bodies and more tough, but if you want fast and tough go with this:

get the 3 helbrute formation and deep strike them all, take 2 formations of it

deepstrike your raptors

get a crap ton of oblits

take a coms relay and wait with plague marines until deepstrieks come in then bonzide charge