Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Murrdox wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Saw a documentary on what would happen if aliens invaded earth.

Let's just say humanity did not do well and even though they won, the conditions were favourable (as in it was a small invasion skirmish not a whole army) and we got lucky using primitive weaponry that supposedly flew under their radar, because we had exhausted all our other options, partly because the aliens had been efficient in taking out the military, communications, medical facilities and finally good production. Even with just a skirmish force we had our butts handed on a silver plate.

Modern humanity stands no chance against a full invasion force.

Out of curiosity what documentary?

Basic logic would tell us that any alien invasion would be destined to win. The technology level, intelligence, resources, and energy required for interstellar travel of any "invasion" force would be SO high. Any alien invasion force capable of REACHING us would inevitably have the ability to conquer us. Saying that aliens would be capable of reaching us but not be able to conquer us would be like saying you have an race car that can reach 250 mph, but it is not capable of parking.

Any failure of the aliens to conquer us relies on the stupidity of the aliens, which again, flies in the face of the logic that they have the vast intelligence required to reach us. You see this type of scenario in fiction quite frequently. Common examples would be War of the Worlds, where the aliens conquer us only to be defeated by their own poor immune systems, or Signs, where the aliens are defeated by water (I still groan at that one... water is only 75% of the Earth's surface... and it's EVERYWHERE in the cosmos so it isn't as if aliens wouldn't KNOW what WATER was). Or Independence Day where they didn't update the virus definitions on the Mother Ship.

So when you take into account the aliens have the resources to GET to us, and they aren't going to fail as a result of poor intelligence, because again, they have the intelligence to GET to us... you're left with very few options for humans to survive.

The only plausible scenario I can think of is the "dying race" scenario. This basically puts an artificial limit on the resources of the aliens. We imagine that there is an alien planet ~100 light years from Earth. The aliens' world is dying due to circumstances beyond their control (sun going supernova, sun sending out super flares, gamma radiation from a neighbor star that went nova, etc). The aliens are capable of interplanetary travel, but they only have the resources for a trip that lasts but so long. This makes Earth the only option they have. The aliens spend ALL their technological resources trying to GET to us, and have very little leftover for any sort of military action. Perhaps they have quite a few resources for military action, but their resources are very finite.

This is the sort of scenario we could possibly survive. We manage to fight off the aliens, and the aliens have no further resources to draw upon. We win by attrition, even in the face of superior technology and intelligence.

This is totally reasonable, but the issue is that the Imperium is advanced, but ineffective, not especially intellectual at all and very prone to make tactical blunders based around dogma. If the Eldar or Tau attacked Earth with a suitable force, we would very much be swept in an effective and fast manner, but the Imperium wouldn't do it this way.

The standardized way to take in a new human world is to beat the planet into submission, and if that doesn't work, start a costly land war with massive armies and warmachines. Thing is, our understanding of tactics, modern technology and our ingenuity allows us to strike at their weak spots (who are bleeding everywhere; I mean, they still deploy Command squads!). In 'Mont'ka', the officer of a large IG platoon is taken out by stealth suits, and the rest of the army is completely at the whims of the Tau Empire.

Of course, the Imperium has much larger reserves, and can keep a war like this grinding for many years, which is their strength in these situations - A war won in 30-40 years is a very quick war on an Imperial scale, but a nightmarish one on an Earthly scale.

So what happens when we beat the first wave of 1 million guardsmen and then the second wave shows up with 10 million guardsmen and 500,000 Leman russ tanks. And then 20 million... the imperium would send wave after wave until they won to prove a point.

I think that Earth could maybe beat One Hormagaunt.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

Of course, the Imperium has much larger reserves, and can keep a war like this grinding for many years, which is their strength in these situations - A war won in 30-40 years is a very quick war on an Imperial scale, but a nightmarish one on an Earthly scale.

30 Years is a blink of an eye as far as the Imperium is concerned.

That's not even enough time for a losing Imperium force to request reinforcements, have that request escalated up the chain of command, lost, refiled, have the refiled command misdirected by the astropaths, refiled again, processed, approved, then spend a decade marshaling conscripts, who then have their orders to help in the battle over-ridden by the Inquisition, who order them somewhere else for the Emperor knows what, the orders refiled again, reprocessed again, approved again, another decade marshaling conscripts, then the conscripts get lost in a Warp Storm and emerge at Earth 500 years later.

