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 Ghaz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

Yeah they've become $11AUD for 24ml in Australia compared to $6 for 12ml before.

Feth that for a joke, I guess I won't be buying any GW shades ever again. Sure, it's nice to have larger bottles on paints you run out of more frequently, but you can't just increase the price per bottle so dramatically because it's also important to have a selection of paints you might not use quite as frequently. Army Painter washes are RRP $6 for 18ml so are both cheaper per ml AND cheaper per bottle AND I can get them for $4.50 anyway. GW aren't even competing.

Price increase You're getting the same amount you would in two of the smaller pots for a dollar less so they've dropped the price.

The only way this isn't a price increase is if the purchaser was intending to buy two of the same shade. Literally every other sensible scenario results in the buyer being required to spend more money than previously.

Citadel is one of the only paint ranges I can walk in off the street and buy without making a special effort, so with limited rack space, I don't purchase multiples, therefore, to me, it is a price increase.

Talking of racks, do the new larger bottles have the same footprint and are just taller, or have they got fatter too? Cause fatter means they won't fit in my paint rack.

Washes run out pretty quickly for me, so that makes it a net positive.

I use so much agrax that bigger pots are a godsend. I was toying with the idea of filling up a jam jar with the stuff!

I use it almost every piece of 6mm scenery I make.

Shame about dark reaper. I just brought two pots as its wonderful for my space wolves snow bases, for a slightly cold blue tone. Oh well. I will have to try something else, and keep them for finishing the stuff I have done so far.

I use tons of Agrax and Nuhln oil, so those are definitely a savings for me.

For the washes that you don't use much of: Azreal13 has a point in that if you're going to use 1ml every year, buying a 24ml bottle is effectively a price increase, because that pot might not be good for 24 years, and will you still be painting minis?

I still have my original black-topped washes for a few of them, and I'll probably never finish them. I personally just don't have a lot of use for Druchii Violet and probably won't use 24ml in my entire life, which isn't a reflection of its quality, just of what I paint. The only reason I've replaced my Serraphim Serra is because I knocked one over by accident >.<

On the other hand, nobody gave Vallejo a hard time when they came out with the airbrush metallics in big pot size and charged way more than double the price ($12 each here). Frankly, I'll never use a whole big jar of a lot of them, and buying the whole set of 10 paints or so cost a lot more than the small droppers, which I would have been happy with for all the colors other than gunmetal.

But, whatever. The old pots will be there at the stores for a long time, and if you don't want to invest in a big pot, just buy one of the old stock It's not like these things dry up, and unlike the paint pots, the wash pots don't get gummed up or require cleaning over time.

Its not really a price increase, they're just selling you more than you need (or want) to buy. If they were to sell a 6ml pot of shade for $2.50 would you say that's a price decrease from the $4.25 for the 12ml pot? I don't think so.

 Ghaz wrote:
Its not really a price increase, they're just selling you more than you need (or want) to buy. If they were to sell a 6ml pot of shade for $2.50 would you say that's a price decrease from the $4.25 for the 12ml pot? I don't think so.

It's a price increase in the context of cost per bottle. It's a price decrease in terms of cost per ml.

When it comes to hobby paints, I almost always prefer a low cost per bottle over a low cost per ml, and best case scenario is to have low cost per bottle AND low cost per ml.

GW shades just went from being only slightly more expensive per bottle compared to Army Painter to now being more than twice the price per bottle of Army Painter, and STILL aren't less per ml either.

So n other words damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 Ghaz wrote:
So n other words damned if they do and damned if they don't.

What? No. Of course not. Don't be silly and obtuse.

GW don't compete on either price per bottle nor price per ml. Compared to their competition they only marginally improved their price per ml and massively hurt their price per bottle.

In the past I've defended GW's paints because at the end of the day they had a similar price per bottle as other paints when people compared them to other companies that sold at a better price per ml. And (in my case for many years) they had better availability.

It now costs $132AUD to own the full range of shades from GW, up from $72AUD previously. You're less likely to run out now but that extra $60 would have gone a long way to replacing the Agrax and Nuln that people go through more frequently than all the others.

