Terror Attack in Paris. update page 23

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**whembly**

People forget that France was the main force during the recent Libyan and Mali "military excursions".

Like most Western Nations, they can spank anyone around the world.

**LethalShade**

daedalus wrote:
LethalShade wrote:

Hope so. Heard that some Americans already like us. Some.

You DID impress me with a show of force I didn't think France was capable of.

My own government impressed me, to be honest. They're still fighting each other over BS, though.
All the jokes come from our tendency to tactical surrendering. We're all tactical gen... ~~CREEEEEEEEEEEED!~~

daedalus wrote:
LethalShade wrote:

~~American girls here I come~~ *BLAM* HERESY!

You wouldn't be able to get your arms around the waistline of an average American. Unless you're into that.

~~YOU LIED TO ME, AMERICA! WHERE'S MY AMERICAN DREAM?!~~

But jokes aside, our situation is still worrying me, and I bet we'll get attacked another time soon.

**NuggzTheNinja**

LethalShade wrote:
BrotherGecko wrote:
I can't help but wonder what would happen if the US did a similar crack down and what they would find.

Still, France you keep doing you right now.

Honestly ? Probably not as many wannabe terrorists. Not Islamic ones.
You do not seem to have a lot of alienated Muslim youths.

We had the Boston Marathon bombers, and I expect us to have many more with all this talk of admitting "refugees."

But to point the fact that these terrorists are Muslims is apparently a ban worthy offense here, so with this I invite you all to merely watch as we reap the consequences of failing to recognize a serious threat to our safety in the name of political correctness.

**Tactical_Spam**

You know... If France declares war with ISIS doesn't that enact article 4 (i think) of NATO?

**whembly**

Tactical_Spam wrote:
You know... If France declares war with ISIS doesn't that enact article 4 (i think) of NATO?

No... France would actually have to invoke article 4, not simple "declare" war.

**Grey Templar**

I think the bigger question is does declaring war mean ISIS has been legitimized as a political entity?

**LethalShade**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
LethalShade wrote:
BrotherGecko wrote:
I can't help but wonder what would happen if the US did a similar crack down and what they would find.

Still, France you keep doing you right now.

Honestly ? Probably not as many wannabe terrorists. Not Islamic ones.
You do not seem to have a lot of alienated Muslim youths.

We had the Boston Marathon bombers, and I expect us to have many more with all this talk of admitting "refugees."

But to point the fact that these terrorists are Muslims is apparently a ban worthy offense here, so with this I invite you all to merely watch as we reap the consequences of failing to recognize a serious threat to our safety in the name of political correctness.

I think that implying that all Muslims are terrorists is a ban offense, not saying that the terrorists are Muslims.

**Grey Templar**

Not all of them, but far too many of them to say "Its not Islam that is the problem here at all, nope, no way. Zero effect!"

**insaniak**

Grey Templar wrote:
Not all of them, but far too many of them to say "Its not Islam that is the problem here at all, nope, no way. Zero effect!"

Violent people will be violent, regardless of their religion. The fact that there are millions of Muslims around the world who aren't trying to kill you should be enough to show that the problem isn't Islam, but simply violent people being violent and using Islam as their excuse.

**Orlanth**

jhe90 wrote:
French are pretty active in Africa etc, just no one ever seems to notice.

Au contraire, it is definitely noticed, the French have a very good record in Africa recently.
The Uk press doesnt cover the stories though, but then it ignores most of what happens in Africa.

Been looking at the Anonymous weblogs today, part of the #OpParis movement to DDOS attack pro-ISIS websites. I wonder if they are doing more harm than good shutting off easy to monitor sites. Anyway some in Anonymous are talking about recurring reports of what they have been reading from ISIS commentators, of a planned London attack, 'at the end of November', 'bigger than Paris'.
As its on social media GCHQ will likely already be all over it; keep watching out for us please guys.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
I think the bigger question is does declaring war mean ISIS has been legitimized as a political entity?

No its just spin. The French Government are 'declaring war' unofficially, via a government statement, to show their seriousness of responce. The French Government are not 'declaring war' as in writing a formal letter of Declaration of War, with copy to the Hague and UN to signify a formal war against a hostile state.

**Sigvatr**

Just don't take Anonymous seriously. 4chan used to host a really experienced and professional bunch of hackers, but that was a lot of years ago. People migrated to the Deep Web ever since after they had realized that they could make a lot of money offering their services.

Nowadays "Anonymous" mostly consists of a bunch of script kiddies with a DDoS tool that requires one click to use.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Peter Hitchens comments on how often drugs are a common factor in the backgrounds of the sorts of people who carry out these attacks:
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/11/the-use-of-mind-altering-drugs-by-terrorists-some-new-facts.html

The guy has an axe to grind regarding drugs so take with a dose of salt if need be, but the guy is right to point it out. There is a strong correlation.

