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Half the Titans with little to no mean to build more, of course the IOM's gonna have more Titans, especially after stuff like Vraks where the IOM blew up more Titans than they lost.

I never really got that impression at all. I am aware of their billions upon billions of slaves, but slaves don't win wars, nor do they replenish the limited amount of complex astartes equipment the CSM employ. I do agree that the CSM codex should incorporate a larger amount of human-built and crewed vehicles and war machines, because in reality, a chaos astarted force would only really serve as a vanguard, while the traitors and their constructs would be the force that actually holds objectives and maneuvers in large numbers against the enemy.

Like someone above said, the CSM don't have anywhere near the manufacturing capability as the IOM, so when they lose a titan or a battleship, that's literally it. They aren't getting any more unless they manage to capture them unscathed, and you can almost guarantee the IOM isn't going to just put their hands up and turn over their precious resources.

Even something like a rhino is a precious asset to the CSM. They may know how it works and have the knowledge of how to ghetto rig them to work after taking significant damage, but at a certain point, that vehicle is going to be totally unserviceable.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
We've been having this discussion for years, no offense. CSM are fundamentally limited in their abilities by the fact that literally everything they have is rare, stolen, or leftovers from the heresy era, including their Marines themselves. It's stressed in every piece of fluff that they have extremely limited resources, so it gives very little wiggle room as far as explaining their various conquests and crusades against the empire. The fluff almost makes you suspicious of them possibly being able to win, right? "how could they win against that enemy with so few Marines and no armored assets?""where did this rare relic come from? How did this relic last 10000 years?"

The one saving grace they have is that they have the warp, which is an atypical "random factor' plot device. It gives them a slight bit of creative freedom, ie, reinforcements from the warp, daemon incursion, ghostly CSM from beyond the void, etc.

I think they need to win some hard fought battles in the fluff against Space Marine chapters with large surpluses of power armor, land raiders, dreadnoughts, etc

Oh, I know CSM are outgunned, outmanned, and outclassed, Which is the main reason they appeal to me, Remember what i said about rooting for the underdog? i also think we can introduce more weapons without just saying we stole them from the loyalists. Ectoplasma Cannons reduced to troop size for havocs, give us our Kai gun back, etc.

 Mr_Piddlez wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
We've been having this discussion for years, no offense. CSM are fundamentally limited in their abilities by the fact that literally everything they have is rare, stolen, or leftovers from the heresy era, including their Marines themselves. It's stressed in every piece of fluff that they have extremely limited resources, so it gives very little wiggle room as far as explaining their various conquests and crusades against the empire. The fluff almost makes you suspicious of them possibly being able to win, right? "how could they win against that enemy with so few Marines and no armored assets?""where did this rare relic come from? How did this relic last 10000 years?"

The one saving grace they have is that they have the warp, which is an atypical "random factor' plot device. It gives them a slight bit of creative freedom, ie, reinforcements from the warp, daemon incursion, ghostly CSM from beyond the void, etc.

I think they need to win some hard fought battles in the fluff against Space Marine chapters with large surpluses of power armor, land raiders, dreadnoughts, etc

Oh, I know CSM are outgunned, outmanned, and outclassed, Which is the main reason they appeal to me, Remember what i said about rooting for the underdog? i also think we can introduce more weapons without just saying we stole them from the loyalists. Ectoplasma Cannons reduced to troop size for havocs, give us our Kai gun back, etc.

I don't disagree with that at all. That was one of the reasons I originally picked them up also. I just like the idea of a force that does more with less.

I read the word bearer trilogy later on and it really solidified my commitment to them.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

 Mr_Piddlez wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
We've been having this discussion for years, no offense. CSM are fundamentally limited in their abilities by the fact that literally everything they have is rare, stolen, or leftovers from the heresy era, including their Marines themselves. It's stressed in every piece of fluff that they have extremely limited resources, so it gives very little wiggle room as far as explaining their various conquests and crusades against the empire. The fluff almost makes you suspicious of them possibly being able to win, right? "how could they win against that enemy with so few Marines and no armored assets?""where did this rare relic come from? How did this relic last 10000 years?"

