British army to have new strike brigades to fight ISIL...but won't be ready til 2025!

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**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

The debacle that is the British military continues unabated.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/23/cameron-to-announce-new-strike-brigades-in-strategic-defence-review#comments

If you think that's bad, we've got aircraft carriers under construction that won't be ready for years, and have 8 aircraft between them!

The Royal Navy has more admirals than ships!

The Army is done to the bare bones. We have 1 general for every 900 troops!

Scotland is undefended, with Russian submarines prowling the coast with impunity, because the UK government scrapped the patrol aircraft, and now the French are helping us out

What a complete and utter shambles....what a clusterfeth!

Hopefully, if we're very lucky, Britain's enemies will have the courtesy to wait until we're ready...

**LethalShade**

South Park was right when it depicted the modern British army

**Goliath**

It's good to know that austerity is extending to the military.

Tax credit cuts are absolutely vital in order to ensure a balanced budget, so that they can immediately be rendered pointless by a £12bn increase in military spending. On the F35.

*claps*

**SilverMK2**

You know what this sounds like we need? To stop romping about all over the world and have an armed forces which is capable of defending the nation where the nation actually is. A Home Guard if you will.

**Ahtman**

If you aren't spending at least 50% of your GDP on the military then it is obvious that you are commies.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

America must be laughing all the way to the bank, because we'll be chucking billions at them for new aircraft.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:
If you aren't spending at least 50% of your GDP on the military then it is obvious that you are commies.

You Americans have had a lot to say on dakka when it comes to the US military and bad decisions, but compared to the UK military's incompetence, you guys are total amateurs.

We scrapped maritime patrol aircraft a few years ago, which cost us hundreds of millions, now we're having to buy replacements from you guys at the cost of billions!

**LordofHats**

America, the only country that legitimately asks "do we have enough dakka"

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

LordofHats wrote:
America, the only country that legitimately asks "do we have enough dakka"

I've got nothing against America, but I do resent my hard earned tax money ending up in American pockets because my government couldn't organise a funeral in a graveyard!!!

**nareik**

GB should have listened to the advice Dakka always gives;

Never sell off your armies! You won't get as much as what you paid for them, and they will probably cost even more to replace!

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

nareik wrote:
GB should have listened to the advice Dakka always gives;

Never sell off your armies! You won't get as much as what you paid for them, and they will probably cost even more to replace!

Traditionally, the English, and then the later British public, have had a love hate relationship with the Army - The Navy has always been the poster boy, which makes sense for an island nation.

The state of the Royal Navy is shocking. We're down to the bare bones of 3 rowing boats, 12 well paid and useless admirals, and an expensive nuclear deterrent that will never be fired, and is thus, a fething spectacular waste of 100 billion pounds!!!

Mad? You bet I'm

mad!

**Vaktathi**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The debacle that is the British military continues unabated.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/23/cameron-to-announce-new-strike-brigades-in-strategic-defence-review#comments

If you think that's bad, we've got aircraft carriers under construction that won't be ready for years, and have 8 aircraft between them!

The Royal Navy has more admirals than ships!

The Army is done to the bare bones. We have 1 general for every 900 troops!

Scotland is undefended, with Russian submarines prowling the coast with impunity, because the UK government scrapped the patrol aircraft, and now the French are helping us out

What a complete and utter shambles....what a clusterfeth!

Hopefully, if we're very lucky, Britain's enemies will have the courtesy to wait until we're ready...

A lot of this isn't unique to the UK, the US for instance has an insanely bloated number of generals and admirals. While not *quite* as bad as the UK, the US has one general for every 1600 troops, and has nearly a 1:1 parity of Admirals per commissioned ship. Officer bloat exists for some legitimate reasons (the logistical and planning activities of modern warfare are far more complex and demanding than in the past), but also in many ways mirror corporate executive management bloat & compensation inflation within the civilian world.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Vaktathi wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The debacle that is the British military continues unabated.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/23/cameron-to-announce-new-strike-brigades-in-strategic-defence-review#comments

If you think that's bad, we've got aircraft carriers under construction that won't be ready for years, and have 8 aircraft between them!

The Royal Navy has more admirals than ships!

The Army is done to the bare bones. We have 1 general for every 900 troops!

Scotland is undefended, with Russian submarines prowling the coast with impunity, because the UK government scrapped the patrol aircraft, and now the French are helping us out

What a complete and utter shambles....what a clusterfeth!

Hopefully, if we're very lucky, Britain's enemies will have the courtesy to wait until we're ready...