The Use of Mind-Altering Drugs by Terrorists: Some New facts

I promised that I would record what I knew about the latest Paris atrocities and drug abuse, once I knew it. I will not be surprised if more emerges (though it may be necessary to search quite hard for it, so uninterested are the authorities and media in this aspect of the matter). The French authorities are still far from completing their inquiries and I am not sure we even have a complete list of perpetrators and suspects. But here is an interim summary:

We still have a very partial picture, however, some facts so far revealed bear out my view that such killers tend to come from a milieu of petty crime in which drug abuse is common.

I have so far compiled the following (some links are to French publications) about those whose names have so far been linked to the atrocities, and drug abuse.

Ibrahim Abdeslam and Salah Abdeslam ran a Brussels café closed after complaints of the stink of dope led to a police raid:

http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/brahim-abdeslam-qui-s-est-fait-exploser-a-paris-tenait-un-cafe-a-molenbeek-5649c11a3570bccfaf14455b

And Ibrahim Abdeslam, according to his ex-wife, was a heavy smoker of cannabis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322385/Ex-wife-Comptoir-Voltaire-caf-bomber-reveals-jobless-layabout-spent-day-bed-smoking-pot-French-say-blew-mistake-fiddling-suicide-vest.html

And

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/18/paris-terrorist-smoked-alarming-amount-of-cannabis_n_8589508.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

Abdelhamid Abaaoud , the supposed ‘mastermind’ of the atrocities, is reported to have drifted into a ‘life of thievery and drugs’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/abdelhamid-abaaoud-everything-we-know-about-the-paris-attacks-mastermind-a6738776.html

And one of the Bataclan theatre killers, Omar Ismail Mostefai, was reported to have committed ‘a string of petty offences’.What were they? I haven’t seen them detailed in any British outlet, but Paris Match lists them here. They include violence involving the use or threat of weapons, robbery with violence, breaking and entering, counterfeiting cheques… and ….

‘achat des stupefiants’ - the purchase or possession of drugs.

http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Societe/Ismael-Omar-Mostefai-profil-d-un-kamikaze-francais-866191

What does this mean? I don’t claim to know. Conceivably, it means nothing at all, though surely the habitual use of powerful mind-altering drugs by people who then commit crimes of extraordinary horror and callousness is suggestive of something, even to the most prejudiced mind?

I just think the pattern of correlation between terrorist outrages and drugtaking needs to be investigated and noticed in a scientific and objective fashion, and examined on each occasion these events happen. It shouldn’t be left to dissenting journalists to compile such things.

**LethalShade**

The main factors seem to be petty crimes and delinquency.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

LethalShade wrote:
The main factors seem to be petty crimes and delinquency.

And mind altering drugs...

**LethalShade**

I don't think cannabis seriously increases chances of becoming a jihadist

**insaniak**

LethalShade wrote:
I don't think cannabis seriously increases chances of becoming a jihadist

Not specifically of being a jihadist, but it's been linked to increased risk in certain people of developing psychosis and paranoia. Mental health issues would seem to be a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber.

**CptJake**

insaniak wrote:
LethalShade wrote:
I don't think cannabis seriously increases chances of becoming a jihadist

Not specifically of being a jihadist, but it's been linked to increased risk in certain people of developing psychosis and paranoia. Mental health issues would seem to be a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber.

No, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Unless you want to consider deep faith in your cause a mental health issue. From the Divine Wind/Kamikaze pilots to guys in WW2 who went into a bunker with a satchel charge knowing it would be their death in order to take out a machine gun nest pinning down their buddies, history is rife with 'suicide bombers' who did not have mental health issues.

**Breotan**

All over Facebook, my friends are linking to cute little memes saying how no refugee has ever committed a terrorist act in the USA. They mainly direct this comment at people like our Republican politicians who want to defund or suspend our Syrian Refugee program.

I'd like to leave this here... (Link only because it's really long so I'm not gonna copy/format it while I'm at work.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html

America's 'enemies within': How nearly SEVENTY have been arrested in America over ISIS plots in last 18 months - including refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'

**insaniak**

CptJake wrote:

No, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Unless you want to consider deep faith in your cause a mental health issue. From the Divine Wind/Kamikaze pilots to guys in WW2 who went into a bunker with a satchel charge knowing it would be their death in order to take out a machine gun nest pinning down their buddies, history is rife with 'suicide bombers' who did not have mental health issues.

Context matters.

**motyak**

So according to that article there are between 1 and 3 of the 66 who were refugees/permanent residents, and they were done for sending money/arms rather than carrying out attacks, which seems to be the thing people are trying to hang around refugees' necks. Is that accurate? I admit I'm reading on my phone while I shop so I may have missed some.

**CptJake**

insaniak wrote:
CptJake wrote:

No, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Unless you want to consider deep faith in your cause a mental health issue. From the Divine Wind/Kamikaze pilots to guys in WW2 who went into a bunker with a satchel charge knowing it would be their death in order to take out a machine gun nest pinning down their buddies, history is rife with 'suicide bombers' who did not have mental health issues.

Context matters.

It does, and even in the context of jihadist, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Never has been, never will be.

Do some groups prey on mentally fethed up people and turn them into suicide bombers? Of course. But that is not their only source of suicide bombers.

To make the statement you did implies a massive lack of understanding of the issue.

