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Biggest mistake was killing the Old World which alienated vets more than anything else IMO. GW could have just done everything else - advanced the WFB storyline, condensed the armies, moved the aesthetic on, simplified the rules, introduced Sigmarines, but I have yet to meet a vet who has any interest in the new AoS world they have created.

What baffles me is that the End Times seemed to rejuvenate WFB, but that the decision to get rid of the Old World was already made before the End Times had even been released.

Davor wrote:
Answer is quite simple. High price. While no codices need to be bought, minis are still over priced. $70 for 3 minis? I don't care if they are terminator size, terminators are over priced and AoS minis are more over priced.

I would have bought so more besides the boxset. I am sure others would have as well.

It's always price. Then comes rules and lack of support for their games.

And despite no codices, more rules which flesh out those in the free four pages must be bought in ongoing books. Fantasy players already went through buying End Times books with ongoing rules and background that quickly became irrelevant, and people aren't going to be jumping at the chance to do so all over again.

I think the the main failure point for the game possibly falling is the lack of advertisement (if we were to exclude all the veterans' problems with the system, subjective or objective). Usually the veterans at least tend to keep up with the game but the complete switch just made it easier for people to not see it as WHFB version x+1 but as something else. And with that came more scrutiny instead of just grumbling about some broken rules but still upgrading. The usual player base/network effect would have drawn the rest in but now this venue of propagation seems to have dried up.

As much as the rules seem useless to veterans there might be an actual audience for the game (even if it's not me/us) but with GW more or less not advertising and the game being a surprise release nobody who could be interested knows of the game. How did they advertise? They had a con where their own people accidentally could get there to do some promo work and they send one copy to a youtube reviewer. Did they do anything else? Even stores didn't know how to prepare for the new game if I remember correctly. That's better than what they did before which was literary nothing at all but it's just not enough if you need to inform a complete new demographic of your game's existence.

I recall a time when 40K went through a very similar transformation with just as much player revolt - the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition.

I'm betting most of the people here on Dakka are too young to know of such a time, but it happened. 40K players left in droves; it was a dark and uncertain time indeed.

I see the potential in AoS just as saw the potential in 3rd edition 40K.

Let me remind everyone who is old enough to recall and inform the young that the 40K game we all love and enjoy today is only a tweaked version of that very same, so very hated, 3rd edition rules set.

I had an interest, but the cost entirely killed it.

The new minis are nice, but when you've got a single mini that costs the same as a squad in most rival games, or a box of five costs only slightly less than the starter box for those same games, then it doesn't come close to competing for my hobby dollars.

 oni wrote:
I recall a time when 40K went through a very similar transformation with just as much player revolt - the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition.

I'm betting most of the people here on Dakka are too young to know of such a time, but it happened. 40K players left in droves; it was a dark and uncertain time indeed.

I see the potential in AoS just as saw the potential in 3rd edition 40K.

Let me remind everyone who is old enough to recall and inform the young that the 40K game we all love and enjoy today is only a tweaked version of that very same, so very hated, 3rd edition rules set.

You and I have very different memories of that time.

3rd edition did indeed meet with a certain amounf of opposition, and some players left as a result. But it was nothing at all like the reaction that AoS received. Largely, I suspect, because while 3rd edition streamlined things doesn considerably and removed a bunch of stuff that some people loved, it was still essentially the same game. Or at the very least, was still the same type of game... The shift from WHFB to AoS was much, much bigger. It wasn't just a rules streamlining... AOS is a completely different game at a completely different scale with completely different armies.

Interest where I am has never been high. The starter boxes initially flew off the shelves for the minis, but no-one is playing.
The fantasy community fractured in to stopping completely, playing Kings of War, or playing 9th Age.