When the Imperium reinforcements arrive they discover the previous Imperium invasion fleet failed, but it doesn't matter because in the power vacuum after the war someone started a nuclear war and we all killed ourselves anyways and there isn't a war going on anymore.

Then the Tyranids show up for no reason, eat everyone, and a commander back at command gets executed for losing two invasion forces over the past 500 years that nobody has heard back from.

Martel732 wrote:
This isn't fair, because Earth forces are based off real physics, not GW physics. So I say Earth wins by default by not being impossible.

I've long since quite trying to assign a modern equivalent to anything in the GW universe.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Murrdox I believe it was called Alien Attack or When Aliens Attack. Something to that effect. I do know it was on the national geographic channel.

Found it quite interesting myself, but then I'm a sucker for 'xenos'.

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Dude the Imperium is so scared of computers a Ti-82 would be a heretical device because its not built into a servitor and presided over by a tech priest. The most advanced targeting system 'might' be laser sights but their missiles can't even turn and track, and their guns still use iron sights. While we can destroy targets at ridiculous distances.

The short version of why we have a chance in an alien invasion, boils down to a Vietnam effect, where yeah the alien force has better tech, weapons and equipment. But knowledge of the terrain and the fact a sharp wooden stick will kill as good as a bullet makes for a bad day for the invaders.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
On the ground, not a chance in hell against anything. Where modern day military would excel is an air war. F-22's would swat every flying brick the Imperium has. Assuming that is we aren't factoring in the space ships which then...yeah we still don't have a chance. On the individual scale a modern US Marine would be stated like BS 5 WS 4 S 3 T 3 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 9 which is elite but the base M-16 to me would be 36" Assault 3, Str 2 Ap- With bigger guns getting better stats.

The Abrams is probably equivalent to a Predator with an autocannon and fast rule.

BS5 and WS4?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Seeing as how their ship would probably pound us form space at some point, I think we would lose in the end.

The Abrams can kill other (inferior) tanks after shooting through 30 meters of sand dune. As can the Challenger and Leopard II. Those two can snorkel as well.

As I said, doctrine-wise, 40K is a fething mess. The whole point of advanced warfare is to give your opponent no chance to do anything and to kill from as far away as possible.

Take away the Imperium's magic alloys (adamantium doesn't exist, nor likely is even possible, as there is a limit to chemical bond strengths and young's moduli) and their equipment becomes a joke.

 ServiceGames wrote:
The standard space marine weapon (bolter) holds a .75 caliber (meaning the projectile is 3/4" in diameter) explosive round with solid rocket propellant so that the projectile can be much larger... and that's the smallest weapon in the Space Marine armory. Current earth wouldn't stand a chance .

SG

until you apply real world mechanics and you realize that such a weapon is grossly impractical, Space Marines appear to carry zero reloads and have basically no method of resupply, and small arms, no matter how impressive, are basically the smallest contributor to casualties in conventional warfare, and it's crew served weaponry like artillery, autocannons, aircraft fired/dropped weapons, etc that compose the overwhelmingly vast majority of casualties. Not to mention that modern infantry units carry some very impressive weapons indeed with grenade launchers, RPG's, etc spread extremely liberally throughout.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

Except it's not wrong. I can't recall anything in the 40k universe, either in game or in fluff, having anything near the range, hit rate, first-hit kill rate, etc (and especially while mobile) of a modern MBT. You don't read about Thunderbolts engaging enemy aircraft from beyond visual range upon detection by AWACs feeding them engagement data, they dogfight like WW2 aircraft. IG artillery is described almost entirely in WW1 & WW2 terms, with nothing near the accuracy & reaction speed of modern artillery, no radar-guided counter-battery fire sending shells landing within a couple meters of the targeted location just a couple minutes after incoming detection, etc. 40k doesn't have anything like these systems. Against any modern NATO force, they often function *better* at night than during the day (at least in regards to targeting) and it'd be like literally every unit running around with a Blacksun system. I also can't think of anything resembling GPS guided cruise missiles, artillery shells, and aircraft delivered munitions.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Dude the Imperium is so scared of computers a Ti-82 would be a heretical device because its not built into a servitor and presided over by a tech priest. The most advanced targeting system 'might' be laser sights but their missiles can't even turn and track, and their guns still use iron sights. While we can destroy targets at ridiculous distances.

