Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A unit counts a has shot when said unit went through the shooting attack seqcuence. thats all

 _ghost_ wrote:
A unit counts a has shot when said unit went through the shooting attack seqcuence. thats all

And you have rules to support this stance I assume or is this your HYWPI in which case please label it as such.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
A unit counts a has shot when said unit went through the shooting attack seqcuence. thats all

And you have rules to support this stance I assume or is this your HYWPI in which case please label it as such.

"The Shooting Phase
...Once you have completed steps 1 to 7 for each unit in your army that you wish to make a shooting attack, carry on to the Assault phase."
(and no you do not need to carry out each step as detailed in said steps)

Like stated before in this thread you resolve each phase and by that it is resolved. If you are looking for a rule that states e.g. "now your unit counts as being ultimately done with the shooting phase" you will not find one because it does not exist and is not needed. If you think that it should exist then i suggest you continue posting it as HYWPI where it belongs.

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
A unit counts a has shot when said unit went through the shooting attack seqcuence. thats all

And you have rules to support this stance I assume or is this your HYWPI in which case please label it as such.

"The Shooting Phase
...Once you have completed steps 1 to 7 for each unit in your army that you wish to make a shooting attack, carry on to the Assault phase."
(and no you do not need to carry out each step as detailed in said steps)

Like stated before in this thread you resolve each phase and by that it is resolved. If you are looking for a rule that states e.g. "now your unit counts as being ultimately done with the shooting phase" you will not find one because it does not exist and is not needed. If you think that it should exist then i suggest you continue posting it as HYWPI where it belongs.

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Flingitnow,
pardon me, but why does it matter|? for the buffmander? if it is by itself (monat) then it cannot contribute to a Coordinated Firepower, but give it a Gun or Marker Drone (or you know, put it in a unit) and it is all good.
Frankly, there is a simple solution - break up the 3 signature systems across the 3 crisis teams that the Hunter Cadre has to take anyway - and don't give the shas'vres carrying them any weapons considering that there is plenty of support systems that they can take instead.

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works. If you want it to count as having shot without shooting you need to prove it. Permissive ruleset and all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carldooley wrote:
Flingitnow,
pardon me, but why does it matter|? for the buffmander? if it is by itself (monat) then it cannot contribute to a Coordinated Firepower, but give it a Gun or Marker Drone (or you know, put it in a unit) and it is all good.
Frankly, there is a simple solution - break up the 3 signature systems across the 3 crisis teams that the Hunter Cadre has to take anyway - and don't give the shas'vres carrying them any weapons considering that there is plenty of support systems that they can take instead.

Who's said anything about the buffmander? What is his relevance? This is about if a unit that hasn't shot at the target unit as is required by CF can count toward the 3 unit tally for +1bs. Some people are claiming that only targeting the unit is enough and you don't have to shoot the unit like the rules say. They refuse to support their stance with any rules though...

 FlingitNow wrote:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works

Hey, that's great! Let's try math next, ok? If three units combine their shooting, according to CF rule how many units make a shooting attack?

Next question is for you to produce a rule that forces everyone to shoot. I can provide a rule saying exactly the opposite.

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works

Hey, that's great! Let's try math next, ok? If three units combine their shooting, according to CF rule how many units make a shooting attack?

Next question is for you to produce a rule that forces everyone to shoot. I can provide a rule saying exactly the opposite.

Coordinated Firepower requires that each individual unit must shoot to if they are part of the CF attack.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works. If you want it to count as having shot without shooting you need to prove it. Permissive ruleset and all...

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count?

I'll put a snippet from the SELECT A WEAPON rule here, you can peruse it yourself if you want to read the whole thing:
"[...A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. This must be declared before rolling To Hit..."

 FlingitNow wrote:

...They refuse to support their stance with any rules though...

Numerous people in this thread have supported their view with rules, you might have overlooked that though. And as for the wording of shooting, having shot or whatever you like to call it, that is not a rule in 40k but something you assume. You have the Shooting Phase and the Shooting Sequence, when that is resolved any involved unit is done with its shooting phase.

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count? 

I'll put a snippet from the SELECT A WEAPON rule here, you can peruse it yourself if you want to read the whole thing: 
"[...A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. This must be declared before rolling To Hit..." 

No if the unit hasn't shot any shots then it hasn't shot. Again you say that is not how the rules work but again refuse to support that with any rules. You have maintained this stance (as have several others) and not once supported it with any rules. Are you going to support that stance? Are you going to explain why you believe that merely targeting is the same as shooting?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works

Hey, that's great! Let's try math next, ok? If three units combine their shooting, according to CF rule how many units make a shooting attack?

Next question is for you to produce a rule that forces everyone to shoot. I can provide a rule saying exactly the opposite.

Coordinated Firepower requires that each individual unit must shoot to if they are part of the CF attack.

The question was "how many". Can you please answer this? You know you are incorrect when you refuse to answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works. If you want it to count as having shot without shooting you need to prove it. Permissive ruleset and all...

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count?

These guys try to invalidate how e.g. Warp Spiders or Ghostkeels trigger their powers. Pretty funny, since there is no rules support other than insisting very hard.

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works

Hey, that's great! Let's try math next, ok? If three units combine their shooting, according to CF rule how many units make a shooting attack?

Next question is for you to produce a rule that forces everyone to shoot. I can provide a rule saying exactly the opposite.