IMO there are a number of reasons behind this....
* It pissed off a lot of veterans. Lots of people who liked playing Fantasy with their existing armies and had LOTS of money invested in models, rules and accessories suddenly found a lot of that time and effort wasted. Angry customers are not good.
* Angry Customers are not good ESPECIALLY when they are your main form of advertising. Age of Sigmar doesn't have an advertising presence outside of existing GW players talking about it, and when most of the potential audience is feeling disenfranchised...
* By essentially killing off the old Fantasy world, it killed off the one thing that a Warhammer Fantasy skirmish game had going for it - the relationship to three decades of built up IP. Now that they're essentially building new IP from scratch, players who LIKED the IP before have no real reason to play AoS.
* The game itself has no redeeming features except that it is made by GW... if you consider that to be a feature. The models as always are fantastically high quality (though that also comes with fantastically high price...) but there are numerous other established fantasy skirmish games around that are better games. There are numerous other fantasy mass battle games that are better games. AoS doesn't provide anything good or unique in the way of role-playing/storytelling and it seems specifically designed to not be capable of playing any kind of balanced competitive game. It strikes me as a board game like Mouse Trap - fun to play a handful of times when you're kids, but you eventually realize that even for a 'beer and pretzels' game you want something more.
* GW seems to have missed one of the main reasons people weren't buying fantasy anymore: the buy-in cost is very high. A quick glance at the GW website gives me a list of products, none of which are below $100 AUD and most are above $200. Even if most of them are 'bundles', just the sticker shock of the main item on your front page being $1412 is harmful. In many cases you're still paying $30-$50 AUD for a single figure. People new to the game (which is everyone, because they destroyed the old game / IP) are going to look at that, then look at Infinity or something where you can buy 2 full player armies for less than the cost of one Sigmarine hero, and the choice will be pretty obvious.

 oni wrote:
I recall a time when 40K went through a very similar transformation with just as much player revolt - the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition.

I'm betting most of the people here on Dakka are too young to know of such a time, but it happened. 40K players left in droves; it was a dark and uncertain time indeed.

I see the potential in AoS just as saw the potential in 3rd edition 40K.

Let me remind everyone who is old enough to recall and inform the young that the 40K game we all love and enjoy today is only a tweaked version of that very same, so very hated, 3rd edition rules set.

My memories of that change....um....are different than yours.
Some people left. But it drew in more players. Also, the criticisms of 3rd was nowhere near as vehement as the criticisms of AOS.

We tried at our store, ran some events, tried to promote it, but it's pretty dead. I have 2 people playing (new players that have never done minis before). Everybody else plays KoW, or if they want skirmish fantasy, they do Frostgrave or Mordheim.

I used to be a HUUUGE Fantasy playing store, with tournaments hitting over 30 and regular play nights with every table full, AoS killed it and every single player moved to Kings of War or quit altogether. In the last few months I've slashed my Fantasy wall by 2/3 and don't even reorder unless it's a special order. That broke my heart personally, I own 8 Fantasy armies.

Personally, I tried AoS, it's ok for what it is, but I played Fantasy for the rule set and world, both are gone. You can say I can just play 8th, but that's not realistic since most gamers move to supported game systems, and KoW has taken over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said, if GW brought out a 9th edition......MONEY.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to reasons it's failing imo.

It's not as good a mass fantasy game as Kings of War

It's not as good a skirmish game as Mordheim, Frostgrave or any other skirmish game

The Stormcasts are boring. Great models, but boring fluff and with being effectively immortal, there's no fear or connection when they die.

Khorne is also the most BORING of Chaos gods.. Blood blood skulls skulls blah blah blah. Nurgle or Tzeentch would have been way more interesting.

A lack of info on other races is a killer too. I've read the books, listened to the audio books and I'm not impressed with the world at all, it lacks flavor.


Cost doesn't really come into it I find, people who want to will buy the products, people who can't afford to or don't find the value in it, won't.

 Sergeant Horse wrote:

That being said, if GW brought out a 9th edition......MONEY.

I don't think so. First, they can't really backtrack to the Old World after putting too many bets on AoS being successful. And if they do decided to go back to rank-and-flank in Sigmarland, they then piss off every new AoS player who got into the game because they wanted a skirmish fantasy game that wasn't block based.

The only option they have now is to either make AoS into something acceptable to a wider audience - which, with the various criticism arrayed against it, seems difficult - or throw good money after bad.

You'd think after replacing their Space Marines with a Sigmarine and slapping a AoS symbol on the main headquarters, their initial release for the game shouldn't have been so half-assed. We got two new factions (one of which is just a subset of an existing faction, and the other is Fantasy Space Marines) and a few reboxings of older miniatures. And then... back to 40k! It's like GW is the kid who tells everyone he's going to cannonball off the high jump into the deep end, only to halfheartedly belly flop into the shallow end. And then get out and go back to the food stand.