The short version of why we have a chance in an alien invasion, boils down to a Vietnam effect, where yeah the alien force has better tech, weapons and equipment. But knowledge of the terrain and the fact a sharp wooden stick will kill as good as a bullet makes for a bad day for the invaders.

I assume you have never heard of an auspex system, Preysense goggles, a spoor targeter, or noticed that bolt rounds change direction in-flight?

The Tau conquered Agrellan in a day. They would knock over Earth in 10 minutes. They have similar and even more refined tactics than our modern military as well as even more advanced stuff open to them due to being space faring and having Riptides. You know the scene in War of the Worlds where they're trying to kill the tripods on the hill? 100x worse than that.

This post has two different answers depending on what set of rules were using. Are we using the Rule of Cool universe rules that 40k runs on or the real world physics. 40k logic/rule of cool, we lost before we started, marines by themselves take worlds, Imperial guard have more resources than we could possibly try to match, pyskers would cause massive moral problems for our forces, and if we put up enough of a fight, they can bomb us from orbit till we give up or die.

Real world we win on the ground and then die from being bombed to death from orbit. Barring some hidden government weapon, we in 2015 have no answer to a space craft that has weapons.

The Tau can literally control the weather if need be and just watch us get wiped out by an endless storm and come down later. That would be hilarious.

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau conquered Agrellan in a day. They would knock over Earth in 10 minutes. They have similar and even more refined tactics than our modern military as well as even more advanced stuff open to them due to being space faring and having Riptides.

A Riptide would be a monstrously incapable real military unit. It's huge, and unable to hide. On a modern battlefield, that usually means its dead in the first 15 seconds of shooting. If something can be seen, it can be hit. If it can be hit, it can be killed.

It's also ludicrously over-complex, setting aside the game mechanic differences between tanks and MC's, you can fit the same weapons systems on a tank, with vastly less complexity and correspondingly vastly smaller logistics & support mechanisms and much more reliable platforms, with similar or better mobility unless you're trying to jet up the sides of cliffs or something.

Not to mention the hilarious number of very obvious weak points on a riptide. Tiny, relatively weak looking ankles which, if compromised, would cripple the suit, easily targeted sensors/cameras, gigantic obvious (and obviously unarmored) thruster intakes, etc. One guy with an RPG putting a shot through an ankle and the thing's toast

You know the scene in War of the Worlds where they're trying to kill the tripods on the hill? 100x worse than that.

And yet...look what happened in War of the Worlds...

 Psienesis wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Dude the Imperium is so scared of computers a Ti-82 would be a heretical device because its not built into a servitor and presided over by a tech priest. The most advanced targeting system 'might' be laser sights but their missiles can't even turn and track, and their guns still use iron sights. While we can destroy targets at ridiculous distances.

The short version of why we have a chance in an alien invasion, boils down to a Vietnam effect, where yeah the alien force has better tech, weapons and equipment. But knowledge of the terrain and the fact a sharp wooden stick will kill as good as a bullet makes for a bad day for the invaders.

I assume you have never heard of an auspex system, Preysense goggles, a spoor targeter, or noticed that bolt rounds change direction in-flight?

Wait...when did we get guided bolter rounds...?

 Psienesis wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Dude the Imperium is so scared of computers a Ti-82 would be a heretical device because its not built into a servitor and presided over by a tech priest. The most advanced targeting system 'might' be laser sights but their missiles can't even turn and track, and their guns still use iron sights. While we can destroy targets at ridiculous distances.

The short version of why we have a chance in an alien invasion, boils down to a Vietnam effect, where yeah the alien force has better tech, weapons and equipment. But knowledge of the terrain and the fact a sharp wooden stick will kill as good as a bullet makes for a bad day for the invaders.

