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I wouldn't mind Vendettas not being able to carry any troops 3 flying TL lascannons for 125 points? Omg, yes! 3 TL Lascannons for 175 points? Eeeeeh. And the sheer fact, that we had something that was on par with - at that time op - hell turkeys made them even more awesome

Hydra did have a FW model. But the poor Hydra was (and still is) one of those "meh" choices...

CragHack wrote:
I wouldn't mind Vendettas not being able to carry any troops 3 flying TL lascannons for 125 points? Omg, yes! 3 TL Lascannons for 175 points? Eeeeeh. And the sheer fact, that we had something that was on par with - at that time op - hell turkeys made them even more awesome

Hydra did have a FW model. But the poor Hydra was (and still is) one of those "meh" choices...

Hydra did have a FW model, but that goes with what I was saying.

The only things that were really "new" in there were variations of basic tanks, FW products put into the book, variants on Hellhounds, and the Deathstrike.

Oh and a single character (Lukas Bastonne) who never got a model and was cut when the book got redone.

The first codex introduction of the Vendetta did NOT have a reduced transport capacity, it was 12 models, just like the Valkyrie. It wasn't until Astra Militarum that the capacity was slashed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh and a single character (Lukas Bastonne) who never got a model and was cut when the book got redone.

Mogul Kamir did not receive a model either.

 BrookM wrote:
The first codex introduction of the Vendetta did NOT have a reduced transport capacity, it was 12 models, just like the Valkyrie. It wasn't until Astra Militarum that the capacity was slashed.

Yup, that's my bad. There was a blurb published that talked about how "like the Razorback, the Vendetta sacrifices carrying capacity for its armaments" but that was bunk.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh and a single character (Lukas Bastonne) who never got a model and was cut when the book got redone.

Mogul Kamir did not receive a model either.

Kamir had an older model still available at that time though. Just for like a year or so, but he was still available.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Kamir had an older model still available at that time though. Just for like a year or so, but he was still available.

Picture? Link? Source?

 BrookM wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Kamir had an older model still available at that time though. Just for like a year or so, but he was still available.

Picture? Link? Source?

I'm thinking of the Attilan Rough Riders that were available individually at the time and a conversion that got featured. My bad.

Doesn't change my point any if I can't remember things in precise detail that are from 2008(and/or earlier). Bastonne and Kamir didn't get models, but Kamir WAS a character that existed in 2nd edition and still has been mentioned.

Bastonne existed for one edition and was gone, even being written out of the damn fluff. Just like the ability to actually field friggin' Kasrkin based armies.

I want my Griffon Mortars back in the codex. I love the Wyvern, and I do like the Basilisk, but how about they put the Griffon back in, since it serves as an intermediate step between the two?

It's Ordnance, so it gets some of the benefits and drawbacks of the Basilisk (Though not as many) while being moderately high strength (ST:6) and decent AP (AP:4). It's large blast, but still twinlinked and won't mulch infantry quite as much as the Wyvern with no Shred no Ignores Cover.

Bring back the Griffon, the artillery tank we both need, and deserve!

Just my opinion on that.

As for the rest of the codex, I would love to see some of the elite choices made to be actually useful and not joke/gimmick level. Why would you EVER field a unit of Wyrdvane Psykers when you can get a ML 1 Psyker that's an Independent Character for 10 points less than a base squad of Wyrdvanes. Ogryns can be useful in some situations but are vastly overcosted, as are ALL of the Hellhound variants.

The entire codex needs a rebalance from top to bottom to include addressing costs, and addressing the fact that two of the defining tanks in the Guard arsenal, the Leman Russ and Leman Russ Demolisher are both nigh useless as gun platforms because of the Ordnance rule making all other weapons snap fire only when the main gun fires. Bring back Lumbering Behemoth so that these tanks can once again fire to full effect and ignore the stupid snap fire all weapons other than the ordnance weapon rule.

That's what I'd like to see. Mostly pipe dreams I'm sure, but a man can dream.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Bring back Lumbering Behemoth so that these tanks can once again fire to full effect and ignore the stupid snap fire all weapons other than the ordnance weapon rule.