If they're as dedicated to this idea as they say they are, and apparently have been, each month should have been a release of one or two completely redone factions with new looks and aesthetics. You want to rename everything in your world to copyright protect them? Fine, but show a little creativity instead of just slapping new names and round bases on old factions.

I think for AoS to have been successful GW should have put a bigger investment into it.

Yes they were trying to get the Sigmarine army out but frankly no one cared. What if instead of wasting so much time on that they rushed out a rerelease for every major faction from the Old World with say, a hero, 2 troop boxes and an elite box that were all similar enough to fit in alongside the old models but distinctly different in style. Then they should have put out.. it doesn't have to be a battletome/army book, but something like that with the new fluff for each redone race. If nothing else each race should have had 2 whole pages just for them in the first big book GW released, not every faction crammed into the bottom of a two page spread that was mostly art.

If I knew my Dark Elves still existed and they received a new Dreadlord, new spearmen, crossbowmen and cold one knights I'd probably have bought into that (even if it was just to use the minis for KoW).

Right now the only appeal is for Sigmarine players and Khorne players. You can't even really ad Lizardmen players to that list as this whole new setting with radically different fluff and supposedly completely new aesthetics left them with not a single change in their old model line.

The original WHFB was dying.There are already other games with better rules elsewhere. It was mainly supported by the old veterans. They have spent so much time, effort and money into the game that they could not afford to give up, despite the increasing discontent. With AoS, it simply destroyed everything they owned. Now that they are free. They won't come back and likely advise others not to try - a double negative impact. The miniatures look nice but I never find these GW products enjoyable to paint. Yes, they have a lot of details just to make work but does not add any meaning to the posture of the figures.

I, for one, was really looking forward to AoS.

I soooo wanted to model some big spiders with catapults, and goblins and MOAR orks!!!!

Then, I heard rumors of circle bases....

SWEET!!!! My 40k orks can stand in as I collect. I was thinking they were gonna make those GF9 circular movement trays!

Oh man. This is gonna be awesome....

Ok its out!

Whaaaaa? Free rules? OMG. That's Awesome!!! They really are going to become a "miniatures company."

Wait a sec... theres no trays....

And no codexes....

And no points...

WTF?!

Let me watch some BatReps:
Huh...
20 Goblins = 20 StormCast Eternals? Wow. Easy mechanic. Cool mysterious terrain. Looks beer and pretzelsy... I like beer... and pretzels... StormCasts won. Big surprise there....

GOOGLING....
What is this Kings of War thing, anyway?

DAKKA-ING...
Hmmmm Killkrazy says "9th Age" is getting put together like Blood Bowl.

Well... I guess I'll just keep 40k'ing it... and see who wins: 9th Age, GW, or KoW. I'll just lurk on Ebay... ho-hum...

How is your opinion about the Sigmarines.
I neither like the look of the models nor the fluff.

On the other hand, the Goreblood models look fantastic and I'm using some in my 30k WE army.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The price on UK Amazon is about £60 including postage, which is 20% discount. This is not a fire sale price.

US Amazon price is $65 with free shipping vs GW's $125 with free shipping = 48% discount.

T

timd wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The price on UK Amazon is about £60 including postage, which is 20% discount. This is not a fire sale price.

US Amazon price is $65 with free shipping vs GW's $125 with free shipping = 48% discount.

T

''Fire sale'' is not a good prospect for AoS.

timd wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The price on UK Amazon is about £60 including postage, which is 20% discount. This is not a fire sale price.

US Amazon price is $65 with free shipping vs GW's $125 with free shipping = 48% discount.

T

You guys have Amazon selling GW products in your countries? I couldn't find anything on the AU one.

wuestenfux wrote:How is your opinion about the Sigmarines.
I neither like the look of the models nor the fluff.

On the other hand, the Goreblood models look fantastic and I'm using some in my 30k WE army.

Personally I find sigmarines to be the most boring thing GW has done in recent years, both in fluff and in models.
There is some crap about them losing parts of themselves when they die but it feels kind of like a 12 year old's attempt at being 'deep' and in the end they just come out looking like faceless, nameless, immortals who you can't form any attachment to. They suffer heavily from the Wolf Wolverson riding his Wolf and fighting with his Wolf claws problem that is plaguing space marine chapters and they are quite poorly fleshed out just from a day to day perspective. Do they eat, and if so what? What do they do in their free time if they have any? Do they have any kind of arts they practice? Any kind of culture at all as a race?

