Grav Cannons on a Non-Centurion Unit

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**Valkyrie**

While I'm building up my Marines the newly-added Grav Cannon came to mind. I'm in the middle of building a Skyhammer formation, and for the Devestators I've planned on giving them Multi-Meltas and Heavy Bolters (1 Squad of each), yet one of my friends swears by Grav Cannons for such a role.

I know Grav Cannons are good, but are they worth their astronomical cost? Giving a Devestator Squad Grav-Cannons triples the cost of the initial squad, yet it seems everything they can do could be done via other means such as Meltas and H. Bolters.

Am I being too points-thrifty? Are Gravs worth 35pts apiece? What about taken as a single weapon in a Tactical Squad?

**War Kitten**

Grav cannons make marines cry in a way a heavy bolter does not. Plus relentless from sky hammer means you get lots of shots on the drop

**ryuken87**

Valkyrie wrote:
it seems everything they can do could be done via other means such as Meltas and H. Bolters

Wraithknights? I don't really think Heavy Bolters excel at anything. They're ok for their points but unless your meta has a lot of 4+ armour then the points are better spent elsewhere.

Grav cannons are definately worth it in a Skyhammer due to Relentless and the alpha (or perhaps beta) strike, I'd stick a combi grab on the sergeant as well. On regular Devastators they're too expensive generally, but the unit itself is fairly easy to kill especially as it has to be closeish to do damage.

**Ashiraya**

Yeah, what the others said. Gravcannon devastators are very expensive and fragile, but that doesn't matter when they can drop in, kill a Wraithknight and then just lol around for the rest of the game.

Heavy bolters don't really do anything.

**vipoid**

Grav Cannons might appear expensive, but look at what they can do.

When they land, each guy has 5 AP2 shots that wound most units on 2s or 3s with rerolls - regardless of toughness. So, that's 20 AP2 shots in each 5-man devastator squad.

Can you name another unit in the game that can match that?

**Unit1126PLL**

What do heavy bolters or multi meltas do to Wraithknights? Oh, that's right, feth all.

What do grav cannons do to wraithknighta? Butchers them like the pigs they are!

**djones520**

vipoid wrote:
Grav Cannons might appear expensive, but look at what they can do.

When they land, each guy has 5 AP2 shots that wound most units on 2s or 3s with rerolls - regardless of toughness. So, that's 20 AP2 shots in each 5-man devastator squad.

Can you name another unit in the game that can match that?

And hence, the ridiculousness of Grav Cannons is made plain for all to see.

Anyways, yes. Take the gravy. It's OP, so no reason not to.

**vipoid**

For anyone interested, 20 Grav Cannons = 7.9 wounds on a WK.

So, there's even a good margin of error for killing one.

**Nevelon**

When I first saw them I was a little shocked by the price on a PA marine. Wish they had the option to come without the grav amp for less points. But the more I look at them and run the numbers, the better they look.

They are Salvo, so fire on the move. Sure, you only get 3 shots, rather then 5, but you get full ballistic skill on them. I may be biased as an Ultramarine player, but I’ve got tons of doctrines that let me re-roll to hit. Other chapters can get the same thing with formations/librarians. Even in the worst case scenario (barring snap shots vs. flyers) you are going to land 2 hits on your target. Standing still/relentless with any sort of re-rolls, getting 4-5 should be normal.

Unless you are shooting at orks or someone else with a t-shirt save, most of those hits are going to covert into wounds. Even 4+ saves. And any MEQ or TEQ is just going to evaporate.

Because it’s AP2, so no armor saves. Cover and invuln might save you.

So what we have is a gun that can casually pop two MEQ even in a worst case scenario. Even if those are basic naked tactical marines, it basically made it’s points back in one round of fire. But when you consider that it works better at taking out the more expensive things that are probably ripping your army apart, it’s best case scenario is just goes up from there.

I’m putting together a full grav tac squad. I think it’s going to go into most lists. There is a ton of really nasty stuff out there, and grav is the answer. Even in a friendly meta, where the really ugly stuff doesn’t come out and play, there is more then enough stuff on the table for them to justify their points.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

**vipoid**

Out of interest, when you use Grav in a Tactical squad, what transport do you use?

**Nevelon**

vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, when you use Grav in a Tactical squad, what transport do you use?

I’m still in the theoretical stage, as I’m a slow painter and only recently came around to accepting the massive price tag. But either pods or rhino should work.

When I first saw grav, I was a firm believer that plasma guns were still the better choice for a squad on the move (like tacs). But 9” for the basic grav gun, or 12” for the cannon on the move is not that bad. How often do you flamer things? That’s a bit over 8”, and I burn things all the time, either out of a pod or rhino. So you roll up, or drop down on your target, disembark, and blow them apart. Range shouldn’t be an issue. In subsequent turns, you might not need to move, so get the extra range. But if you have to foot slog it to the next objective, you can still maintain a decent threat radius.

The only transport I’d not go with would be the razorback. Or anything else without a fire port. Leaning out the top hatch and graving things is probably better then paying points for the turret.

**raiden**

I've actually started running 2 skyhammers for competitive, two squads with grav, two with HBs, grav take out big scary things. While the HBs force GtG and take out infantry, the ASM assault anything that can threaten my grav squads.

**ZergSmasher**

I have started running a Devastator squad with the full ten men, using combat squads. I take 2 lascannons and 2 gravcannons as my main weapons. The gravs go in a rhino and shoot stuff out the top hatch. Rhinos are fragile, but they do help keep the grav guys alive (until inevitably the Rhino gets wrecked. I try to run it up the board on the first turn, then just park it and let the gravs do their magical, musical thing. Meanwhile my las-devs are in the backfield shooting up tanks and stuff. This works fairly well in my Lion's Blade detachment. I only wish attack bikes could take gravcannons...

**Bryan01**

Trying them out in 10 men Tac squads with a Plasma gun as the special. Raptor chapter tactics so the bolters may use heavy 1 rendering if they don't move. Means most of the time, the bolters shouldn't be totally wasted.

Lias Issodon completes the deck by infiltrating them into the midfield (and hopefully cover). Probably the nastiest way of running CAD tactical marines that I can think of.

Worth it? Time will tell.

**Zach**

Grav weapons are so hilariously unbalanced and broken that I would be shocked not to see them.

**chaosmarauder**

I'd like to see a grav based double skyhammer list against a green tide with tshirt save though.

**Martel732**

Iechine wrote:
Grav weapons are so hilariously unbalanced and broken that I would be shocked not to see them.

Not even remotely true.