On the up side, hopefully people will look more to alternatives for their washes. There's a lot of good options out there these days.

the problem is that not all washes behave the same, just as not all acrylics paints have the same finish, different brands of washes have different finishes...
if one company's paints have a finish that i don't like, then the cheaper price means absolutely nothing...
all paints are not created equal...

personally, i like the bigger bottles for things like washes, varnish, and primer...
they are gonna get used on every mini, so why not have twice as much for a buck less???

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
the problem is that not all washes behave the same, just as not all acrylics paints have the same finish, different brands of washes have different finishes...
if one company's paints have a finish that i don't like, then the cheaper price means absolutely nothing...
all paints are not created equal...

I used Army Painter as an example largely because Army Painter behave very much like the old GW washes.

I can appreciate buying the paints you like regardless of price... at a quick count I have paint from a dozen companies on my shelf and I don't think ANY of them I bought simply because they were the cheapest. But honestly, 95% of purchases are from people who would be equally as happy with one of half a dozen options when it comes to washes. I would think for most people the reason they are buying a GW wash over any other wash is simply because they are in a GW store being told how awesome their washes are or are following someone's tutorial/advice online who said they used GW washes.

personally, i like the bigger bottles for things like washes, varnish, and primer...
they are gonna get used on every mini, so why not have twice as much for a buck less???

cheers
jah

Varnish and primer I agree with but washes? Really? I mean, I've gone through plenty of Brown and Black wash, but the other washes in my collection have typically dried out before I got through the whole bottle. They're still worth having in the collection, but I wouldn't think most people go through heaps of them. I use a blue wash on my Tyranid carapace but 2000pts of nids and I've still only used 1 bottle of it and green wash on my Ork's flesh but there again I've not even gone through 1 bottle of Army Painter's green wash.

The only washes I have gone through in large amounts (more than 1 bottle) over the past couple of years has been Army Painter's strong tone and dark tone (similar to Devlan Mud and Badab Black) because they tend to be all-over washes.

i can only speak for myself, not the 95% of other purchases out there, but i have taken to using my Leviathan Purple wash on bases, and my Ogryn Flesh wash on bases and parchments...
after over 6 years of the pots sitting around, they were still in perfect working order when i finally decided to bust them out last year...
now, in a year, i have used them all up...
that goes to show me that twice the amount of purple and flesh wash would do me just fine, as long as the current washes have the same matte finish as the previous formula...
i'm willing to give them a whirl...

cheers
jah

Sorry, "dried out" was an exaggeration, I more so meant "darkened considerably because the medium was evaporated significantly". I could revive them with more medium, but then I might as well just make my own wash, lol. I've always found if I stop painting my nids for a year or so (who rely heavily on a devlan mud wash) and use an old pot instead of a fresh pot, they come out significantly darker than the others. My blue wash which is several years old doesn't go on smoothly unless I thin it heavily.

And it's not the volume that bothers me, it's the price per bottle. I have some Tamiya washes that came in 40ml bottles which is awesome.... they still only cost me $8AUD.

Humbrol washes are also expensive at $11 a pot and I have avoided them for the same reason, but they still manage to beat GW on price per ml. In the UK Humbrol washes are a bit cheaper at 4GBP RRP compared to 4.55GBP for the GW ones.

For those of you who were worried about Dawnstone, from 'What's New Today' for 16th November 2015:

Indeed, the colour Dawnstone is now available as an Air Paint, a Layer Paint and a Dry compound...

So your Dawnstone Layer Paint is safe. I wish I could say the same for my Thunderhawk Blue

@Skink - if you paint a lot of terrain, you go can through BUCKETS of wash. When I did my sector imperialis boards, I think I went through 5+ each of Nuhln and Agrax.

The problem, really, is that there are some washes that you only use a tiny bit of; while other washes you gobble up. The best solution would be for GW to have BOTH the small and large size washes, but I don't think that will happen, given the space requirements on the rack and the number of washes.

@Ghaz - Yeah, I couldn't have imagined GW killing off Dawnstone. I'm very happy that it's available as dry, actually: that will save me tons of paint, as the Dry compounds go way further than layer paints, when you're using them to drybrush. And again, for terrain, dawnstone is just key color for highlighting up stone/greys.

Terrain painting, particular full boards, is right around the time when making your own wash really pays off.

I say this as a person that generally buys washes, but if you have a full board, a bottle of medium, a little flow release, and artist's ink really comes in cheaper.