The one saving grace they have is that they have the warp, which is an atypical "random factor' plot device. It gives them a slight bit of creative freedom, ie, reinforcements from the warp, daemon incursion, ghostly CSM from beyond the void, etc.

I think they need to win some hard fought battles in the fluff against Space Marine chapters with large surpluses of power armor, land raiders, dreadnoughts, etc

Oh, I know CSM are outgunned, outmanned, and outclassed, Which is the main reason they appeal to me, Remember what i said about rooting for the underdog? i also think we can introduce more weapons without just saying we stole them from the loyalists. Ectoplasma Cannons reduced to troop size for havocs, give us our Kai gun back, etc.

I don't disagree with that at all. That was one of the reasons I originally picked them up also. I just like the idea of a force that does more with less.

I read the word bearer trilogy later on and it really solidified my commitment to them.

I agree completely there. I'd totally ok with a more generalized Chaos Codex more along the lines of IA13 with CSM sprinkled in. Just make our marines smart, scary, and stupid hard to kill. To really represent that long and bitter hatred they've had during the long war. Let the cultists and traitor guard do the objective camping, gun lines, and meat sheild jobs. If you really wanna argue that not all CSM are from the Legion days, then just make Chosen super scary bitter vets, and standard csm the new renegades to the fight. Not much stronger than a tactical squad, yet a little superior to represent the dark god's blessings. Points cost doesn't bother me as long as it can be justified. For example, Chosen should have Hatred (Space Marine) for free.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
I never really got that impression at all. I am aware of their billions upon billions of slaves, but slaves don't win wars, nor do they replenish the limited amount of complex astartes equipment the CSM employ. I do agree that the CSM codex should incorporate a larger amount of human-built and crewed vehicles and war machines, because in reality, a chaos astarted force would only really serve as a vanguard, while the traitors and their constructs would be the force that actually holds objectives and maneuvers in large numbers against the enemy.

Like someone above said, the CSM don't have anywhere near the manufacturing capability as the IOM, so when they lose a titan or a battleship, that's literally it. They aren't getting any more unless they manage to capture them unscathed, and you can almost guarantee the IOM isn't going to just put their hands up and turn over their precious resources.

Even something like a rhino is a precious asset to the CSM. They may know how it works and have the knowledge of how to ghetto rig them to work after taking significant damage, but at a certain point, that vehicle is going to be totally unserviceable.

This is simply not true at all... Within the Eye of Terror and the Maelstrom, there are entire Daemon Worlds that are the equivalent of Imperial Forgeworlds. The Iron Warriors home world of Medrengard for example. All they do is churn out new Chaos Marines, equipment & Daemon engines.
Likewise, the Dark Mechanicus and their Warpsmith allies. No longer shackled by the strict codes of Mars, they are forever experimenting and seeking how to combine the mortal, machine and daemonic into the perfect immortal super being.

On the Crone Worlds, Chaos Marines and their allies raid the hidden treasures of the ancient Eldar empire.

Creating new Chaos Marines is likewise a much simpler task for them as well... From besieging a planet that housed one of the Imperium's geneseed repositories, (upon Abaddon's orders, the Iron Warriors literally stole enough geneseed to create multiple Legions of new Marines!) To simply stealing the geneseed from fallen Space Marines, to using forbidden cloning & excelerated growth practices.
Again, because they don't follow the same strict rules as the loyalists do, Chaos Marines can clone many times more zygotes than their Imperial counterparts. While many of them fail, they can still produce new Marines at easily the same rate as the Imperium does.
And then there's the fact that over the Imperium's history, at least 50 entire Chapters are rumored to have fallen to Chaos. Meanwhile, entire companies or squads are corrupted on an ongoing basis.


Chaos Marines are definitely on the same level as their Imperial counterparts, except in the game where GW refuses to give us any toys so that Little Timmy can be kept happy and auto-winning against us.

Experiment 626 wrote:

And then there's the fact that over the Imperium's history, at least 50 entire Chapters are rumored to have fallen to Chaos. Meanwhile, entire companies or squads are corrupted on an ongoing basis.