I assume you have never heard of an auspex system, Preysense goggles, a spoor targeter, or noticed that bolt rounds change direction in-flight?

bolt rounds don't change direction, they can't they are direct fire mini rockets. And we have watches and cellphones for civilian use with more computing power then a freakin' auspex, which is just a rehashed movement sensor from Aliens.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau conquered Agrellan in a day. They would knock over Earth in 10 minutes. They have similar and even more refined tactics than our modern military as well as even more advanced stuff open to them due to being space faring and having Riptides.

A Riptide would be a monstrously incapable real military unit. It's huge, and unable to hide. On a modern battlefield, that usually means its dead in the first 15 seconds of shooting. If something can be seen, it can be hit. If it can be hit, it can be killed.

It's also ludicrously over-complex, setting aside the game mechanic differences between tanks and MC's, you can fit the same weapons systems on a tank, with vastly less complexity and correspondingly vastly smaller logistics & support mechanisms and much more reliable platforms, with similar or better mobility unless you're trying to jet up the sides of cliffs or something.

Not to mention the hilarious number of very obvious weak points on a riptide. Tiny, relatively weak looking ankles which, if compromised, would cripple the suit, easily targeted sensors/cameras, gigantic obvious (and obviously unarmored) thruster intakes, etc.

You know the scene in War of the Worlds where they're trying to kill the tripods on the hill? 100x worse than that.

And yet...look what happened in War of the Worlds...

 Psienesis wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Problem is all that targeting and automated systems ARE antiquated by our modern day standards.

100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

I don't think the Imperium is using anything, myself.

Dude the Imperium is so scared of computers a Ti-82 would be a heretical device because its not built into a servitor and presided over by a tech priest. The most advanced targeting system 'might' be laser sights but their missiles can't even turn and track, and their guns still use iron sights. While we can destroy targets at ridiculous distances.

The short version of why we have a chance in an alien invasion, boils down to a Vietnam effect, where yeah the alien force has better tech, weapons and equipment. But knowledge of the terrain and the fact a sharp wooden stick will kill as good as a bullet makes for a bad day for the invaders.

I assume you have never heard of an auspex system, Preysense goggles, a spoor targeter, or noticed that bolt rounds change direction in-flight?

Wait...when did we get guided bolter rounds...?

The soldier doesn't get to choose his opponents, they have to adapt and deal with them. If tomorrow Russia or insert x nation developed technology to neutralize nukes (all nukess) by building a ridiculously big walking robot that is 100% functional. Then a second giant class of giant walking robot that was able to withstand thousands of rounds of tank fire and is incredibly easy to manufacture and pilot you don't say that's bs. You say that's bs, and then you ask how they did it and how you get your own on the battlefield as fast as possible before you get your gak kicked in. They might have found something that does make that more practical than a tank. How are you to know? Now try and imagine a species so advanced they can build a gigantic space defense platform (city in space) in a week. We can't even build a new space shuttle successor in a decade of trying.

Life isn't fair. If the Tau showed up and all their technology worked as we see in the 40k universe (even their railgun tanks shooting around the curvature of thew earth). Would you say that's impossible and demand a redo? Or do your best to figure out how to beat them? I know what I would do. The science would have to catch up to the opponent and hopefully fast enough that we don't get wiped out.

[quoe=Vaktathi 671947 8298173 2639c6bd2a42e714227b06646829d6ea.jpg]

 ServiceGames wrote:


100% wrong. There is literally nothing we have today that is more advanced than what the Imperium is using. It might seem clunky, but its definitely more advanced.

Except it's not wrong. I can't recall anything in the 40k universe, either in game or in fluff, having anything near the range, hit rate, first-hit kill rate, etc (and especially while mobile) of a modern MBT. You don't read about Thunderbolts engaging enemy aircraft from beyond visual range upon detection by AWACs feeding them engagement data, they dogfight like WW2 aircraft. IG artillery is described almost entirely in WW1 & WW2 terms, with nothing near the accuracy & reaction speed of modern artillery, no radar-guided counter-battery fire sending shells landing within a couple meters of the targeted location just a couple minutes after incoming detection, etc. 40k doesn't have anything like these systems. Against any modern NATO force, they often function *better* at night than during the day (at least in regards to targeting) and it'd be like literally every unit running around with a Blacksun system. I also can't think of anything resembling GPS guided cruise missiles, artillery shells, and aircraft delivered munitions.

