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 NorseSig wrote:

Yup, basically that. He can just say "Oh, grats, you beat me with an extra 200pts+ and in a free for all game, good for you." So it's just better to enjoy the game for what it is than make it about someone who is too full of hot air.

No true high level tournament player has the attitude of this guy the thread OP describes. It's much closer to the profile of someone who isn't that good that can simply talk his way out of any loss thanks to such offers and more.

From what I have read I am inclined to agree with you, but I like to leave the ground open for "that one guy" who is top level and doesn't at all act like it. Though I think in this situation it is a guy who has overestimated the power of the war convocation and thinks that combined with his little bit of tournament experience he will mop the floor with anyone with said formation. I think going against tau will open his eyes a bit to the weaknesses of the war convocation. I know it did mine. I knew I was probably gonna get stomped by tau I just didn't realize how badly. But then some of it could have been my inexperience in the game and ad mech and the fact this guy has been playing tau and 40k for a very long time and is a good player. I love getting stomped by good players. I learn more that way. Especially when said good player will go back after the game and show me where I made mistakes and what I should have or could have done instead.

I think you said it best, a good player will generally want to help others in becoming tournament level players, as opposed to just crushing them. There's simply no benefit to turning people away from the tournament scene, unless they're insecure, as more players means more tournaments, larger prize payouts, and even deeper prize payouts. After all, even the best player in the world can't always finish first in any game, so having a deeper prize pay out always benefits them if they finish within that payout bracket.

Heck, I remember when I was still playing a lot of MtG, I would go to more casual tournaments just to support the local scene and if the person was up for it I'd always enjoy chatting with them about deck builds and strategy. I never really gave it much thought outside of some interesting banter and putting some of my ideas into words, but not long ago one of them made a post on Facebook after winning some tournament about how I was the reason they switched to control after a game we had there, it was pretty cool to see how I impacted another person's interest in a game I enjoyed. It sounds really altruistic of me, but really I was simply showing up because I could go "infinite" which just means you win enough prize money to never pay in for a tournament, and it started out with only 4-6 people each week, but once they showed up regularly enough to have consistent events firing each week on a specific date and time it went from like 8 players for a few weeks to 16+, and all of a sudden I could finish 5th and make more prize pay out than finishing first at 8 players. That's a pretty good deal, and when I did finish first, it would be just that much more pay out. It also meant I could come with more fun casual decks and still play for free every week while relaxing a lot more, which meant I was playing on a much more casual level that benefited the less competitive players, and I was having more fun.

I mean I get it, some people want to eliminate competition, but there's no prestige or winnings in finishing second in a two player race. Being a good person to the people you play against as a tournament player will always be far better than any other option.

I would love to hear how this game went if it happened already or is going to happen.

 NorseSig wrote:
I would love to hear how this game went if it happened already or is going to happen.

Right?! ALL THIS HYPE!

Wheres the batrep??!?

 Tinkrr wrote:

Janwin wrote:

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

Or just like "You only won because I gave you 200+ points". It's probably just an insurance policy D:

You can't beat these people, they're just too slippery. Really the way to beat them best is to just ignore them.

Or possibly he's giving him 200+ points because the War Convocation already gives AdMech tons of free points. He could just be throwing him a bone of 200+ points in exchange for the 500+ points in free upgrades he's bringing. Either way, he thinks it won't help. Heck, our local AdMech player thinks even if he gave you the full point value he's bringing, he'd still table you.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

Janwin wrote:

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

Or just like "You only won because I gave you 200+ points". It's probably just an insurance policy D:

You can't beat these people, they're just too slippery. Really the way to beat them best is to just ignore them.

Or possibly he's giving him 200+ points because the War Convocation already gives AdMech tons of free points. He could just be throwing him a bone of 200+ points in exchange for the 500+ points in free upgrades he's bringing. Either way, he thinks it won't help. Heck, our local AdMech player thinks even if he gave you the full point value he's bringing, he'd still table you.

To be fair, he might be right if he knows what he is doing.
The amount of points you're getting as upgrades in a War Convocation? It depends entirely upon how you set up the Skitarii Battle Maniple, what Knight you take, and what you take in the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment.
The higher the points outlay you start with, the more you get back...but by making the highest points outlay possible(say taking 6x Dragoons/Ballistarii and 3x Onagers), you cut into what you take for the Oathsworn and Battle Congregation Detachments.