Space Marines falling is an extremely rare event. 50 chapters sounds like a lot... then you remember it is during 10,000 years, which is about twice as long as today's recorded history!

 Ashiraya wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

And then there's the fact that over the Imperium's history, at least 50 entire Chapters are rumored to have fallen to Chaos. Meanwhile, entire companies or squads are corrupted on an ongoing basis.

Space Marines falling is an extremely rare event. 50 chapters sounds like a lot... then you remember it is during 10,000 years, which is about twice as long as today's recorded history!

Yes, yes... And then there's the whole "time flows differently within the Warp". 50 years to a Chaos Marine can easily turn out to be 1000+ years in 'real space'. So while 50 Chapters across 10,000 years may seem trivial, once they reach the Eye or the Maelstrom or any other world within the Warp, time becomes a meaningless factor.

The point is, people were claiming that Chaos Marines are super rare and cannot replace lost/broken equipment, which is completely false. Chaos Marines easily have the exact same production abilities & resources that their loyalist counterparts have, if not better because they've thrown the rules & restrictions of the Imperium out the window!

Yes, that is true.

Apparently someone needs to remind GW about that fact however.

Not only that, but there are more CSMs than more people seem to realise.

Officially the Red Corsairs are the size of an average Space Marine Legion (~100,000), the Word Bearers are around the 8,000-10,000 strong (if not more, the fluff just states that there are 8 hosts with the largest being 2,000 strong and the smallest being Chapter-sized) and the Black Legion are ~80,000+ (depending on the actual size of the Word Bearers, since the fluff states the Black Legion is ~10x a larger than the Word Bearers) Without considering the other legions and their warbands (and even the splinter warbands of the Word Bearers, Black Legion and Red Corsairs) and other warbands in general, that's 1/5 of every Loyalist Marine that exists in 41M.

Agree with idea of seperating renegades with the actual veterans who may have been fighting for millenia. These veterans should all be like chosen in apperance and stats, and should be able to outclass a normal space marine. The downside is they are rare and mostly rely on subterfuge, raids and cults- matter of fact, the dark vengeance chaos force is a really good example of what to me a typical chaos force should be like.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Not only that, but there are more CSMs than more people seem to realise.

Officially the Red Corsairs are the size of an average Space Marine Legion (~100,000), the Word Bearers are around the 8,000-10,000 strong (if not more, the fluff just states that there are 8 hosts with the largest being 2,000 strong and the smallest being Chapter-sized) and the Black Legion are ~80,000+ (depending on the actual size of the Word Bearers, since the fluff states the Black Legion is ~10x a larger than the Word Bearers) Without considering the other legions and their warbands (and even the splinter warbands of the Word Bearers, Black Legion and Red Corsairs) and other warbands in general, that's 1/5 of every Loyalist Marine that exists in 41M.

How are 40k Word Bearers so few? O.o

They were a good 200,000 in the Heresy era.

I like to think that for many Chaos Marine Legions, it's only been around 200-300 years since the Heresy, because of the Eye of Terror, which would explain why they are still full going against the Imperium. It would also explain why there's so long between each crusade - There's really not all that long between each Crusade, maybe a few years, but that means that the Imperium had around 30-40+ years to prepare.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Not only that, but there are more CSMs than more people seem to realise.

Officially the Red Corsairs are the size of an average Space Marine Legion (~100,000), the Word Bearers are around the 8,000-10,000 strong (if not more, the fluff just states that there are 8 hosts with the largest being 2,000 strong and the smallest being Chapter-sized) and the Black Legion are ~80,000+ (depending on the actual size of the Word Bearers, since the fluff states the Black Legion is ~10x a larger than the Word Bearers) Without considering the other legions and their warbands (and even the splinter warbands of the Word Bearers, Black Legion and Red Corsairs) and other warbands in general, that's 1/5 of every Loyalist Marine that exists in 41M.

How are 40k Word Bearers so few? O.o

They were a good 200,000 in the Heresy era.

No idea why. Though the 8,000-10,000 is just a rough estimate on my part. If they're smaller than that... you have to ask why the Red Corsairs are better at recruiting Marines than the big bad Abaddon.