I don't see why we need yet another special rule in this game. Just make the guns "primary weapon", it's literally the same thing as ordinance but without the snap shot penalty.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I want my Griffon Mortars back in the codex.

The Griffon counts as a Wyvern, simple as that. Better, too.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I want my Griffon Mortars back in the codex.

The Griffon counts as a Wyvern, simple as that. Better, too.

No, it isn't.

The Wyvern does d!ck all to armor of any kind. The Griffon is more of a general all-rounder and it's large blast, plus versus armor it rolls 2D6 (taking the highest of the two dice) thanks to being ordnance for the armor penetration roll at ST:6. It can also double-out T:3 models with more than one wound (They are somewhat rare, granted, but there are a few Multi-wound T:3 models out there floating around) all while being twinlinked, just like the Wyvern, and at the same range as the Wyvern.

I'm not calling the Griffon superior to the Wyvern, nor am I calling the Wyvern superior to the Griffon, I'm saying they both fill a particular niche and each has a unique role in the army. You want to mulch infantry, bring a Wyvern. You want to drop heavy artillery shells, bring a Basilisk (Or a Manticore), you want something that is in the middle of the two, then grab a Griffon.

That said, I've run both, and honestly I prefer the Griffon for the sheer utility of it. It's only 10 points more expensive than a Wyvern, and I can kill infantry and threaten a lot of tanks I run up against most days. My pair of Griffon tanks have killed more Rhino and Chimera based chassis than you can shake a stick at, and they usually kill swaths of infantry as well with a couple of ST:6, AP:4 large blasts landing fairly accurately thanks to the mortar being twinlinked.

To each their own. You prefer the Wyvern, more power to you! I just much prefer the Griffon if given the option to run one personally. Hopefully it will re-appear with an updated Basilisk as a combo tank kit (Basilisk/Griffon) a-la the Hydra/Wyvern kit.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I am absolutely in love with the Wyvern. It doesn't matter if the thing you're shooting at has armour when it has to take 20 saves.

Looking forward to getting my new atrillery pieces for the Emperor's Wrath formation. Looks sick!

 alleus wrote:
I am absolutely in love with the Wyvern. It doesn't matter if the thing you're shooting at has armour when it has to take 20 saves.

Looking forward to getting my new atrillery pieces for the Emperor's Wrath formation. Looks sick!

Wyverns are absolutely brutal, and undercosted to the degree of an Eldar unit.

Vendettas, I'd love to see them go to 145 points or so, 6 man capacity, and give it and the valkyrie the Strafing Run and Gunship (may not choose to Skyfire even thouh it is a flier) rule. Then add a plastic Thunderbolt kit as Air Superiority.

 alleus wrote:
I am absolutely in love with the Wyvern. It doesn't matter if the thing you're shooting at has armour when it has to take 20 saves.

Looking forward to getting my new atrillery pieces for the Emperor's Wrath formation. Looks sick!

When I say armor, I mean something with an Armor Value, as Shred doesn't work against something with an armor value (Re-rolling failed to-wound is nice, but doesn't help against armor value) and being ST:4 and barrage you're (usually) only ever hitting side armor with that ST:4 hit. Sadly, there are only a few tanks/vehicles out there that have AV:10 sides (Most chimera variants, I.G. Sentinels, Ork trukks, Eldar war-walkers and Vypers, and Dark Eldar vehicles are the only ones I can think of).

That's what I meant when I said Armored Targets. Wyvern tanks can kill terminators without issue (all be it somewhat slowly) due to volume of wounds inflicted/saves forced. The few times I've run a Wyvern they usually do well, especially for their points cost.

Just clarifying. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 alleus wrote:
I am absolutely in love with the Wyvern. It doesn't matter if the thing you're shooting at has armour when it has to take 20 saves.

Looking forward to getting my new atrillery pieces for the Emperor's Wrath formation. Looks sick!

When I say armor, I mean something with an Armor Value, as Shred doesn't work against something with an armor value (Re-rolling failed to-wound is nice, but doesn't help against armor value) and being ST:4 and barrage you're (usually) only ever hitting side armor with that ST:4 hit. Sadly, there are only a few tanks/vehicles out there that have AV:10 sides (Most chimera variants, I.G. Sentinels, Ork trukks, Eldar war-walkers and Vypers, and Dark Eldar vehicles are the only ones I can think of).