**d-usa**

motyak wrote:
So according to that article there are between 1 and 3 of the 66 who were refugees/permanent residents, and they were done for sending money/arms rather than carrying out attacks, which seems to be the thing people are trying to hang around refugees' necks. Is that accurate? I admit I'm reading on my phone while I shop so I may have missed some.

And of note, none of them are Syrian.

**FacebookJunkie**

Breotan wrote:
All over Facebook, my friends are linking to cute little memes saying how no refugee has ever committed a terrorist act in the USA. They mainly direct this comment at people like our Republican politicians who want to defund or suspend our Syrian Refugee program.

I'd like to leave this here... (Link only because it's really long so I'm not gonna copy/format it while I'm at work.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html

America's 'enemies within': How nearly SEVENTY have been arrested in America over ISIS plots in last 18 months - including refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'

The problem with the Daily Mail is it is basically a right wing hate rag. Read its stories in this context.

Another poster has pointed out that many of these arrests relate to people in the US sending money and material to terrorists.

Various hyphenated Americans have done this for decades. NORAID funding helped IRA terrorists kill British soldiers, policemen and civilians.

**insaniak**

CptJake wrote:

It does, and even in the context of jihadist, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Never has been, never will be.

Do some groups prey on mentally fethed up people and turn them into suicide bombers? Of course. But that is not their only source of suicide bombers.

To make the statement you did implies a massive lack of understanding of the issue.

If you insist.

Frankly, I'm perfectly at peace with the idea that I might not understand what would make someone think it was a good idea to kill innocent people in the name of their religion.

**whembly**

insaniak wrote:
CptJake wrote:

It does, and even in the context of jihadist, mental health issues are not a requisite for becoming a suicide bomber. Never has been, never will be.

Do some groups prey on mentally fethed up people and turn them into suicide bombers? Of course. But that is not their only source of suicide bombers.

To make the statement you did implies a massive lack of understanding of the issue.

If you insist.

Frankly, I'm perfectly at peace with the idea that I might not understand what would make someone think it was a good idea to kill innocent people in the name of their religion.

That's because, often times they're forced to perpetuate the attack.

**DutchWinsAll**

Lol at trying to blame cannabis instead of Islam. Once I see Rasta's start blowing up civilians and lopping off heads, then I'll say there may be an argument there. Right now it's an asinine reason that reeks of perpetuating bs to keep the War on Drugs going.

Considering how much canna is grown in many ME regions, it's history of thousands of years of use there, the ban on alcohol, and the overall illicit nature of cannabis making it useful for funds is there any connection.

Cannabis doesn't make it any easier or harder to become a jihadi. Only one's devout belief in one's faith does.

**insaniak**

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Lol at trying to blame cannabis instead of Islam.

Honestly, I think the big mistake being made all over the place on this issue is people trying to make it a black-and-white 'this is the cause' issue.

Islam is not the sole reason someone becomes a jihadi. If it were, there would be an awful lot more of them.

Drugs are not the sole reason someone becomes a jihadi.

Mental health, living conditions, demographic... all not the sole reason someone because a jihadi.

Nor is this true:

Cannabis doesn't make it any easier or harder to become a jihadi. Only one's devout belief in one's faith does.

...given that we've had reports for some time now of people heading to the middle east to join ISIL despite having little if any actual knowledge of Islam.

**-Shrike-**

insaniak wrote:
Nor is this true:

Cannabis doesn't make it any easier or harder to become a jihadi. Only one's devout belief in one's faith does.

...given that we've had reports for some time now of people heading to the middle east to join ISIL despite having little if any actual knowledge of Islam.

Well, a strong belief in something is fairly necessary, I would have thought. How correct their ideas are, and whether their perceptions actually line up with reality, is an entirely different type of argument altogether.

**DutchWinsAll**

insaniak wrote:

Nor is this true:

Cannabis doesn't make it any easier or harder to become a jihadi. Only one's devout belief in one's faith does.

...given that we've had reports for some time now of people heading to the middle east to join ISIL despite having little if any actual knowledge of Islam.

Yes, because they're the average Jihadi. Western loners with no idea of Islam are the ones fueling the jihadi armies in thousands. Not locals who learned for years in the madrassas, just apparently foreigners with "little if any actual knowledge if Islam"

Do you really believe stuff like this? The word "jihad" is an Islamic term. People fighting and dying for jihad are devout Muslims, regardless of their individual knowledge. Does an American soldier need to have a deep, working knowledge of a Constitutional Republic to be considered to be fighting for America? No.

**insaniak**

DutchWinsAll wrote:

Yes, because they're the average Jihadi. Western loners with no idea of Islam are the ones fueling the jihadi armies in thousands. Not locals who learned for years in the madrassas, just apparently foreigners with "little if any actual knowledge if Islam"

How do you get that from what I actually said?

Nowhere did I suggest that every member of ISIL was a foreigner with no idea of Islam. Just that they're in the mix... in response to your claim that a 'devout belief in one's faith' was the sole motivating factor in people joining up.

It's clearly not, and regardless of how sarcastic you get, different people are going to have different motivations.