All in all actually I'd say the biggest problem with AoS fluff, and this is most obvious when looking at sigmarines, it is it wargame fluff. Everything they detail is about how X army killed Y army. There have been some discussions about using the setting for an RPG and as a GM I look at that and laugh because there is simply nothing there for the day to day lives of anyone yet, it is even more 'there is only war' than 40k.

As for the models... they suffer from that same heroic scale armour oddities that space marines do but without the years of history behind them that make us all overlook that little fact. They are also faaar too static and you can see on a few of them where they have tried to pose their arms up and the shoulder pats have gotten in the way.

wildger wrote:The original WHFB was dying.

The UK tournament scene for WHFB was massive, hundreds of players attending various events. That's now all fragmented/dying. Some have taken up AoS, others have moved on to other games.

The saddest thing for me for this about AoS is that GW must have known how much players enjoyed getting into that (quite competitive) scene, how those big tournaments were annual events on the gaming calendar for many, but they shrugged and pulled the plug. It says to me that they are either desperate, don't care, or have a really low opinion on the intelligence of their player base (replacing a game with the mechanics of WHFB with something like AoS).

insaniak wrote:

 oni wrote:
I recall a time when 40K went through a very similar transformation with just as much player revolt - the switch from 2nd to 3rd edition.

I'm betting most of the people here on Dakka are too young to know of such a time, but it happened. 40K players left in droves; it was a dark and uncertain time indeed.

I see the potential in AoS just as saw the potential in 3rd edition 40K.

Let me remind everyone who is old enough to recall and inform the young that the 40K game we all love and enjoy today is only a tweaked version of that very same, so very hated, 3rd edition rules set.

You and I have very different memories of that time.

3rd edition did indeed meet with a certain amounf of opposition, and some players left as a result. But it was nothing at all like the reaction that AoS received. Largely, I suspect, because while 3rd edition streamlined things doesn considerably and removed a bunch of stuff that some people loved, it was still essentially the same game. Or at the very least, was still the same type of game... The shift from WHFB to AoS was much, much bigger. It wasn't just a rules streamlining... AOS is a completely different game at a completely different scale with completely different armies.

I would say there was more complaining when Marines moved from T 3 to T 4

 jonolikespie wrote:


I think for AoS to have been successful GW should have put a bigger investment into it.

Spoiler:

Yes they were trying to get the Sigmarine army out but frankly no one cared. What if instead of wasting so much time on that they rushed out a rerelease for every major faction from the Old World with say, a hero, 2 troop boxes and an elite box that were all similar enough to fit in alongside the old models but distinctly different in style. Then they should have put out.. it doesn't have to be a battletome/army book, but something like that with the new fluff for each redone race. If nothing else each race should have had 2 whole pages just for them in the first big book GW released, not every faction crammed into the bottom of a two page spread that was mostly art.

If I knew my Dark Elves still existed and they received a new Dreadlord, new spearmen, crossbowmen and cold one knights I'd probably have bought into that (even if it was just to use the minis for KoW).

Right now the only appeal is for Sigmarine players and Khorne players. You can't even really ad Lizardmen players to that list as this whole new setting with radically different fluff and supposedly completely new aesthetics left them with not a single change in their old model line.

That's probably the best criticism I've read of how AoS was handled and I apologise for being flippant with you on other threads, Jono. You've absolutely nailed it here.

Being a Lizardman player, I was kind of excited to see what my new incredile AoS minis would look like. Oh OK, there aren't any. I'll just make do with these awful Cold Ones and static-same-stance-saurus. The Ripperdactyls and Carno are awesome kits, but that really is about it.

The Sigmarites and Khorne stuff looks pretty good, but there's nothing for any other races. Perhaps a way to appease veteran players, "See, your minis are still viable! No need to buy a ton more new things"?!

I have been critical of all the negativity but that's mainly down to the fact that I wasn't particularly playing much WHFB and didn't enjoy it when I did. A lot of people have said "Well just don't play it!" but it's not as easy as that.

