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nd then the meta is basically bike armies everywhere or flying spam, wow thats some realy diversity of armies right there with everyone basically drinking the same two flavours of kool-aid.

well the current meta is for the "chosen" armies to have super awesome formations that mean they are obscenely powerful compared to those without them.....and/or giant Walkers pretending to be Creatures

Imperial Guard used to have bikes - I still have one of them, but they took them away (and Land Raiders, and Rhinos and........well you get the picture) so that the Marines could look more that much more impressive......................and of course unique........

Because they can read the codex...

IG are underpowered. And tbh, they are kind of meant to be, they're just average (by 40K standards) men.

They're not superhumans, or super-psyonic xenos, or uber-adaptable xenos, or Tomb Kings.

However!

I think alot of the Codex is overpriced for what it does.
LRBT have been overpriced for a while, and squadrons are rubbish.

Chimeras come with a decent armament, but overpriced as balls (A stock razorback is only 55pts, with HB, SB and BS4 lest we forget). Ok yeah Chimeras have better capacity, but seriously, 65+ points for a BS3 Transport of all things? I can get 2 Rhinos for 70 points.

Stormtroopers are awesome, but horrifically overpriced for a sub-par MEQ statline.

The Codex fliers are rubbish (Stormtalon costs 125 with a Lascannon, AssCannon and BS4 PLUS strafing run and Escort Fighter), the Valkyrie is 125 base, with a terrible weapon load-out AND BS3!

The Hellhound variants are horrifically overpriced, no two ways about it.

The fact that the Taurox even exists

The Lord Commissar (and normal Commissars too) can't give orders

Rough Riders only scare Grots.

The only good thing about IG is their Infantry platoons. And even then, yeah that's alot of shooting, but y'know who else can amass cheap firepower? Tyranids. And look at that mess.

You also can't go "Oh but with X and Y allies they're good". Because that's crap, same as the LOW options. This is about the Codex itself, not the ability to take superheavies, or allies or spacesquid.

And regarding the blob thing, with or without Azrael. Have you heard of Flame templates? Or Whirlwinds? or your own Wyverns? There's a reason Green Tide and Nid swarm struggle. You're slow, exposed, wearing t-shirts (regardless of the invul). Hell, at least the other 2 hold up in CQC,

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Izural wrote:
Rough Riders only scare Grots.

I'm not sure that is the case. If I had a full Grot squad, I think they win, even if the RRs get the charge.

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

Not really true. "most" weapons isa pretty gorss overgeneralization and it assumes you can hit the characters in question. Not really likely to happen. Don't need much luck when you have 6 rolls. You need a little luck. not a lot. And you only need ONE Psychic power, not two. =). anything beyond that is a bonus.

And as you know well from a previous thread, the blob as i build it has only ever died once. So like i say: Fortitude is not the problem wit hthe blob. The problem with a blob is its General simply not GIVING it any. If you don't, then all these comparisons to orks start to matter. But if you do, then it is nothing like an ork blob at all.

 Jancoran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

Not really true. "most" weapons isa pretty gorss overgeneralization and it assumes you can hit the characters in question. Not really likely to happen. Don't need much luck when you have 6 rolls. You need a little luck. not a lot. And you only need ONE Psychic power, not two. =). anything beyond that is a bonus.

And as you know well from a previous thread, the blob as i build it has only ever died once. So like i say: Fortitude is not the problem wit hthe blob. The problem with a blob is simply not GIVING it any. If you don't, then all these comparisons to orks start to matter. But if you do, then it is nothing like an ork blob at all.

If you are ever in the north of the UK drop into Red Steel Gaming in Preston sometime. I will gladly show you just how to remove this blob in two to three turns. And I mean all of it.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

Not really true. "most" weapons isa pretty gorss overgeneralization and it assumes you can hit the characters in question. Not really likely to happen. Don't need much luck when you have 6 rolls. You need a little luck. not a lot. And you only need ONE Psychic power, not two. =). anything beyond that is a bonus.

And as you know well from a previous thread, the blob as i build it has only ever died once. So like i say: Fortitude is not the problem wit hthe blob. The problem with a blob is simply not GIVING it any. If you don't, then all these comparisons to orks start to matter. But if you do, then it is nothing like an ork blob at all.

If you are ever in the north of the UK drop into Red Steel Gaming in Preston sometime. I will gladly show you just how to remove this blob in two to three turns. And I mean all of it.

Unless you play Eldar, I call BS.

I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

Not really true. "most" weapons isa pretty gorss overgeneralization and it assumes you can hit the characters in question. Not really likely to happen. Don't need much luck when you have 6 rolls. You need a little luck. not a lot. And you only need ONE Psychic power, not two. =). anything beyond that is a bonus.

