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I've recently start Grey Knights, but upon going through the codex and comparing it to other armies (helped by my ever loving friend who tells my of his cheese- or something close enough to cheese for my army- every bus journey) I've found that, while all units are good and you should consider them all, none stand out. While GK have very good army saves, everyone seems to have AP1-2 weapons coming out of their asses, and that if my opponent ever finds out I am bringing a stormraven, it will die first turn to a barrage of skyfire. Kaldor Draigo could be argued to be but as he can do nothing against vehicles and costs more than a Land Raider, I'd say he is only good against infantry and MCs and then only in close combat, an area where the GK aren't exactly lacking. This would all be fine, but is seems every other army has at least one calling card, even if it is some tactical doctrine like thing that grants +3 BS and WS (looking at you Ad Mech.
So is there any big unit/tactic of doom for GK that I've missed, or do I just have to work really hard and think really tactically for every win? (which, admittedly, does make the victories more satisfying but it would still be nice to have something I can fall back on)

They aren't cheese. I don't know what happened in 5th, but in 6th they really weren't that amazing.

It's complaining to complain, really.

The things that makes GK shine are dominating the Psychic phase, functional TDA, and DreadKnights. If that's the flavor of cheese you are interested in, I can assure you it goes great with most whines.

Joking asside, GKs as a stand alone army are quite playable and can be quite fun to play. Just be aware that the game you are playing is one of makng less mistakes than your opponent. GKs have very little room for errors. As an allied group, GKs are awesome buffers, squad movers, and Psyker support.

SJ

So is there any big unit/tactic of doom for GK that I've missed, or do I just have to work really hard and think really tactically for every win? (which, admittedly, does make the victories more satisfying but it would still be nice to have something I can fall back on)

Draigo with centurions and librarians or tigurius jumping around with gate. And NDK spam. Can't think of anything else. And even those two are just good.

I play pure GK at 1500 points with Draigo, Librarian, GKT, Interceptors, and NDK, setup to win Maelstrom. Nothing beats the look on your opponents face when you Gate out of combat and drop a D-plate on unit you just left behind.

SJ

See if you can get Iron Arm on one of your squads
Watch your opponent get terrified when a T7 unit teleports around the board
*Brotherhood of Psykers counts as a single psyker for all intents and purposes, meaning a power that says "Targets the Psyker" affects the whole unit*

It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

 master of ordinance wrote:
It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

How so?

SJ

commander dante wrote:
See if you can get Iron Arm on one of your squads
Watch your opponent get terrified when a T7 unit teleports around the board
*Brotherhood of Psykers counts as a single psyker for all intents and purposes, meaning a power that says "Targets the Psyker" affects the whole unit*

You can't do this. GK units don't generate powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 master of ordinance wrote:
It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

If that's your idea of cheese, you've been living under a rock. SMs do it far better, for one.

@jeffersonian000 I'd love to see one of your list builds. I'm getting roughly 2k points worth of GK for Christmas. I had played a game with proxy's against daemons and was absolutely destroyed and I'm sure I made more than my fair share of errors.

Yay

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

How so?

SJ

My Guard..... Where wiped in turn three.

jeffersonian000 wrote:The things that makes GK shine are dominating the Psychic phase, functional TDA, and DreadKnights. If that's the flavor of cheese you are interested in, I can assure you it goes great with most whines.

Joking asside, GKs as a stand alone army are quite playable and can be quite fun to play. Just be aware that the game you are playing is one of makng less mistakes than your opponent. GKs have very little room for errors. As an allied group, GKs are awesome buffers, squad movers, and Psyker support.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:I play pure GK at 1500 points with Draigo, Librarian, GKT, Interceptors, and NDK, setup to win Maelstrom. Nothing beats the look on your opponents face when you Gate out of combat and drop a D-plate on unit you just left behind.

SJ

Thx for reply, and yes that sounds fine exactly like my kind of cheese. I was just scared of what my friend was feeding me and panicked a bit (obviously for no reason), and thx for the rough army list you posted jeffersonian000, I'll probably use that that

 master of ordinance wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

How so?

SJ

My Guard..... Where wiped in turn three.

Your point being what?