A lot of this isn't unique to the UK, the US for instance has an insanely bloated number of generals and admirals. While not *quite* as bad as the UK, the US has one general for every 1600 troops, and has nearly a 1:1 parity of Admirals per commissioned ship. Officer bloat exists for some legitimate reasons (the logistical and planning activities of modern warfare are far more complex and demanding than in the past), but also in many ways mirror corporate executive management bloat & compensation inflation within the civilian world.

True words, but you guys spend $600 billion a year on defence - you can afford those extra generals.

Plus with your military strength, who's going to mess with the USA?

It's different in the UK. We're supposed to be running out of money here, austerity is the key word, with cuts to public services hurting a lot of people, and yet, we have money to waste through bad decisions....

Also, according to my military history knowledge, 1000 troops, which usually makes a battalion, is supposed to be commanded by a major or a colonel, and not a general. Or am I wrong?

**Kilkrazy**

We're not running out of money. The UK is the 6th richest coutry in the world, and we only slipped down the ranking because China went up. (Not difficult for them with 20 times our population.)

The fundamental problem is (1) our government doesn't want to tax the rich and spend money on services like security, (2) our government's strategic and spending priorities are compeltely wrong.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Kilkrazy wrote:
We're not running out of money. The UK is the 6th richest coutry in the world, and we only slipped down the ranking because China went up. (Not difficult for them with 20 times our population.)

The fundamental problem is (1) our government doesn't want to tax the rich and spend money on services like security, (2) our government's strategic and spending priorities are compeltely wrong.

Where have you been for the last five years?

All we've had from Dave is austerity austerity austerity!

**Iron_Captain**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The debacle that is the British military continues unabated.

The Royal Navy has more admirals than ships!

The Army is done to the bare bones. We have 1 general for every 900 troops!

So now you can have officers heroically leading from the front again! The generals are expendable anyways

And every ship is to be commanded by an admiral! The Royal Navy will be undefeatable because of their superior leadership!

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The debacle that is the British military continues unabated.

The Royal Navy has more admirals than ships!

The Army is done to the bare bones. We have 1 general for every 900 troops!

So now you can have officers heroically leading from the front again! The generals are expendable anyways
And every ship is to be commanded by an admiral! The Royal Navy will be undefeatable because of their superior leadership!

If every modern British admiral was the reincarnation of Nelson, then the USA and China would be rolling up the white flag and the British Empire would be in full swing again

but unfortunately, our admirals are more Simpsons' Nelson that Horatio Nelson!

**Kilkrazy**

There isnt scope for using the RN in the middle of a desert anyway.

I thought we were supposed to have been reorganising the army with strike brigades and stuff in the mid-1990s.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Kilkrazy wrote:
There isnt scope for using the RN in the middle of a desert anyway.

I thought we were supposed to have been reorganising the army with strike brigades and stuff in the mid-1990s.

Well, the last defence review in 2010, charged with creating the army of 2020, was supposed to solve this, but historically, the Conservatives have always botched the UK's defence.

It's a myth that Labour bankrupts the UK and the Tories save it, and yet, the Conservative record on defence is shocking, but nobody takes them to task on this.

Conservatives ran down the military in the 1930s.

John Nott's defence cuts in the 1980s gave Argentina the green light to attack the Falklands

and know, the Tories are botching defence...again!

**Orlanth**

Actually it is because Labour botched the entire economy, and sent the UK into spirally almost unrecoverable debt.

Austerity is a sad necessity, brought about by the need to settle toxic debt.

It could be handled better that is true, but that would require a shake up of the MoD, and the rest of the civil service, and none of the parties are willing to face them.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Orlanth wrote:
Actually it is because Labour botched the entire economy, and sent the UK into spirally almost unrecoverable debt.

Austerity is a sad necessity, brought about by the need to settle toxic debt.

It could be handled better that is true, but that would require a shake up of the MoD, and the rest of the civil service, and none of the parties are willing to face them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11642595/Break-up-the-RAF-and-stop-buying-British.html

Defence procurement in the UK has always had the aim of keeping a few thousand people in well paid jobs/expenses, despite the cost to the taxpayer.

The same stuff could be bought cheaper abroad or off the peg from the USA, but vested interests fight tooth and nail to stop this from happening.

That url links to an excellent article on the subject of the British taxpayer being ripped off when it comes to defence spending.

**Herzlos**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

All we've had from Dave is austerity austerity austerity!

Yeah, but that doesn't mean austerity is actually needed. Dave is a politician, and therefor hasn't told the truth in at least a decade. A man so clued up he forgot his daughter at a lunch, and wrote to his local council asking why they were cutting all their services.

Not that we don't waste money on the MOD, but we waste money all over the shop when it comes to politicians keeping their friends rich.