That's what I meant when I said Armored Targets. Wyvern tanks can kill terminators without issue (all be it somewhat slowly) due to volume of wounds inflicted/saves forced. The few times I've run a Wyvern they usually do well, especially for their points cost.

Just clarifying. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I think thats kind of the point with of the wyvern, its not supposed to be killing tanks, its dedicated anti-infantry. Meaning you need to get your anti tank else where (and which the guard can have a few fun options, like Vanquishers, Demolishers, Medusa, and Rapier Laser destroyers)

If you like Str 6 all rounders ive had great success with Eradicators, and they are cheap and hard to kill to boot!

I've always played my guard as having a select amount of specialized units then cramming the extra spaces with men to clog the engines of your foes. Ive also discovered that going MSU on 10 man infantry squads and giving them krak grenades is also an amazing way to get anti-tank

AFAIC, it's a difference between HE and AT warheads, and they should be combined.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
AFAIC, it's a difference between HE and AT warheads, and they should be combined.

yes the LRBT should be able to switch between HE and AP shells in each shooting pahse. as acombination of Vanqisher and LRBT.

So should the Bassie & Griffon/Wyvern.

 vostroyan second born wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
AFAIC, it's a difference between HE and AT warheads, and they should be combined.

yes the LRBT should be able to switch between HE and AP shells in each shooting pahse. as acombination of Vanqisher and LRBT.

But this is Imperium tech.....so they would have to unload the gun, rub some mystical ointment on it to make the spirits feel better, then reload the shells, assuming they actually got some and the Anti-Tank rounds weren't accidentally sent to a world with no tanks =P

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
So should the Bassie & Griffon/Wyvern.

Artillery pieces don't generally have Armor Piercing rounds.

Variable rounds is something that need to(and probably will) be a thing when we get an updated book.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
So should the Bassie & Griffon/Wyvern.

Artillery pieces don't generally have Armor Piercing rounds.

Variable rounds is something that need to(and probably will) be a thing when we get an updated book.

HEAT shells perhaps?

I'd just like my Scions to be worth taking.

Edit: *Storm troopers

Edit 2: Kasrkin

Is there a reason this thread still exists? It's basically been confirmed that it's false rumors and nothing but formation release for campaign.

To be fair the Monka formations are new.


And technically, I could actually field one legally:

1+ Command
Battlegroup Command
1 Company Command Squad (in Chimera)
1 Commissar
I only have 6 Russes, so this has to be a CCS

Core (0-3 per Command)

"Emporer's Fist" Tank Company
1 Tank Commander (in LRBT, w/ 2nd LRBT)
3 Leman Russ Squadrons (1 Demolisher ea.)
1 Enginseer
No way I'm fielding 170 Guardsmen (plus Sentinels)!

Auxiliary (0-3 per Core)
"Emporer's Blade" Assault Company
1 Company Command Squad (in Chimera)
3 Veterans Squads (in Chimeras)
2 Hellhound Squadrons (1 ea)

"Emporer's Wrath" Artillery Company
1 Company Command Squad
1 Basilisk (or Wyvern)
1 Hydra
1 Deathstrike Missile Launcher (or Manticore)
1 Enginseer

"Emporer's Shield" Infantry Platoon
1 Platoon Command Squad
5 Infantry Squads
4 Heavy Weapon Squads (HB, Mortar, 2x ML)
2 Special Weapon Squads (Melta & Plasma)
1 Conscript Squad
+1 Sentinel
This ESIP would be over 100 models and over 1,000 pts! Problem is, points costs being what they are, it's just not going to be competitive. Even with limited Move through Cover and/or Move & Shoot. Probably better to take a regular Infantry Platoon or something.

Overall, I think the minimum Command & Core comsumes roughly 1,000 pts, and adding any Aux is like 1,000 pts each. Very unwieldy for army building.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
[i]This would be over 100 models and over 1,000 pts!

Missed some 0 here?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
[i]This would be over 100 models and over 1,000 pts!

Missed some 0 here?