There have been recorded engagements of Tau rail gun fire deflecting off Leman Russ armor. it's not frequent but it can happen. Or the rare shot that doesn't completely destroy a tank. Our railguns are depicted as about as powerful as the prototype navy railgun if not stronger. That thing is insanely powerful there is no naval ship, base, unit, or thing that can withstand a railgun shot that we know of and this is a real life weapon. We have to assume the Leman Russ armor is extremely advanced and the majority of the shots from any modern MBT would deflect 99.9999% of the time from all angles except the rear. Even then the MBT is going to have to get dangerously close to have a chance at its gun penetrating rear armor and that's for a rear armor shot. The Leman Rus sbattle cannon is short ranged, but if it connects it would essentially be an auto kill with how powerful it is relative to the poor armoring of the MBT's compared to 40k sstuff. The MBT does have speed and range on the Leman Russ though, but with little ability to damage the tank reliably it would be a losing battle.

 Gamgee wrote:

The soldier doesn't get to choose his opponents, they have to adapt and deal with them. If tomorrow Russia or insert x nation developed technology to neutralize nukes (all nukess) by building a ridiculously big walking robot that is 100% functional. Then a second giant class of giant walking robot that was able to withstand thousands of rounds of tank fire and is incredibly easy to manufacture and pilot you don't say that's bs. You say that's bs, and then you ask how they did it and how you get your own on the battlefield as fast as possible before you get your gak kicked in. They might have found something that does make that more practical than a tank. How are you to know? Now try and imagine a species so advanced they can build a gigantic space defense platform (city in space) in a week. We can't even build a new space shuttle successor in a decade of trying.

...since when can Riptides neutralize nuclear weapons and withstand thousands of tank rounds? What are we talking about here...? Even Imperial titans can fall to WW2 era IG artillery, and they're orders of magnitude more resilient than a Riptide.

Ultimately, when we're talking about walkers compared to a tank, there's nothing that's going to make that so. The giant suit just fundamentally is a vastly more complex machine. Actuating legs, toes, etc, balancing all of that, humanoid joints, etc are all vastly more complex than something like even say a Hammerhead, wayyyyyyyyyyy more so. They're designed to look cool, but if we're actually going to bring the real world into this, then they fall apart.

This isn't unique to the Tau. Just about everything in 40k falls apart. The Space Marines absolutely stop functioning once you start trying to apply any sort of reality to them. No Imperial starship could work when they describe things like turrets turned, aimed, and loaded by chain-gangs of slave-serds. Etc ad nauseum.


Yes, we can get into all the fantastical stuff races can build in space, doesn't mean the units we're actually talking about here would actually be functional in any sort of realistic warfare. Most 40k units are absolutely absurdly designed for real world warfare, they're designed to look cool, and, as I've said before, it's a Fantasy universe with a Scifi skin.

Life isn't fair. If the Tau showed up and all their technology worked as we see in the 40k universe (even their railgun tanks shooting around the curvature of thew earth).

Where are you pulling this from? I don't recall ever reading anything like that in a Tau codex.

Would you say that's impossible and demand a redo? Or do your best to figure out how to beat them? I know what I would do. The science would have to catch up to the opponent and hopefully fast enough that we don't get wiped out.

We're talking about hte same empire that's lost battles to Orks...a race that relies on incredibly primitive bullet throwing weapons and the Mk 1 Mod 0 "Choppa" for most of their killing?

 Gamgee wrote:
There have been recorded engagements of Tau rail gun fire deflecting off Leman Russ armor. it's not frequent but it can happen. Or the rare shot that doesn't completely destroy a tank. Our railguns are depicted as about as powerful as the prototype navy railgun if not stronger. That thing is insanely powerful there is no naval ship, base, unit, or thing that can withstand a railgun shot that we know of and this is a real life weapon. We have to assume the Leman Russ armor is extremely advanced and the majority of the shots from any modern MBT would deflect 99.9999% of the time from all angles except the rear. Even then the MBT is going to have to get dangerously close to have a chance at its gun penetrating rear armor and that's for a rear armor shot.