A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves. World eaters, Death guard, thousand sons, Emperor's children, and night lords are all shattered into roving bands of mixed of marines. point in case, the top 2 CSM armies (by size) are the black legion (a huge mix of sons of Horus and "recruited marines", and then Huron's red corsairs, a Chapter that recruited a whole lotta marines. with these 2 armies, there is no way you could have a single "legion tactic." It's a nice thought, but not really fitting in the fluff in my opinion.

I think they need to flesh out the rest of chaos: add in the beastmen, non-aligned daemons, actual plastic heretics and renegades, etc. It would all be fluff friendly, and look pretty cool, all things considered.

 Brennonjw wrote:
A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves. World eaters, Death guard, thousand sons, Emperor's children, and night lords are all shattered into roving bands of mixed of marines. point in case, the top 2 CSM armies (by size) are the black legion (a huge mix of sons of Horus and "recruited marines", and then Huron's red corsairs, a Chapter that recruited a whole lotta marines. with these 2 armies, there is no way you could have a single "legion tactic." It's a nice thought, but not really fitting in the fluff in my opinion.

I think they need to flesh out the rest of chaos: add in the beastmen, non-aligned daemons, actual plastic heretics and renegades, etc. It would all be fluff friendly, and look pretty cool, all things considered.

I think it depends on which legions we are talking about.

Alpha legion, for example, could easily be one of the largest legions and is still somewhat organized.
Night lords, while fragmented, still some to fight using their old tactics and culture (at least if the books are anything to go by).
Iron Warriors are organized. Black Legion is organized on occasion. 1k Sons are fragmented but still operate as a legion.

I think the main problem is that not a lot of people get into CSM for the pirate marines. Most of us like a legion or two, or really like the idea of Chaos.
It'd be like if the Loyalists focused on the successor chapters (who vastly outnumber groups like DA and BA, never mind Raven Guard) instead of the original guys. That's not what drew people into loyalists.


It'd be nice if Chaos was a between level of personal power in regards to loyalists and Grey Knights. Right now it seems that people turn to chaos to become weaker, and that just doesn't make sense fluff wise.
Gameplay wise, I wouldn't mind a mixing of marks and legion rules per squad (can't buy both unless word bearers or something). I'd like more exotic weapons and the sarges should be the strongest in the game. I wouldn't mind them being a relatively small army backed up by cultists or demons to augment numbers (since....well its how they are kinda shown in the fluff anyway).

 Brennonjw wrote:
A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves.

The fluff has also pointed out for the longest time that the loyalist legions were shattered and splintered into warbands, most of them not much larger than 1,000 marines strong. And, with the exception of the Ultramarines legion, they bear little to no resemblance to their former selves. And yet they all get special snowflake rules. Funny that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
It'd be nice if Chaos was a between level of personal power in regards to loyalists and Grey Knights. Right now it seems that people turn to chaos to become weaker, and that just doesn't make sense fluff wise.
Gameplay wise, I wouldn't mind a mixing of marks and legion rules per squad (can't buy both unless word bearers or something). I'd like more exotic weapons and the sarges should be the strongest in the game. I wouldn't mind them being a relatively small army backed up by cultists or demons to augment numbers (since....well its how they are kinda shown in the fluff anyway).

That could never work. The goodguy has to defeat the badguy in single combat for The Narrative to be Forged. The badguy can look like he's going to win, but in the end he has to lose. Unfortunately it's impossible to reflect this on the tabletop without using loaded dice.







GW should make loaded dice.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves.

The fluff has also pointed out for the longest time that the loyalist legions were shattered and splintered into warbands, most of them not much larger than 1,000 marines strong. And, with the exception of the Ultramarines legion, they bear little to no resemblance to their former selves. And yet they all get special snowflake rules. Funny that.

That actually makes sense that loyalists in semi isolated warbands would develope unique tactics despite adhering to a single codex of doctrines, while traitors in roving warbands would take on traits of whichever cult of personality they fall into. Guess GW did that one right.