Additionally, it's not like you have a huge array of options on your Skitarii infantry units.

Here's an update: I got tabled. I rolled a one when it was time to pick the turn order, and here's what happened in turn one:

I had my vehicles double shot by an Imperial Knight and a Baneblade (from different armies) and had an assassin pop up behind my block of troops and turn them into fish fillet with his flamers. To add insult to injury, a scatter shot from my Stormsurge ended up landing right on top of my Longstrike Hammerhead, finishing it off.

By the time my reserves came in at turn two, most of my army was in pretty bad shape. And the fighting was spread all over the board between my forces, the AdMech, Space Wolves and Khorne Daemonkin. I was tabled halfway through turn four, having fought a battle I couldn't win.

I only took one Riptide, and I think he might have suggested I take a second Riptide for free just to make sure I don't out of pride.

Anyway, rematch it tomorrow. Let's hope I don't suck at rolling this time.

Last time, we had four players. Tomorrow, we might be six or seven players running smaller armies. More room for alliances, more risk of being targeted by something unpleasant. I'm cautiously optimistic this time.

Group games are super imbalanced when you rotate around the table and give everyone a turn. It makes it so your waiting forever and possibly having, in your case, 3 armies shoot you before you ever move.

Sorry but any useful conventional advice goes straight down the toilette if your going to play group games where every side gets it's own turn.

That sucks.

Any game where all the players focus on one person is just stupid.

Janwin wrote:
That sucks.

Any game where all the players focus on one person is just stupid.

Agreed. And to focus on one player in a FRIENDLY game is a serious donkey cave move. All it does is kill the enjoyment for one person. And the others are right. In a situation like this all tactics go out the window, and no advice will help you. I would say that next time if they want to do a multiperson game like this tell them if they are going to target you you should get an additional force of equal points for each person. Because this was nothing more than a 3 on 1 apocalypse match where you got neutered. And if you have the most recent tau book use it. In this case I would take the most broken cheese I could. Since you are fighting an uphill battle. Seriously, this was such a douche move. I would say use some kind of tournament setup so everyone gets a game and you can still have an overall winner, or play a game of apocalypse where you balance points ect.

To be fair guys I used to play 3-4 player games when I was younger and even though it seems cool and everyone tries to spread their love around the reality is that you have an opponent on your right and your left and sometimes you only have one valid target for most of your units, so a player can get sandwiched with tons of fire no matter what.

It's far better to split into 2-3 games, but I am guessing maybe table space and terrain is short with that group.

This is why I prefer team games over free-for-all.

I have made solid alliances with two guys who are planning to show up. There's my pro friend and then there's the crazy one who's pretty unpredictable and crazy in his play, almost always doing the last thing you'd expect, if only to disrupt our plans for gaks and giggles.

It boils down to picking your allies and being diplomatic to further your goals, communicating with the players beforehand and focusing our power on the bigger threat on the table.

We are usually too stubborn to play as a team. The greatest majority of our Halo multiplayer matches were free for all, because that's just the nature of the group.

Soft tactics and some good luck would really help turn this around. Plus, I'm deploying two Riptides and reviewing my formation and how I can deploy my forces to minimize the risk of them being wiped out with a well placed attack.

Here's the real question, did you have fun that game? Did it leave you hungry to play more 40k?

 Tinkrr wrote:
Here's the real question, did you have fun that game? Did it leave you hungry to play more 40k?

Yes, it did. I consider it a learning experience and will try different formations next time.

Funny thing is, next time is 5 hours away.

Lionheart713 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Here's the real question, did you have fun that game? Did it leave you hungry to play more 40k?

Yes, it did. I consider it a learning experience and will try different formations next time.

Funny thing is, next time is 5 hours away.

Awesome, then you've already won. A lot of people use the word fun to describe their desired gaming experience, but the easiest way to determine if something was fun is to ask yourself if it made you want to do more of it, and in this case it did, so you're doing it right.

I'll give you a recap of the big mess that's about to happen, in broad strokes (don't expect a move by move narrative).

I haven't done a battle report before, but I think I'll tell it like a story instead of saying things like "X sent 10 warriors against Y's 5 archers, killed 4 and lost 3."

If you see the recap above, you'll get an idea of what I'm planning to do but on a game-wide scale. Do you think that would be good? Is it acceptable as a recap?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Most people go with solo-Onagers for AA, squaded for non-AA.

SJ

Right, but in the WC you can't do both.