As an ork player, I basically cannot fight grey knights if they bring shunting dreadknights with torrent flamers and psycannons.

Dreadknights are effectively unkillable by anything in the entire ork codex. At the very least, they bring down twice their points cost before going down.

Apart from that, GK aren't too cheesy - they're good, but not many of them. But I just can't fight dreadknights, as many times as I've tried.

to be fair orks are probably the worst codex in the game right now

Agreed. They're powerful but not unbeatable.
Your biggest tricks are the ability to teleport in terminator armour en masse on turn 1, many (if not devastating) psychic psykers providing plenty of warp charge for the ones who are competent, and the dreadknight, which sits alongside the riptide as the two models which started everyone complaining about monstrous creatures.

A typical 1500pt list is a Nemesis Strike Force:

PML3 Librarian w/ Liber Daemonica, Staff, Combi-Plasma, Warlord, rolling GK trait, rolling Sanctic

5man GKT w/ 2 hammers, 2 pairs of Falchions, a Halberd, and a Psycannon.

6man Interceptors w/ 1 hammers, 4 Falchions, Incinerator, Homer, Melta Bombs

6man Interceptors w/ 1 hammers, 4 Falchions, Incinerator, Homer, Melta Bombs

NDK w/ PT, Psycannon, Incinerator, Sword

NDK w/ PT, Psycannon, Psilencer, Hammer

Kaldor Draigo

For this list, one unit gets reserved if at all, most times I start everything on the table. Draigo has Gate automatically, whike the Libby fishes for Vortex, Sanctuary, and Cleansing Flame from the 5-6 powers he can get out if the 7 in Sanctic. The goal is to either go all in with a Shunt/Gate Alpha strike, or use Jump and Gate to capture objectives while saving Shunt for emergencies.

A common list varient for me is to drop sone or all Interceptors for more GKT.

At 1850, I drop some bling and add a Knight Errant, or a squad of Paladins.

If you noticed no AA, its because I ignore it by move out of potential firing arcs whike taking occasional potshots in passing with my Psycannons. I find Flyers pretty useless against a hyper mobile army, especially on a cluttered table.

SJ

I've not thought of GK being cheese at all. Powerful yes, but not even close to SM Alpha Strike power.

GK are also a tricky army to play, your average weapon range is 24", very little in the way of ranged AV/AMC, and bar the Stormraven, no AA.

Very rewarding when played well, very flexible in the right hands, but GK are no longer the army you just pick up and immediately start tabling people.

If you want that, Tau, Eldar and Necrons are that-a-way

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
It depends. DS'ing everything in turn 1 because of your formation is considered s dick move though.

How so?

SJ

My Guard..... Where wiped in turn three.

Your point being what?

turn one deep strike is very unfun move for IG players. something they can do little to nothing about using their codex. Making them play vs something like a turn 1 alfa strike army, could be seen as a dick move by some.

No one wants to footslog across a board against a bunch of shooting models. IG needs to abuse the fact that 2+ armor is not all that anymore.

So, what I get from you is that faster army push you out of your comfort zone, so you call any trying to not die to your gunline a dick for trying to close thd gap early. Seems like the wrong person is the "dick".

SJ

The_Grey_Knight wrote:
Kaldor Draigo could be argued to be but as he can do nothing against vehicles

Isn't Draigo S7 even before Hammerhand?

Draigo is total cheese. He's way undercosted. He's just not as bad as the eldar.

Martel732 wrote:
Draigo is total cheese. He's way undercosted. He's just not as bad as the eldar.

Agreed.

Though, I think the Battle Brothers rules are also to blame.

It's the difference between Draigo teleporting/protecting a unit of Paladins or Terminators, and Draigo teleporting/protecting a unit of Grav Centurions.

No he's super cheese even in a mono gk list. He's just not ultra cheese like with grav cents. I always love to see draigo die.

He isn't cheese. He's almost 250 points and has no mobility outside Gate, which would mean they don't get to assault just yet.

And he's a Lord of War choice.

He costs the same as a Land Raider Redeemer (without upgrades). How is that under priced?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
He costs the same as a Land Raider Redeemer (without upgrades). How is that under priced?

SJ

Because unlike a LR, he grants an absurd amount of utility.