SJ

I actually am hoping that FW puts out something similar to their renegades and heretics rules for legions. ie the warlord choice has a bunch of options which unlocks different playstyles which are significantly different from each other and also marks (or no mark) which unlock that mark's units. Chapter tactis like the SM codex would also be cool but IMO a bit harder as there are not as many clear dividing lines anymore for legion warbands as there still are for chapters.

Another cool alternative take would be something similar to the new eldar corsair's detachment going around where each detachment represents a faction within the warband and each detachment gets different special rules to represent this.

Mostly though CSM need a cheap assault transport, large squad caps on things like oblits, and a wide spread pts tweak.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves.

The fluff has also pointed out for the longest time that the loyalist legions were shattered and splintered into warbands, most of them not much larger than 1,000 marines strong. And, with the exception of the Ultramarines legion, they bear little to no resemblance to their former selves. And yet they all get special snowflake rules. Funny that.

That actually makes sense that loyalists in semi isolated warbands would develope unique tactics despite adhering to a single codex of doctrines, while traitors in roving warbands would take on traits of whichever cult of personality they fall into. Guess GW did that one right.

SJ

So loyalists who all follow a standard set of rules codified in a single document should all fight differently and traitors who have no rules or set organization should all fight the same? Got it.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
A bit off topic, but Yes, legion rules would be cool, but the fluff points out (and has pointed out for the longest time) that most of the legions are so shattered and splintered that there is little to no resemblance left to their former selves.

The fluff has also pointed out for the longest time that the loyalist legions were shattered and splintered into warbands, most of them not much larger than 1,000 marines strong. And, with the exception of the Ultramarines legion, they bear little to no resemblance to their former selves. And yet they all get special snowflake rules. Funny that.

That actually makes sense that loyalists in semi isolated warbands would develope unique tactics despite adhering to a single codex of doctrines, while traitors in roving warbands would take on traits of whichever cult of personality they fall into. Guess GW did that one right.

SJ

So loyalists who all follow a standard set of rules codified in a single document should all fight differently and traitors who have no rules or set organization should all fight the same? Got it.

... Wow. Dude, right on the nail. Exalted.

I think they've made them too much like simply bad space marines, time was when chaos was vile, the gods perverted humans into despicable mutated horrors. Khorne's were dog faced, blood red killers. Nurgle's were vile rotting filth unrecognisable as humans. Tzeentch's were sorcerous and incredibly mutated with all manner of odd growths. Slaanesh's were ugly with horns and claws but still irresistible with their musk and pheromones. Now CSM are just marines with spikes. They should have motivations which are not conquest or political machinations but inexplicable and driven by their own unknowable mutated psyche. They shoud not be separated from daemons but one force. Personally I would have only mono god forces if people want that.

I would throw in legion tactics to show the different fighting patterns of the legions. Retain god marks for those who are devoted to their gods. Just one special rule per legion would be fine, e.g. for the sake of argument Iron Warriors get stubborn, Night Lords get shrouded or infiltrate, etc, etc.

However, I think GW are a bit leery or chaos as they are currently shying away from anything too adult in theme. Making chaos too horrific and making daemons truly horrible not shiny silly looking pink horrors would risk their family friendliness. Why not a kid's and an adult version of the CSM dex?

Isengard wrote:
However, I think GW are a bit leery or chaos as they are currently shying away from anything too adult in theme. Making chaos too horrific and making daemons truly horrible not shiny silly looking pink horrors would risk their family friendliness. Why not a kid's and an adult version of the CSM dex?

You may of just hit the nail on the head. Sometimes I forget GW tries to market this game to be family friendly. You know, with all the violence, betrayal, violence, dark themes, and violence. I can see where Slaaneshi sex cults is where they draw the line. Good thing there is no particular dark space elf army with spandex armor that is all about rape, drugs, slavery, violence, and terrorizing innocents... oh wait....

Sounds like making the actual csm more scary and 'chaosy' is a popular move- now if gw made some new models to match we wpuld be laughing.
If cultists and heretics were to be a bigger part, both gor fluff and holding objectives etc, what should be done to make them less like having imperial guard? The cultist models are pretty good, so how about bulking them out with a rogue psycher squad and some mad max style customised vehicles with cultist crew? How popular would it be to roar WITNESS ME KHORNE as you hurl your cultists into assault!