And some 2 instead of 1 in front

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
To be fair the Monka formations are new.


And technically, I could actually field one legally:

1+ Command
Battlegroup Command
1 Company Command Squad (in Chimera)
1 Commissar
I only have 6 Russes, so this has to be a CCS

Core (0-3 per Command)

"Emporer's Fist" Tank Company
1 Tank Commander (in LRBT, w/ 2nd LRBT)
3 Leman Russ Squadrons (1 Demolisher ea.)
1 Enginseer
No way I'm fielding 170 Guardsmen (plus Sentinels)!

Auxiliary (0-3 per Core)
"Emporer's Blade" Assault Company
1 Company Command Squad (in Chimera)
3 Veterans Squads (in Chimeras)
2 Hellhound Squadrons (1 ea)

"Emporer's Wrath" Artillery Company
1 Company Command Squad
1 Basilisk (or Wyvern)
1 Hydra
1 Deathstrike Missile Launcher (or Manticore)
1 Enginseer

"Emporer's Shield" Infantry Platoon
1 Platoon Command Squad
5 Infantry Squads
4 Heavy Weapon Squads (HB, Mortar, 2x ML)
2 Special Weapon Squads (Melta & Plasma)
1 Conscript Squad
+1 Sentinel
This ESIP would be over 100 models and over 1,000 pts! Problem is, points costs being what they are, it's just not going to be competitive. Even with limited Move through Cover and/or Move & Shoot. Probably better to take a regular Infantry Platoon or something.

Overall, I think the minimum Command & Core comsumes roughly 1,000 pts, and adding any Aux is like 1,000 pts each. Very unwieldy for army building.

so to summarize the Mon'ka book fro AM
1. the cadian tetachment is crap and its unlikely to be played, cause too expensive
2. some (two) good formations
3. GW did not use the chance to buff the AM (imho this "update" will not increase AM sales)

(imho this "update" will not increase AM sales)

I'm actually quite tempted to buy 7 more tanks, 3 baneblades and 100 guardsmen

CragHack wrote:

(imho this "update" will not increase AM sales)

I'm actually quite tempted to buy 7 more tanks, 3 baneblades and 100 guardsmen

really o_O this behaviour will never bring a new codex

That was sarcasm, I think.

 vostroyan second born wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
To be fair the Monka formations are new.

And technically, I could actually field one legally:

1+ Command
Battlegroup Command

Core (0-3 per Command)
"Emporer's Fist" Tank Company

Auxiliary (0-3 per Core)
"Emporer's Blade" Assault Company
"Emporer's Wrath" Artillery Company
"Emporer's Shield" Infantry Platoon

Overall, I think the minimum Command & Core comsumes roughly 1,000 pts, and adding any Aux is like 1,000 pts each. Very unwieldy for army building.

so to summarize the Mon'ka book fro AM
1. the cadian tetachment is crap and its unlikely to be played, cause too expensive
2. some (two) good formations
3. GW did not use the chance to buff the AM (imho this "update" will not increase AM sales)

1. If you are a treadhead, and don't mind taking a CCS, this doesn't hurt you. If you own an Enginseer, you get to field 5+ Leman Russes in 4 units. The ESIC is completely unplayable, and definitely not worth the points invested.

2. the formations I call out above are "good" relative to the other formations, but not "good" in an absolute sense. Words like "tepid", "lukewarm", "mediocre" come to mind, along with phrases like "phoned in" and utterances like "meh". They certainly aren't close to par with something like Decurion / Gladius, which is where they need to be if GW is to pretend things are "balanced". The other formations like the Valk one are OK, if you were already taking them.

3. The formations aren't compelling. I feel no need to buy Ogryns or Psykers or whatnot. In fact, the 20 models I had considered to stand in as my Psykers are just going to be regular Infantry Squads, which I thought I had an excess of, hence standing them in as Psyker units... I will eventually convert up "count as" Nork and "count as" Sentinels, because they're inexpensive enough to tack onto a Platoon or CCs that they might be playable. Also, I'd need to acquire and build a couple more Enginseers for the various formations. So, I might buy, maybe, 2 Enginseers off eBay. And maybe some conversion bitz.