Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just wanted to let the community know (saw it from the ATT thread) that the ITC vote for the CFP rule is up and some other things.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/11/23/black-friday-sale-itc-vote/#comment-453235

I think you need a ranking to vote though

Still thanks for the link. I'm not happy with some of the questions and how they were phrased (also missing some big issues, such as toe in cover).

No you do not need a ranking to vote. The ranking section is not a required field. Somewhere in the comment section of the podcast it was stated that ITC ranking is not required.

So vote for the sake of voting and representing what the community wants!

I voted. While the wording was odd on the questions, the intent was clear.

SJ

Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Even though the rules say that all contributing units "shoot as if the same unit"? Which clearly mean that rules are shared among all of them, like they normally do in a unit.

I voted to keep current Tank Shock, apply Buffmander bonus to only his unit for Coordinated Firepower, not allow Darkstrider to affect Coordinated Firepower, not allow the benefits of Coordinated Firepower to apply to units that select additional targets for shooting attacks, and not allow the super-cheap Stompa.

I knew playing in an ITC event would pay off! Just don't ask about my ranking or points score...

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Even though the rules say that all contributing units "shoot as if the same unit"? Which clearly mean that rules are shared among all of them, like they normally do in a unit.

This is true, but brings up a whole new argument about "what is a unit?" That's more suited to a YMDC thread than a discussion about the ITC voting.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Even though the rules say that all contributing units "shoot as if the same unit"? Which clearly mean that rules are shared among all of them, like they normally do in a unit.

Nah, I like this ruling better.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Even though the rules say that all contributing units "shoot as if the same unit"? Which clearly mean that rules are shared among all of them, like they normally do in a unit.

Nah, I like this ruling better.

Ahh. so you are one of those people that only votes to keep his own armies better. gotcha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
I voted to keep current Tank Shock, apply Buffmander bonus to only his unit for Coordinated Firepower, not allow Darkstrider to affect Coordinated Firepower, not allow the benefits of Coordinated Firepower to apply to units that select additional targets for shooting attacks, and not allow the super-cheap Stompa.

I knew playing in an ITC event would pay off! Just don't ask about my ranking or points score...

notredameguy10 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Voted to have the firepower only benefit the actual unit buffmander is in, not joining units. Let's hope for our sakes it gets ruled this way

Even though the rules say that all contributing units "shoot as if the same unit"? Which clearly mean that rules are shared among all of them, like they normally do in a unit.

This is true, but brings up a whole new argument about "what is a unit?" That's more suited to a YMDC thread than a discussion about the ITC voting.

What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

My grey Knights, inquisition, militarum Tempestus, imperial Knights, skitarii, and cult mechanicus need all the help they can get

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

No it does not. The shooting sequence is the only time they are "shooting as if one unit". The rules specifically say units do NOT have to be in coherency to shoot.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

No it does not. The shooting sequence is the only time they are "shooting as if one unit". The rules specifically say units do NOT have to be in coherency to shoot.

Page and paragraph please - I can only find rules that say you have to be in coherency as soon as possible, including Running if need be.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

No it does not. The shooting sequence is the only time they are "shooting as if one unit". The rules specifically say units do NOT have to be in coherency to shoot.

I bet you also think the stormsurge can move with the tide wall then anchor and fire twice huh?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

No it does not. The shooting sequence is the only time they are "shooting as if one unit". The rules specifically say units do NOT have to be in coherency to shoot.

I bet you also think the stormsurge can move with the tide wall then anchor and fire twice huh?

Nope. Think the exact opposite. Its pretty clear the SS "cannot move under and condition", which includes if the wall moves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

No it does not. The shooting sequence is the only time they are "shooting as if one unit". The rules specifically say units do NOT have to be in coherency to shoot.

Page and paragraph please - I can only find rules that say you have to be in coherency as soon as possible, including Running if need be.

I have the digital version, so pages won't be the same, but its 384 of digital.

"During the course of a game, a unit can get broken up and lose unit coherency, usually because it has taken casualties from incoming enemy fire. If this happens, in their next movement phase, the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore unit coherency"

Since "shoot as if one unit" only last for the shooting phase and once that is complete they are no longer a unit, coherency is a non factor.

I got a feeling it will be units can gain benefits. If models somehow don't fire at the target of coordinated fire then no benefits to that model shooting at another target other than what it has itself obviously.

Then Darkstrider will be allowed to give -1 Toughness in a coordinated strike. Why wouldn't he?

how long does this vote take time?

notredameguy10 wrote:
I have the digital version, so pages won't be the same, but its 384 of digital.