Maybe they just need a new focus. The four gods are fine, but perhaps they could have a tangible objective for chaos either than the Cadian gate.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I think there is an error in how people preceive the 40k setting. The truth is, the Imperium of Man is the main villain. Chaos is fighting for survival, as the Imperial Truth would have ended them if it had caught on. Traitor Marines simply had an issue with management. Orks just want to live and let die. Nids are hungry. Eldar just want to be left alone. Tau are trying to bring peace to the universe.

Look at how the Imperium treats its own citizens, and tell me that's not evil.

SJ

You do realize that there is no "Imperium" outside of the concept, right? in-universe, the IoM acts more like a hegemony; they dominate, receive tithes, and don't give a feth about how you treat your citizens unless you stop paying your tithes. The Imperium can only be considered an "Empire" during the GC, as that was when the Adeptus Terra actually had a hand in the goings-on of your everyday Imperial citizen. But it doesn't anymore. You have liberal capitalist utopias and totalitarian stalin-esque regimes alike (and everything in between). It's the "bloodiest regime imaginable" only if you ignore the mountains of fluff detailing agri-worlds, Ultramar (and similar Civilized Worlds and Meritocracies), Paradise Worlds, etc. Sure the military's fethed the hell up, but it's not like it's without reason (after all, you never know if just one Guardsmen in that regiment is posessed, and one is all it takes to take down a planet, a System, a Sub-Sector, a Sector even)

 dusara217 wrote:
You do realize that there is no "Imperium" outside of the concept, right? in-universe, the IoM acts more like a hegemony; they dominate, receive tithes, and don't give a feth about how you treat your citizens unless you stop paying your tithes. The Imperium can only be considered an "Empire" during the GC, as that was when the Adeptus Terra actually had a hand in the goings-on of your everyday Imperial citizen. But it doesn't anymore. You have liberal capitalist utopias and totalitarian stalin-esque regimes alike (and everything in between). It's the "bloodiest regime imaginable" only if you ignore the mountains of fluff detailing agri-worlds, Ultramar (and similar Civilized Worlds and Meritocracies), Paradise Worlds, etc. Sure the military's fethed the hell up, but it's not like it's without reason (after all, you never know if just one Guardsmen in that regiment is posessed, and one is all it takes to take down a planet, a System, a Sub-Sector, a Sector even)

Actually this is how most empires throughout history function. When you cover vast distances you have to give a lot of leeway to your regional governments. In fact there are a huge number of indicators that the IoM is partially based on the British Empire pre American Revolution.

The IoM also has a large number of agents that wander around with complete immunity to the local laws and the authority to exterminate entire planets and solar systems. The IoM is a very real and present power. There is in fact agents in every IG army that are taught IoM propaganda as their entire belief system and monitor the actions of the soldiers, commanders, and any local officials in contact. They are called commissars.

The reason it is the "bloodiest regime imaginable" is that IoM agents show up to your peaceful world and demand tithe of whatever you produce, any psyker children, and usually large numbers of soldiers. They then throw the resources into their endless wars, sacrifice the children to a golden idol, and the soldiers they demand will usually come back with more than 70% casualties decades later if they come back at all. On top of this many world have Ork or other alien infestations or chaos cults they are constantly fighting with. The setting is incredibly bloody and the IoM actively makes it worse. There are bright spots like ultramar but they are a notable exception with trillions living in conditions Stallin would shudder at.

 ansacs wrote:
The setting is incredibly bloody and everyone actively makes it worse. There are bright spots like ultramar but they are a notable exception with trillions living in conditions Stallin would shudder at.

Fixed that for you

 Bobthehero wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
The setting is incredibly bloody and everyone actively makes it worse. There are bright spots like ultramar but they are a notable exception with trillions living in conditions Stallin would shudder at.

Fixed that for you

Fair enough. Though it should be everyone except papa nurgle. He just wants you to be happy...forever unchangingly happy.