My favourite local radio station recently changed it's brand, and overhauled it's staff. They brought in one of the most reviled personalities in Britain to host the breakfast show. Everyone I know that listened to it hit hit the roof and most abandoned the station completely. But there's nothing else to replace it. Nothing is quite as good. The evening show has grown on me and I quite enjoy that, but I'm only getting half the fun out of my commute to and from the office.

edit - words.

 jonolikespie wrote:
If I knew my Dark Elves still existed and they received a new Dreadlord, new spearmen, crossbowmen and cold one knights I'd probably have bought into that (even if it was just to use the minis for KoW)..

I'd have done the same for High Elven spearmen and Silver Helms, for instance. Assuming, of course, they didn't decide the mess up with the scale.


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 wuestenfux wrote:
How is your opinion about the Sigmarines.
I neither like the look of the models nor the fluff.

On the other hand, the Goreblood models look fantastic and I'm using some in my 30k WE army.

Sigmarines are (IMO, ofc) a direct and shameless attempt at sucking in 40k Space Marine players (hence the nickname :p) I find them uninspiring both model and fluffwise (they are literally copy pasted Astartes).

That being said, I might buy one on ebay to use as a statue in Mordheim scenery. And the Griffon Hound too - though it technically doesn't qualify as a Sigmarine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As your post indicates, many people think that GW expect whatever they do to be popular just because. After Dread Fleet that seems unrealistic, but that is another topic.

I don't really think GW gives a damn about how a very specific standalone box was received. I bet you they just said "Ah it's not our forte - they were just ships anyway. We need to go back to 40k-like stuff! That's what we really excel at" and chugged it along the rest of the SG range kills they have made along the years.

timd wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The price on UK Amazon is about £60 including postage, which is 20% discount. This is not a fire sale price.

US Amazon price is $65 with free shipping vs GW's $125 with free shipping = 48% discount.

T

That's a fire sale price. The retailer probably is selling the box for less than it cost him, because he needs to get rid of them and can't shift them at any higher price.

Maybe the game is doing better in the UK than in the USA?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kestral wrote:
It is also worth noting that the Amazon reviews have 65% 5 stars and 35% 1 star (out of 20 reviews), and nothing in between. Either you love it or hate it.

Yes, that is interesting. Most products have a pattern of lots of high scores and a few low scores, or the opposite. That's because on the whole, people who buy things like them. (This is well-known psychology in Marketing.) Therefore people buy things, like them and write good reviews. There's always a few people who don't like it and write a bad review. If you look at low scoring reviews, they are sometimes bollocks anyway.

OTOH there are a few products that genuinely are crap, and attract a lot of bad reviews for good reasons.

With AoS the pattern shows that there is a serious split in the market. Considering that people are more likely to write positive reviews than negative reviews, we might estimate that half of GW's customers like AoS and half of them hate it.

That doesn't seem a good success ratio for a company that has been the world's leading publishing of Fantasy/SF wargames for 25 years.

Calth is close to 25% off on Amazon.com, too, though, with free shipping to boot. It's also the #1 seller in tabletop games on amazon.com (USA), so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I suspect some of it is retailers that bought the number of copies to get the marketing and early shipment perks, and are just unloading stuff so as not to tie up capital. Also, some amazon.com US sellers buy from a non-US market (like Canada) where the cost is actually lower due to the very strong us dollar.

I get the impression a lot of stores were encouraged to buy many more boxes than they wanted, and are trying to dump stock. I doubt it's a US only thing.

As for it's failure, I was in the excited camp, I'd even talked my friend into getting back in, and then it dropped and I was in total disbelief. The rumours couldn't be true, it was a terrible plan.

The old world was gone, and replaced with a fairly obvious and cynical phoned in effort - fantasy Space Marines.

There's almost nothing in the new world to get excited about yet - my friends massive Bret army just disappeared, I had nothing to buy back into (because I don't like Space Marines or Chaos). There's nothing to get hooked in.

All the names have changed; there's no idea what an Aelf is, except it's supposedly different to an Elf. Is it worth buying my Dawi?

Then the rules; free and only 4 pages, awesome. Then people started reviewing it and the number of game breaking faults eclipsed the rules themselves.

Then there was the 'special' rules for legacy armies that were taking the piss out of old gamers - pretending to ride a horse, offending your opponent. It because clear that GW didn't put any effort into these rules, and had nothing but contempt for old players.

