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But you can get "lots of shots" elsewhere in the codex though. Tactical Marines and Sternguard are still going to throw out more Bolter shots for the points.

Storm Bolters need more to differentiate them than just "more shots".

 Kavish wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
I have given this a lot of thought in recent months, and the balanced answer I believe is +1 toughness for wearing terminator armour and Storm bolters being assault 3. No point changes necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My other idea was to make combi-bolters actually two bolters in one weapon. Ie 2 shots at 24" and 4 shots at 12". Not twin-linked. Makes them balanced with the storm bolter so chaos don't get left in the dust again.

Still S4 shooting with no special rules. Useless.

Not at all. You'd be surprised how often I make important kills with bolt weapons. You just need lots of shots.

Then your opponents are using terrible units. Against most power units in the game, bolters are t-totally useless.

Martel732 wrote:


Still S4 shooting with no special rules. Useless.

And with this statement right here, you have summed up how GW has screwed over the game beyond fixing.

Its too bad too, terminators are such an iconic unit of the game. Its too bad that they can't be bothered to be fielded because of everything better that has come along.

Combat reflex
When wearing Terminator armor and equipped with Storm bolter.

When assaulting perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters (No modifiers) add SB hits to a succesful charge, failed charge discards the SB hits.

When being assaulted perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters, remove casualties measure if charge fails. (other weapons performs a norma loverwatch)

When being shoot at perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters.

If a friendly unit is being Charged/fired upon perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters against the attacking enemy model/unit.

First use of combat reflex comes at no penalty subsequent uses requires passing a leadership test which is reduced by one per use (for purpouses of using Combat reflex).

Would increase the utility of Terminators with Storm bolters without actually improving Storm bolters or Terminators survival without price changes.

 Jayden63 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Still S4 shooting with no special rules. Useless.

And with this statement right here, you have summed up how GW has screwed over the game beyond fixing.

Its too bad too, terminators are such an iconic unit of the game. Its too bad that they can't be bothered to be fielded because of everything better that has come along.

You'll get no argument from me. But terminators have never been good because of GW's incompetence at mathematics. No, not even in 2nd unless you were Chaos. And that's because of the weapon choices, not the armor. They still died like slime to massed shuriken weapons, etc. There is a real upper boundary on how good a T4 W1 model can be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bishop F Gantry wrote:
Combat reflex
When wearing Terminator armor and equipped with Storm bolter.

When assaulting perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters (No modifiers) add SB hits to a succesful charge, failed charge discards the SB hits.

When being assaulted perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters, remove casualties measure if charge fails. (other weapons performs a norma loverwatch)

When being shoot at perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters.

If a friendly unit is being Charged/fired upon perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters against the attacking enemy model/unit.

First use of combat reflex comes at no penalty subsequent uses requires passing a leadership test which is reduced by one per use (for purpouses of using Combat reflex).

Would increase the utility of Terminators with Storm bolters without actually improving Storm bolters or Terminators survival without price changes.

Still useless because its still just storm bolter. The stat line on the storm bolter is too gakky for anyone to care. Quit trying to make the storm bolter good on a 30+ point model. It's in the same game as the scatterbike, you can't do it.

Bishop F Gantry wrote:
Combat reflex
When wearing Terminator armor and equipped with Storm bolter.

When assaulting perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters (No modifiers) add SB hits to a succesful charge, failed charge discards the SB hits.

When being assaulted perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters, remove casualties measure if charge fails. (other weapons performs a norma loverwatch)

When being shoot at perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters.

If a friendly unit is being Charged/fired upon perform a twin linked overwatch with only Storm bolters against the attacking enemy model/unit.

First use of combat reflex comes at no penalty subsequent uses requires passing a leadership test which is reduced by one per use (for purpouses of using Combat reflex).

Would increase the utility of Terminators with Storm bolters without actually improving Storm bolters or Terminators survival without price changes.

I can see that rule being really good if you also get a psychic power that forces your opponent to forget about 18" of the range on a scatter laser and also replaces gargantuan creatures or av13 walkers with t3 creatures. Still not game breaking, but powerful in friendly or narrative games.

Is that last sentence the most boring cliche that people ever use in these threads?


The only way to make any kind of s4 including storm bolters good is to get people to take infantry competitively, and the only way to do that is to change the rules to allow them to reliably kill MCs, GCs, super heavies, and wraith-style stuff. Only when kabalites, guardians, basic marines, etc are good for something will storm bolters have something worth killing, and only after that can they even be worth buffing.