We have no idea how much Leman Russ armor deflects railguns, any sort of estimation you're using has no data to back it up.

However, we do have actual numbers for Leman Russ tank armor thickness (which is thinner than many WW2 tanks in many instances) and we can clearly so, both from the model itself and actual cutaways from FW books, that it's not even a functional tank, whenever you see someone hanging out the top hatch of a Leman Russ? Their legs would literally be inside the breach of the gun. And if *that* is a tank that can compete with the Hammerhead and railguns on *any* level (and match it for tank killing capability with a Vanquisher cannon), then it's hard to see the Hammerhead being all that substantial.

silent_death wrote:


Now Im not so big im imperial fluff, but I do know xeno fluff. The Tau can take out a tank with their artillery, from a moon. The eldar can be on the other side of a solar system and be able to know information about ground forces on a planet.

Generally only with the aid of Psykers.

(Not to mention their fighters being able to reach speeds that human bosy can't handle and are able to out maneuver our jets again at such a high g-force that a human would pass out. )

Sure, but that's talking about a dogfight. If they get half a dozen missiles thrown at them from beyond the horizon however, they're probably in trouble. That's the sort of capability 40k air forces, no matter what race, are never described as having.

Tau can use stealth suits to walk up and kill a commander without anyone noticing them.

So have Catachans though

An eldar warp spider squad can do close to the same just popping in and out so fast that we might be able to get a couple shots off before dying.

With an extremely close ranged weapon at great risk to themselves since they have to travel through the warp. If they're seen a few hundred meters away before they realize they're being acquired as targets (e.g. a tank in a prepared position or something) they're probably toast.

[qutoe] Bunkers won't have hope if it gets shot at by a melta gun

This isn't including the Tyranids, who would adapt to every thing we throw at them and eventually be wiped out due to attrition

I'm assuming your young or not an English speaker. Disengaging from debate.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm assuming your young or not an English speaker. Disengaging from debate.

If you just want to engage in head-canon, feel free, but don't just come in, make fantastical claims, and insult my ability to engage in conversation in my native language when you get called out.

See those fins right behind the bolter round itself? That's part of the gyrojet component. The war-spirit of the bolter, linked through the targeting auspex in the Marine's helmet, permits the gyrojet to vary its thrust through those fins, making corrections in-flight between the muzzle of the boltgun and the target.

Will it make a 90 degree turn? No. However, an in-flight correction of even .05 degrees is significant over the range of the weapon.

Except it's not wrong. I can't recall anything in the 40k universe, either in game or in fluff, having anything near the range, hit rate, first-hit kill rate, etc (and especially while mobile) of a modern MBT

Tachyon Arrow. Range: Infinite. S10 AP1 Assault1

Any ship-borne weapon of any sort. Nova Cannon. Vulcan Mega-bolter. Vindicare Assassin...

I've never heard of this capability for bolters before, and it's certainly not in any normal description of them. I'm not even really seeing any fins on there, I see some notches, but what I'm more worried about is why the spent casing looks like it had a catastrophic failure when firing...

It'd be hard to make that practicable, it'd almost certainly be more effective to just be firing more rounds and walk the stream of fire onto the target for a relatively small adjustment, and 0.05 degrees is a very tiny course change indeed, especially at the speed a projectile is going at, the time it would have to change any sort of direction would be almost nonexistent at infantry engagement distances.

Do you have some sort of codex piece that mentions that sort of capability?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Boltgun#fn_14a

Check out the Godwyn-pattern Bolter for a list of some of its technological capabilities, including integrated linkage with the targeting reticule in the Marine's helmet. The Ultra-pattern boltgun also possesses advanced targeting system.

See also: M40 Targeting System

See also: Seeker Rounds, Chaplain Boreas of the Dark Angels

i realise this is a gripping topic, but let's all remember to keep our passions down and be polite to each other!