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So I was informed today not only do the tau not play like RAW, where at least to me it couldnt be more clear that when everyone acts like one unit, then they share the same buffs, but that somehow gargantuan creatures cannot shoot more than 2 weapons.

Why give it 4+? With the D missles it could conciveably fire 8 different things in one turn, than at least 4 more again if the pylons are down. How does it make sense to have 4 weapons standard aside from the limited ammo d missles, when you can only fire two?

Now I understand different weapons have different functions and prime targets, but this just seems incredibly stupid to me. And if its meant to be restricted like that, why not have the option to not pay for weapons you dont think you will use? If I could shave off 30 points by leaving my SMS and twin linked airbursting fragmentation projectors home, I would accept that. And if it was really only meant to fire just two, WHY give it a special rule to ignore that and fire those two twice. You cant even switch, they have to be the same weapons fired.

Do they need an editor or proofreader at GW? Is the design team actually this clueless? Do they even know how the rest of the game works in relation to what they write?

Is the ENTIRE company run solely by the sales department now?

Pages and pages of back and forth they can and they cant arguements. No faq's for over a year. If they are just in it to troll the general population they are doing a masterful job.

Choice. If you want to shoot D-missiles instead of shooting 4d6 S5 shots you have to choose to do so instead of just automatically getting both. It gives it options (much like how Obliterators have a ton of weapon options but only can fire one weapon.)

Of course the "RAW" on GMC and the number of weapons its shoots is not clear and can be argued either way.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Choice. If you want to shoot D-missiles instead of shooting 4d6 S5 shots you have to choose to do so instead of just automatically getting both. It gives it options (much like how Obliterators have a ton of weapon options but only can fire one weapon.)

Of course the "RAW" on GMC and the number of weapons its shoots is not clear and can be argued either way.

Obliterators don't have a ton of weapons on their profile, they choose a single weapon to have each turn. There's a big difference between the two.

In any case, this has already been resolved:



Someone contacted the WD team who in turn contacted the Rules team. GCs can fire all their weapons, just like SHs.

Rejoice!

GMC can fire all their weapons.

Some people will argue and grasp at straws but when it inevitably gets FAQed alot of people will feel silly and alot of people will feel cheated for having listened to silly rule lawyers.

RAW says that gmc can fire weapons like monstrous creatures, but may choose a different target for each of its weapons.

Monstrous creatures can only fire 2 weapons.

There has been a great amount of debate about it and needs to be FAQ'd to be more clear.

An email from the WD team is hardly conclusive without an actual FAQ. It is to easy to fake an email screenshot for most people to accept it.

I do believe that like super heavy vehicles it can fire all of it's weapons but until it gets an FAQ(don't hold your breath) the other side does have a valid point as well.

There have been emails from GW staff verifying that GCs can indeed fire all its weapons. And not just redshirt behind a counter but the white dwarf team themselves on multiple occasions. You know, those people that give us those n8fty little offical GW publication that give use datasheets to look at the codex drops.

Examples
http://s9.postimg.org/jli5u38in/Battlesuit_firing.png

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/attachments/40k-rules-help/54202d1444926098-gargantuan-creatures-shooting-white-dwarf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hy5nXE3.png

and those are just the top three on google image search

Now for the gaining special rules, from combined fire I would suggest emailing white dwarf to ask the rules team as to whether or not that is the case. Once you get a reply anything else besides what you hear is a house rule.

An email from the WD team is hardly conclusive without an actual FAQ. It is to easy to fake an email screenshot for most people to accept it.

I do believe that like super heavy vehicles it can fire all of it's weapons but until it gets an FAQ(don't hold your breath) the other side does have a valid point as well.

This is one of many email responses from GW. And the WD team in turn asked the rules team. It's definitely more conclusive than any house rule.

Here's another btw http://s9.postimg.org/jli5u38in/Battlesuit_firing.png

I personally feel as if the argument in favor of GCs only shooting 2 weapons is unreasonable and tenuous, at best.

If it helps any, the ITC rules that you created a thread about yesterday specify that GCs can fire all weapons, which is, again, both reasonable and fair, which I feel the ITC strives to be.

Because you're absolutely correct - it doesn't make any sense at all to include base on a GC more weapons than it is allowed to fire.

That argument only came about when wraithknights were just introduced as GCs, and could take up to 3 weapon options, and people were desperate to find some way to nerf them, in however petty a way possible.

Not that it matters, or that it'll happen anytime soon, but I heard a rumor that GW was going to address this question with a FAQ.

I don't really think E-mails are valid. It's a fairly simple matter to photoshop emails confirming your preferred interpretation.

Its also freakin common sense people. GW wouldn't be sending out new GC that have 7+ weapons if they could only fire 2.

Yeah putting a TL Burst cannon on a stormsurge makes so much sense if you can only ever fire 2 weapons.

ITC has ruled firing ALL weapons, GW and WD in emails have said fire all weapons, and its also just common sense

Because GW is famous for logic and clear reasoning. They would do that and they have done that e.g. Wraithlords can have 4 weapons but can only shoot 2.

pm713 wrote:
Because GW is famous for logic and clear reasoning. They would do that and they have done that e.g. Wraithlords can have 4 weapons but can only shoot 2.

Thats different completely, MC say specifically they can only shoot 2. Although I can see the ambiguity, shoot each weapon at a different target obviously means all weapons.

pm713 wrote:
Because GW is famous for logic and clear reasoning. They would do that and they have done that e.g. Wraithlords can have 4 weapons but can only shoot 2.