And as you know well from a previous thread, the blob as i build it has only ever died once. So like i say: Fortitude is not the problem wit hthe blob. The problem with a blob is simply not GIVING it any. If you don't, then all these comparisons to orks start to matter. But if you do, then it is nothing like an ork blob at all.

If you are ever in the north of the UK drop into Red Steel Gaming in Preston sometime. I will gladly show you just how to remove this blob in two to three turns. And I mean all of it.

Unless you play Eldar, I call BS.

I do play against Eldar and more Eldar. In fact I play against Tau Empire, Hemonculus Coven/Dark Eldar(occassionally, and thats the only faction to ever kill the blob), Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, stra Militarum, Militarum Tempestus, White Scars, UltraMarines, Adepta Sororitas, orks, Skitarrii+IK Knights, Triple Raven Blood Angels and so on. There really Isn't anything I don't see.

We have an enormously active group within the two hour radius from my house.

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

It's called "anti-armour weapons".

Not difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

autumnlotus wrote:
Blobguard can kill things in melee, definitely. But the losses in the imperials side more then makes up for anything they can kill. Killed that daemon prince? Good job, most of the blob is gone now assuming black Mace. Now imagine that for veterens who should be better in melee, and are actually worse for ppm .

The book can do things, but mostly they pay to much for to little

Unless, again, you make them nearly unkillable. Which you can do.

Which requires several hundred more points investments in puny characters whom can be instakilled by most weapons within the game. And even then you need a lot of luck to roll up the two psychic powers that you need with the three level 1 psykers you have.
And even then the blob squad is still pathetically slow and will die to just about any other unit in the game, it will just take an extra turn or two.

Not really true. "most" weapons isa pretty gorss overgeneralization and it assumes you can hit the characters in question. Not really likely to happen. Don't need much luck when you have 6 rolls. You need a little luck. not a lot. And you only need ONE Psychic power, not two. =). anything beyond that is a bonus.

And as you know well from a previous thread, the blob as i build it has only ever died once. So like i say: Fortitude is not the problem wit hthe blob. The problem with a blob is simply not GIVING it any. If you don't, then all these comparisons to orks start to matter. But if you do, then it is nothing like an ork blob at all.

If you are ever in the north of the UK drop into Red Steel Gaming in Preston sometime. I will gladly show you just how to remove this blob in two to three turns. And I mean all of it.

Unless you play Eldar, I call BS.

I do play against Eldar and more Eldar. In fact I play against Tau Empire, Hemonculus Coven/Dark Eldar(occassionally, and thats the only faction to ever kill the blob), Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, stra Militarum, Militarum Tempestus, White Scars, UltraMarines, Adepta Sororitas, orks, Skitarrii+IK Knights, Triple Raven Blood Angels and so on. There really Isn't anything I don't see.

We have an enormously active group within the two hour radius from my house.

I'm talking to Master of Ordnance. You can't remove IG blobs.

How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?



and subbing them all out for GK Paladins does not count.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

So I dunno what all the disappointment comes from really. It's not like it couldn't benefit from a few fun formations or whatever. Rough riders are my prayer. Do something cool for them!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Izural wrote:
How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?

and subbing them all out for GK Paladins does not count.

No, I imagine it doesn't.

Izural wrote:
How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?

Very very easily. Just the standard blob with 3 priests and 3 psykers and 3 commissars with orders (especially with Yarrick attached) makes it one of the toughest units in the game. That's not even thinking about allies.

 Jancoran wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

So I dunno what all the disappointment comes from really. It's not like it couldn't benefit from a few fun formations or whatever. Rough riders are my prayer. Do something cool for them!

Do you ever think it's unkillable because no-one considers it a threat? I mean c'mon! They're guardsmen!

That doesn't make it the toughest. It makes it a blob of t3 figures that rely on getting that 4+ invuln power off to not get shot off the board. God help you if you go against elder or GK, you won't get any powers off. AND THEN you'll get shot off the board.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

Izural wrote:
How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?

Very very easily. Just the standard blob with 3 priests and 3 psykers and 3 commissars with orders (especially with Yarrick attached) makes it one of the toughest units in the game. That's not even thinking about allies.

No need for the Commissars even but sure if you want more power weapons, then you can do that. though if i did I'd probably go with power maces on the extra bodies for the added STR. Or not... But those Commissars hnestly are just Weapons caddies.

Izural wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Something tells me that your definition of "unkillable" doesn't match mine. As a Daemons player I've murdered every Guardsmen blob I've ever played against within the span of two turns. In what way exactly does one make a blob "unkillable"?

Lets match definitions. My definition is that I have lost the blob one time, in total ever.