On topic: I personally don't use GW paints, but I'm bummed for those that do to have to fear losing paints. While it looks like the current range is here to stay, I do recommend looking to some more stable ranges for the long haul.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Talking of racks, do the new larger bottles have the same footprint and are just taller, or have they got fatter too? Cause fatter means they won't fit in my paint rack.

That's a good point. Whilst I'm all for bigger bottles of wash (I splatter it on everything), my paints-case isn't that deep so it's likely it won't fit with my other citadels (too tall) or my vallejos (too wide). I might start using it and improvise if I ever run out of Army Painter though.

 Polonius wrote:
Terrain painting, particular full boards, is right around the time when making your own wash really pays off.

Terrain is when I bust out the $1 craft paints and the Minwax.

Yeah I feel like you're just burning money if you use GW washes for terrain. You'd have to absolutely LOVE how they work to waste the money on it when there's lots of alternatives that are cheaper per ml. Even if you don't want to make your own wash, there are other washes that are cheaper per ml.

That's my problem with the upsized GW washes.... they still aren't cheaper per ml than the competition AND they're also expensive per bottle.

Before they sucked on price per ml, but at least they weren't too bad on price per bottle. Now they just suck at both.

I'm not disparaging the people who like the upsized bottles, but overall it seems more negatives than positives to me.

I use it for plastic terrain pieces, but not for boards.

I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

And now I have like 4 pots of Dawnstone because I went out and panic bought

... and I'm probably gonna get the dry pigment one too when I paint up my Garden of Morr

In the past 5 years GW has made more money from me panic buying things I thought were going out of production than they have me actually buying things I directly want. Luckily I've broken that habit now and have learned to avoid GW things in the first place.... though if they revive specialist games they might actually have me back again

 Bottle wrote:
I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

Oh good, a solution that results in the purchase of even greater quantities of wash that aren't necessarily needed.

It was an easy fix, keep the originals, offer larger pots at a small discount for those with greater need. Everyone's happy.

Well, except the one guy who's about to respond with some deeply personal reason why this wouldn't work for him.

i'm sure there will be plenty of small bottles available from the retailers who have them on hand right now...
i can't see there being a huge run on washes simply due to GW giving you more of what you need in the new bottles...

@Azreal13: i don't think that two sizes would be a problem, but it doesn't seem to be GW's m.o. to give cheaper choices on products...
go all in, or go home, seems to be the business philosophy...

cheers
jah

The two sizes could be a problem for the independents who have to stock them, especially if their space is limited.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

Oh good, a solution that results in the purchase of even greater quantities of wash that aren't necessarily need.

I meant more so, you can buy 1 shade box to get you started and after that any you get through at a considerable pace you can buy the bigger bottles. It works for me, I still have the old old bottles for stuff like the Green Shade (Thraka Green) as I went through them so slowly. Things like Agrax Earthshade and Nuln Oil I go through weekly.

New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

Dark reaper I do use for my AdMech but not in huge quantities. Definitely looking forward to the larger bottles of wash

 Talys wrote:
New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

Keeping in mind the source, we have a 50/50 chance of it being true Yeah, I'll be fne with this if it is true.

the key's going to be if they are moving to online only but only while current stocks run down,

or moving to online only with fresh production runs as nessesary

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the key's going to be if they are moving to online only but only while current stocks run down,

or moving to online only with fresh production runs as nessesary

The paints aren't online only on the website yet, and obviously stores have stock. I doubt it would be worth the effort for independents to round up the paints to send back; dunno about GW stores. That being said, GW sent the stores new paint arrangement layouts for the paint racks.

I got the new 24 ml Agrax/nuhln a couple days ago... AWESOME, imo. Also, all the new dry paints. I actually picked up the dry paint set, which comes with 6 new dry, 4 old dry (but good ones like Necron compound and terminatus stone) and a small drybruah for almost free. Then the other 7 dry paints that aren't direct only.

My first thoughts - it's really nice that there are darker dry paints now. Some of the colors like the brown, grey (dawnstone) and the one that looks like moot green are really welcome. I'm excited to check out Signmarite, as I never really liked golden griffon (at least not the way I liked Necron compound). I know a lot of people go "what's the point of dry paints?", but I really like them -- one pot goes so far compared to layer or base.