They also gave Captain Lysander three Invulnerable saves (Terminator Armour, Storm Shield and Iron Halo) when he can only ever use one of them.

notredameguy10 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Because GW is famous for logic and clear reasoning. They would do that and they have done that e.g. Wraithlords can have 4 weapons but can only shoot 2.

Thats different completely, Those weapons, mostly the flamer, are meant for overwatch. GC cannot overwatch

A 2 shot S4 weapon is not good for overwatch. Especially when you can have 4 shot S6 weapons. So it seems more likely to me a Wraithlord can take more weapons than it can shoot.

When would you EVER fire a twin linked burst cannon with 4 max shots at str 5 ap 5 over a missile launcher system with 4d6 str 5 ap 5 shots?? Even if you argue twin linked, the range is inferior, and the average on 4d6 is 14. 14 shots not twin linked is still 60 precent more effective than 8 twin linked shots. its a I would never ever ever ever ever choose that over the other. And if you say use a different option, why have that option AT ALL? You dont have the option to replace the missile launcher, which means the burst cannon would always be inferior. Even the SMS is str 5 ap 5 4 twin linked shots. AND it ignores cover. Are you trying to say they made a weapon you would literally never take, to tack on more points cost to the creature when you inevitabley have to upgrade the weapon from the useless state>\?

We need to close this thread. This is merely another "can GC shoot more than 2 weapons?" thread. The consensus across the community, from WD, from GW, and from ITC is yes, they can fire all weapons.

Which is unfortunate, because GMC are already very overpowered.

notredameguy10 wrote:
We need to close this thread. This is merely another "can GC shoot more than 2 weapons?" thread. The consensus across the community, from WD, from GW, and from ITC is yes, they can fire all weapons.

The best way to achieve consensus is clearly to forbid discussion on the subject. I, for one, do not agree with the claim that GCs can shoot more than 2 weapons. You can houserule it however you want to but the BRB very strongly supports my view.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
We need to close this thread. This is merely another "can GC shoot more than 2 weapons?" thread. The consensus across the community, from WD, from GW, and from ITC is yes, they can fire all weapons.

The best way to achieve consensus is clearly to forbid discussion on the subject. I, for one, do not agree with the claim that GCs can shoot more than 2 weapons. You can houserule it however you want to but the BRB very strongly supports my view.

lol Again, not it does not. It specifically says "can fire each weapon at a different target". Firing each weapon (meaning each weapon the GC has) supersedes the MC rule of firing 2 weapons.

There are several examples of units with several redundant or useless equip. The eldar knight when was a normal MC had the option of put 4 weapons; the ork special medik character had FNP of 5+ and has also FNL of 6+.
Non mention some khorne daemonking units that attack with S10 but pay for a mark that givess them +1S when assault xD

Also the rule is clear: shoot like MC. I can fins any problem on it, is really clear.


Well, i can see how people who play GMC to smash the rival also want made them ever more overpowered hahahaah

RAI, they can shoot all weapons.

RAW, you can argue they can only shoot 2 or that they can shoot all of them.

notredameguy10 wrote:
Firing each weapon (meaning each weapon the GC has) supersedes the MC rule of firing 2 weapons.

Indeed.

However, 'Firing each weapon (of the 2 that it is given permission to fire) does not.


There are two different ways people are reading this, and most definitely not a consensus just yet. The emails floating about are a good indication of how it will go if it ever gets FAQd, for those who are willing to accept their authenticity, but for everyone else it's not going to reach any actual consensus until it is added to the FAQ.

sorry, but where is there anything overruling what is on P. 70 of the rulebook?

The line where it says Gargantuan Creatures may fire each of their weapons at a different target, and its certainly debatable.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The line where it says Gargantuan Creatures may fire each of their weapons at a different target, and its certainly debatable.

why? P. 70 of the rulebook under shooting, First sentence, 'When a Gargantuan Creature or Flying Gargantuan Creature makes a shooting attack, it may fire each of its weapons at a different target if desired.' I mean, it isn't stated as having a multi tracker, so that isn't an argument, is it?

 Ghaz wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Because GW is famous for logic and clear reasoning. They would do that and they have done that e.g. Wraithlords can have 4 weapons but can only shoot 2.

They also gave Captain Lysander three Invulnerable saves (Terminator Armour, Storm Shield and Iron Halo) when he can only ever use one of them.

Its funny that you mention that. Because we had a game where I ran lysander and the other guy had a vindicare assassin that tried to break his invun save. I was like "whelp roll a dice" 1-2 its the termie save, 3-4 its the iron halo, 5-6 the storm shield.

He never got the shield.

Does he only take out 1 invuln now? I know in their last edition it was all invuln save wargear in 1 shot.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
We need to close this thread. This is merely another "can GC shoot more than 2 weapons?" thread. The consensus across the community, from WD, from GW, and from ITC is yes, they can fire all weapons.

The best way to achieve consensus is clearly to forbid discussion on the subject. I, for one, do not agree with the claim that GCs can shoot more than 2 weapons. You can houserule it however you want to but the BRB very strongly supports my view.

lol Again, not it does not. It specifically says "can fire each weapon at a different target". Firing each weapon (meaning each weapon the GC has) supersedes the MC rule of firing 2 weapons.

What does a rule that is about what can be targeted override the rules that tell us how many weapons that can be fired?

I have 4 puppies. I give away 2 of them. I give each puppy to a different person. How many puppies have I given away?