How many times must it survive before you (personally) start calling it seemingly unkillable?

In any event, the fun part here is that you can just do it yourself and try it for a few games. it takes getting used to. For me it took a while to figure out how aggressive I could be with it and how aggressive I NEEDED to be with it. Once i figured all that out it was pretty easy to play.

You know what else AM has thats good? Vendettas. Some of the heartiest anti-air you can get ad it hovers. that's pretty amazing. I also think highly of some of their Leman Russ variants (and not so highly of others). manticores always do work for me. So I find them to be pretty good. Their Elites slots are a weakness relatively speaking but even there, you can get a little creative. HQ's are force multiplirs in a big way.

So I dunno what all the disappointment comes from really. It's not like it couldn't benefit from a few fun formations or whatever. Rough riders are my prayer. Do something cool for them!

Do you ever think it's unkillable because no-one considers it a threat? I mean c'mon! They're guardsmen!

50 guardsmen with 10 powerful HQ units attached. Hardly weak.

 War Kitten wrote:
That doesn't make it the toughest. It makes it a blob of t3 figures that rely on getting that 4+ invuln power off to not get shot off the board. God help you if you go against elder or GK, you won't get any powers off. AND THEN you'll get shot off the board.

You are free to doubt, of course. I'm sure that's exactly how it will happen. Lol. but not.

Yeah how does a MoO help with resilience, does he get some sort of extra rules set or something?

Makumba wrote:
Yeah how does a MoO help with resilience, does he get some sort of extra rules set or something?

He puts down a free basilisk shot every turn.

Guys, he (Typically-Wardian) tried making another duplicate spam thread (which is now locked thankfully) about how guard are OP in Proposed Rules. I would seriously try to avoid indulging him any further since its clear he's baiting at this point.

 Jancoran wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

Izural wrote:
How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?

Very very easily. Just the standard blob with 3 priests and 3 psykers and 3 commissars with orders (especially with Yarrick attached) makes it one of the toughest units in the game. That's not even thinking about allies.

No need for the Commissars even but sure if you want more power weapons, then you can do that. though if i did I'd probably go with power maces on the extra bodies for the added STR. Or not... But those Commissars hnestly are just Weapons caddies.

Commissars can't give orders.

And all the models are WS3. and T3. and 5+ save. You're basically insta-gibbed by all known weapons not called "Heavy Stubber" or "Flashlight"

 Grimskul wrote:
Guys, he (Typically-Wardian) tried making another duplicate spam thread (which is now locked thankfully) about how guard are OP in Proposed Rules. I would seriously try to avoid indulging him any further since its clear he's baiting at this point.

I'm not baiting. I thought this was a discussion forum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Izural wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Typically-Wardian wrote:

Izural wrote:
How does one make an "Unkillable" blob of Guardsmen?

Very very easily. Just the standard blob with 3 priests and 3 psykers and 3 commissars with orders (especially with Yarrick attached) makes it one of the toughest units in the game. That's not even thinking about allies.

No need for the Commissars even but sure if you want more power weapons, then you can do that. though if i did I'd probably go with power maces on the extra bodies for the added STR. Or not... But those Commissars hnestly are just Weapons caddies.

Commissars can't give orders.

And all the models are WS3. and T3. and 5+ save. You're basically insta-gibbed by all known weapons not called "Heavy Stubber" or "Flashlight"

Yarrick can give orders.

Typically-Wardian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I find it hard to believe that nobody can scare up an IKT with the ML and a couple ASMs with double Flamer kit. That auto-wins the blob.

It's called "anti-armour weapons".

Not difficult.

AT in a Guard blob? what are you smoking?

I'm talking to Master of Ordnance. You can't remove IG blobs.

Yes I can. It is called: "2 Leman Russ Eradicators". S6 for the instant kill, AP4 to ignore any and all armour that they could possibly be wearing and Ignores Cover just to remove that one oh so vital Guard save, all wrapped up in a nice 5" pieplate. And that is with two of the weakest tanks in the game.

Typically-Wardian wrote:Unless you play Eldar, I call BS.

See above for a very easy example. Oh and BTW those two Eradicators still leave me with another 10+ cost of upgrades on the blob points to play with.

Wyverns, flayed ones, I believe seekers, and massed bolter fire do okay.

So what I'm getting from this, is you would willingly shove all your IC's, in a T3 shell that has to footslog, with ML1 psykers. With only their t-shirts to save them?

Have you met our friend? I call him Will the Whirlwind.
He's AP5, Ignores cover and comes in squadrons!

How many HQ's? Ten? Is there some form of detachment/rule that lets you take more than 2 in a CAD?

That's a momumental troops tax if not.