"During the course of a game, a unit can get broken up and lose unit coherency, usually because it has taken casualties from incoming enemy fire. If this happens, in their next movement phase, the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore unit coherency"

Since "shoot as if one unit" only last for the shooting phase and once that is complete they are no longer a unit, coherency is a non factor.

The next sentence:
"If the unit cannot move in its next turn, or is unable to restore unit coherency in a single turn, then the models must move to restore unit coherency as soon as they have the opportunity, including by running if they have that option"

... so no coordinated firepower with an anchored Stormsurge or you have to run to be in coherency with it?

I voted to allow the new Tau cheese of allowing the CF units to gain the special rules that any of the other units have.

On the other hand, I chose to vote against them being able to do so with their split fire units.

Let the Tau have their new cheese. The meta will adjust accordingly I think.


p.s. I'm not a Tau player and I hate playing against them, lol. I think missle-sides have a special place in 40k hell reserved just for them.

Voted maximum death for all options.

Until the 26th.

I voted cheese. It's not fair to outright ban the stuff without even seeing if it overpowered on the tabletop.

Wow, there sure are alot of people that can ignore a very clear rule, if that means keeping their opponents down. If someone has monster hunters in the unit, he confers it to the rest. Since they "shoot as one unit" the other members of the combined fire gain it too. You may not like it, hell you may hate it. But that is how it works. I dont understand how people can throw a fit about this but be ok with gladius strike force, necron decursion for wraiths and +1 overall, or THE ENTIRE ELDAR CODEX.

 Orock wrote:
Wow, there sure are alot of people that can ignore a very clear rule, if that means keeping their opponents down. If someone has monster hunters in the unit, he confers it to the rest. Since they "shoot as one unit" the other members of the combined fire gain it too. You may not like it, hell you may hate it. But that is how it works. I dont understand how people can throw a fit about this but be ok with gladius strike force, necron decursion for wraiths and +1 overall, or THE ENTIRE ELDAR CODEX.

I seriously don't understand the hate about the Gladius Strike Force. The tax units are fairly onerous for the detachment and in return you get a bunch of free transports. Sure, it's pretty cool and all but the vehicles you get for free sure as heck aren't "all that and a bag of chips."

I would say the Decurion detachment is better than that honestly.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
What is a unit? Well it literally says "Shoot as if one unit". If they are shooting "as if one unit" then rules that affect a unit affect anyone participating. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

There is more to it than that. "As if one unit" brings up a whole mess of issues relating to unit coherency, composition, and target selection, but again, quibbiling over this is best taken to the YMDC thread. Spoilers: you won't find me going there anytime soon.

Where in the shooting step after nominating the target are we told to check e.g. the coherency? Hint: Don't write garbage and then ask others to argue it elsewhere.

 Orock wrote:
Wow, there sure are alot of people that can ignore a very clear rule, if that means keeping their opponents down. If someone has monster hunters in the unit, he confers it to the rest. Since they "shoot as one unit" the other members of the combined fire gain it too. You may not like it, hell you may hate it. But that is how it works. I dont understand how people can throw a fit about this but be ok with gladius strike force, necron decursion for wraiths and +1 overall, or THE ENTIRE ELDAR CODEX.

Honestly, it's 90% of tau player attitudes that sets the entire army off for me. You all were so happy to get your cheese, see how cheese it was, try to break that cheese more with things like moving tidewall with anchored stormsurge, that I just wanna see the army get nerfed so bad during competitive play. The options they have chosen are honestly ones we make our tau player use. We don't allow him to do any shenanigans like that

Trasvi wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
I have the digital version, so pages won't be the same, but its 384 of digital.

"During the course of a game, a unit can get broken up and lose unit coherency, usually because it has taken casualties from incoming enemy fire. If this happens, in their next movement phase, the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore unit coherency"

Since "shoot as if one unit" only last for the shooting phase and once that is complete they are no longer a unit, coherency is a non factor.

The next sentence:
"If the unit cannot move in its next turn, or is unable to restore unit coherency in a single turn, then the models must move to restore unit coherency as soon as they have the opportunity, including by running if they have that option"

... so no coordinated firepower with an anchored Stormsurge or you have to run to be in coherency with it?

No because they are no longer one unit. That was the point I was trying to make. Units do not have to be in coherency for the shooting phase. If you are not in coherency in the following movement phase then you have to move to get back into coherency, but they are no longer considered a unit anymore. They are only a unit during the shooting sequence.

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Just kidding, the ITC could not have less of an impact on my LGS.

If it turns out to be too powerful it can always be voted down. Which is why I would rather see it played just to see how powerful it is or not than not see it at all.

 jreilly89 wrote:
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Just kidding, the ITC could not have less of an impact on my LGS.

That's sad to know. Unless your flgs nerfs it harder than itc