Since this was a new game, with no relation to WHFB, it had to stand on it's own 2 feet against new competition, and it failed miserably; the rules are a mess (which is an achievement with only 4 pages), the game is totally shallow.

I was going to get into AoS as a faster version of WHFB, but since there's no WHFB in it, it needs to take me away from my other games - Malifaux, FoW, Frostgrave. And it's inferior to them in every way.

Sure, some of the models are cool, but not enough to tempt me.

Worse, I'd probably have picked it up if there was a scene for it up here, as a game is a game, but beyond a handful of "WTF is going on?" posts, there was no interest at all. It'd killed GW fantasy gaming overnight.

That said; it's the best thing to happen to gaming in years - GW has single-handledly boosted Frostgrave and Kings Of War in ways they could never have dreamed possible, and broken many people out of the "GW is the one true hobby" mentality. Awful for GW, great for gamers.


TLDR; it was the wrong game, aimed at the wrong people, and mismanaged in every possible way.

I would imagine AoS or indeed any GW game would perform better in the UK than elsewhere as the GW store network is so prevalent.

An extreme revision of an old favourite will need constant promotion to keep up the buzz especially with the odd follow up AoS had to its initial release.

I liked the AoS boxset (and rules) but after that it was a slow weekly drip of more Sigmarites, eventually more Chaos (all great models here) and some reboxed existing models.

I think they need to reinforce the release of the game and new world they have created with some revamped forces, the oft discussed fire-dwarves being a good example. Reboxed models doesn't add to the excitement. Sigmarines probably work for rookies but lack much bite to grasp the imagination of anyone who wants a bit of depth to their gaming.

While the rules are free I get the feeling that you are now paying for the fluff. The world description in the AoS box is light on fluff and more seems to be included in the follow up books but £45 for a fluff and campaign book is more that I want to pay. I bought the first novel (fortunately heavily reduced) but it was way to thin in pages and added nothing to the limited fluff in the AoS box.

Basically GW are not giving you enough of the world to get your imagination going, the concept of it is fine but at the moment it falls short for me without this.

There are a few old players enjoying this at our club and the GW stores I've been to seem to have plenty of players enjoying it.

For me as much as i'm okay with the rules (and I can field a VC force with skellie bowmen for the first time in about a decade!) there isn't enough for me (yet) to stop playing Mordheim and Warmaster regularly.

 notprop wrote:
While the rules are free I get the feeling that you are now paying for the fluff. The world description in the AoS box is light on fluff and more seems to be included in the follow up books but £45 for a fluff and campaign book is more that I want to pay. I bought the first novel (fortunately heavily reduced) but it was way to thin in pages and added nothing to the limited fluff in the AoS box.

I have come to consider this exact point many times during the past few weeks. And it makes the purchase of the Battletomes even more of a waste of cash, imo.

I had no time or money put into Fantasy and was eagerly awaiting AoS. When it was released, the lack of rules and points values was a huge turnoff. I watched some videos on how to play the game and it had very little appeal for me to spend the money. Stayed with 40K.

The price is another peeve for me. I got the starter box and started a sigmarine army because it was a good deal, I picked up a box of the guys with guns/bows because I wanted em.. but honestly I don't see me buying anything else for the army at all at the current prices.. unless I get a 2nd starter box. Actually, I've been trying to trade the khorne minis I got for more sigmarines, but have had no luck. Guess everyone else has the same idea

$40 for 1 hero model? no. $50 for 3 flappy wing guys? no. $50 for a box of 5 troop guys, maybe but I'd rather just get the starter set.

I'm starting to think (maybe hope) Age of Sigmar is just a public beta test, or alpha test, and they'll be putting together a new rulebook soon that makes the game 40kish. Too bad we'll never know until a week before it's released.

Its failing because its core mechanic describes the game perfectly, its pointless.

I'm no fan of AoS but the traffic on this site for AoS doesn't seem to have slowed down much in comparison to the old Warhammer Fantasy traffic.

It will be interesting to see if many AoS players migrate to Osprey's Dragon Rampant system when it is released in late December.

 George Spiggott wrote:
I'm no fan of AoS but the traffic on this site for AoS doesn't seem to have slowed down much in comparison to the old Warhammer Fantasy traffic.

I think what they are saying is a lot more important than how many people are speaking at this point.