**Kilkrazy**

That is the purpose of the Establishment.

In this case it is clear that Call Me Dave is pretty much making it up as he goes along, because the armed forces are in no state to form light strike brigades to project force overseas, sue to sheer lack of personnel, and we cannot recruit and train people overnight, particularly when we are spending billions on "cheap" aircraft from the USA (F35, etc.) rather than kit that will do the job.

**jhe90**

classic UK MOD......

Lions run by a group of the finest idiots money can buy,

**Silent Puffin?**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Also, according to my military history knowledge, 1000 troops, which usually makes a battalion, is supposed to be commanded by a major or a colonel, and not a general. Or am I wrong?

Battalions, and most other units, have been commanded by Lieutenant Colonels for a very long time and still are, Generals sit in HQ elements and write papers that few people can be bothered to read.

Orlanth wrote:
Actually it is because Labour botched the entire economy, and sent the UK into spirally almost unrecoverable debt.

If only Thatchers government hadn't created the conditions for the horrific banking free for all that eventually caused the banks to get far too greedy and spectacular fail, not to mention the entire global aspect of the finacial crisis. Of course it was all the Labour party's fault and it would never have happened under the Tories......

Incidentally we already have a rapid reaction force, 16 Air Assault Brigade.

**djones520**

Silent Puffin? wrote:

Incidentally we already have a rapid reaction force, 16 Air Assault Brigade.

This one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10854475/Airborne-elite-force-to-lose-a-third-of-its-troops.html

And do you realize how useless a single brigade is? It typically takes about 2 times the time spent deployed to reconsitute, so what does Britain do during time that the 16th can't do anything? A single modular Brigade, made up the way the 16th is, just isn't really useful for anything. For any true need of a British quick reaction force... well, we'll be the ones doing the heavy lifting, as per usual.

**nels1031**

Screw fighting ISIL and Russian subs in your waters. You got bigger problems...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34899745/army-captain-goes-on-400-word-rant-about-having-to-wait-for-coffee-and-biscuits

A rant about the type of biscuits acceptable for an army captain is going viral among servicemen and women in the UK.
The 400-word email from a serving captain appears to have been sent after the commanding officer had to wait for some coffee.
"This is completely unacceptable," the email reads.
"It is something that needs to be done correctly otherwise you look like idiots."
The email was sent around 11am on 10 November with "high importance".
The email sent to BBC Newsbeat
Image caption The annotated version of the email sent to BBC Newsbeat
She then goes on to give advice about what brand of biscuits should be used and how paper towels should be "made handy" if cake is provided.
"Taylors is a good choice for coffee and don't scrimp on biscuits," the second bullet point of the email details.
"A selection of the following always go down well: Jaffa Cakes, choc malted milks, choc Hobnobs or digestives - and as a treat, party rings or pink wafers."
She continues: "I'm annoyed that I even have to write this. Get a grip and do the duty property", before signing off with "Enough said".
An annotated copy of the email, which is now being passed around other army service personnel, has been sent to Newsbeat.
The email has led to memes, many expressing sympathy for the junior officer responsible for coffee duty.

**Avatar 720**

It's only coffee, she'll live.

It's not a big problem until the tea's late.

**DarkLink**

SilverMK2 wrote:
You know what this sounds like we need? To stop romping about all over the world and have an armed forces which is capable of defending the nation where the nation actually is. A Home Guard if you will.

Because the best way of defending your nation is to wait for the tanks, nukes, and suicide bombers to come to you.

**Iron_Captain**

Avatar 720 wrote:
It's only coffee, she'll live.

It's not a big problem until the tea's late.

And biscuits too. Can't live without biscuits. I don't get why people can't see the seriousness of the problem. How could anyone worry about defending the nation when the biscuits are in danger of running out? It would just completely be impossible to concentrate and do your duty!

**Avatar 720**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Avatar 720 wrote:
It's only coffee, she'll live.

It's not a big problem until the tea's late.

And biscuits too. Can't live without biscuits. I don't get why people can't see the seriousness of the problem. How could anyone worry about defending the nation when the biscuits are in danger of running out? It would just completely be impossible to concentrate and do your duty!

She didn't mention anything about Tunnock's Tea Cakes or Caramel Wafers, nor even Rich Tea biscuits, so I unfortunately cannot sympathise with the situation of someone who would put the status of chocolate-coated malted milk biscuits above those more deserving of recognition. I can only conclude, from the omission of a complaint regarding Rich Tea or Tunnock's selections, that the biscuit situation is tolerable for the time being, although the status of the digestives is concerning.