Coordinated Firepower requires that each individual unit must shoot to if they are part of the CF attack.

The question was "how many". Can you please answer this? You know you are incorrect when you refuse to answer.

Sorry the answer to your question is 3 and all 3 units MUST fire shots at the target unit or you are breaking the CF rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

These guys try to invalidate how e.g. Warp Spiders or Ghostkeels trigger their powers. Pretty funny, since there is no rules support other than insisting very hard. 

Please explain what you mean?

 FlingitNow wrote:

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count? 

I'll put a snippet from the SELECT A WEAPON rule here, you can peruse it yourself if you want to read the whole thing: 
"[...A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. This must be declared before rolling To Hit..." 

No if the unit hasn't shot any shots then it hasn't shot. Again you say that is not how the rules work but again refuse to support that with any rules. You have maintained this stance (as have several others) and not once supported it with any rules. Are you going to support that stance? Are you going to explain why you believe that merely targeting is the same as shooting?

Because it is all handled in the Shooting phase, it doesn't matter if i select a weapon or fire (or choose not to as shown above), this is RAW in the BRB. The only requirement for resolving the shooting phase is LOS.
When it says somewhere in a rule that a unit must shoot that means, RAW, you have to resolve a shooting phase, there is nothing else. The support for this is in the BRB, as quoted by quite a few in this thread, you can choose to ignore all that, which you seem to have done so far, but the fact remains, rules support have been put forth by many, you have put forth nothing sofar,

Because it is all handled in the Shooting phase, it doesn't matter if i target something or select a weapon or fire (or choose not to as shown above), this is RAW in the BRB. The only requirement for resolving the shooting phase is LOS. 
When it says somewhere in a rule that a unit must shoot that means,RAW, you have to resolve a shooting phase, there is nothing else. The support for this is in the BRB, as quoted by quite a few in this thread, you can choose to ignore all that, which you seem to have done so far, but the fact remains, rules support have been put forth by many, you have put forth nothing sofar, 

So you make the claim underlined AGAIN this time saying it is supported by RaW. Please support it with the RaW that states that. Page and paragraph or was that a lie?

The rule tells us the unit must shoot. We know that firing shots is part of the shooting phase, thus by normal English a unit having shot is a unit that has fired one or more shots. Unless you have another definition like you claim you have but have refused to support on each occasion.

 FlingitNow wrote:

So you make the claim underlined AGAIN this time saying it is supported by RaW. Please support it with the RaW that states that. Page and paragraph or was that a lie?

Look up THE SHOOTING PHASE in the BRB, if you have the book that is.
You still confuse "must shoot" with firing a shot from a weapon?

 FlingitNow wrote:

The rule tells us the unit must shoot. We know that firing shots is part of the shooting phase, thus by normal English a unit having shot is a unit that has fired one or more shots. Unless you have another definition like you claim you have but have refused to support on each occasion.

The underlined sentenced is entirely assumption on your part. The definition of shooting in 40k is made clear in the Shooting Phase rules.

 FlingitNow wrote:

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count? 

I'll put a snippet from the SELECT A WEAPON rule here, you can peruse it yourself if you want to read the whole thing: 
"[...A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. This must be declared before rolling To Hit..." 

No if the unit hasn't shot any shots then it hasn't shot. Again you say that is not how the rules work but again refuse to support that with any rules. You have maintained this stance (as have several others) and not once supported it with any rules. Are you going to support that stance? Are you going to explain why you believe that merely targeting is the same as shooting?

The CF rule only requires that a unit shoots and does not require that at least one model fires a shot in each unit. Units don't fire any shots, models do. You are literally making up a requirement that a unit only shoots if a model fires a shot.

A unit shoots by attempting a shooting attack in the shooting phase and following the shooting sequence, during which all, some, or none of the models in the unit fire a shot. The only requirement that a unit must make in order to shoot and complete the shooting sequence is that the unit must be in line of sight with the target unit. This is how the rules work - simply read and apply the shooting sequence to the units that participate legally in the shooting process. A unit shoots when it goes through the shooting process in the shooting sequence.

If anyone feels otherwise, the burden of proof is on them to find a rule that states that a unit counts as shooting only if at least one model in the unit fires a shot in the shooting sequence. You don't get to appeal to English only. You must find support in the rules themselves. Shooting in game terms is going through the shooting process in the shooting sequence during the shooting phase. A unit shoots by participating in the shooting sequence. As long as a unit can legally participate in the shooting sequence it can fulfill the CF requirement that the unit shoots.

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So you make the claim underlined AGAIN this time saying it is supported by RaW. Please support it with the RaW that states that. Page and paragraph or was that a lie?

Look up THE SHOOTING PHASE in the BRB, if you have the book that is.
You still confuse "must shoot" with firing a shot from a weapon?

 FlingitNow wrote:

The rule tells us the unit must shoot. We know that firing shots is part of the shooting phase, thus by normal English a unit having shot is a unit that has fired one or more shots. Unless you have another definition like you claim you have but have refused to support on each occasion.

The underlined sentenced is entirely assumption on your part. The definition of shooting in 40k is made clear in the Shooting Phase rules.

So what page and paragraph of the shoot phase exactly says that merely targeting a unit counts as shooting it? Yes the underlined is how English works so if it is incorrect if the rules have a different definition of the verb shoot you must provide it or we default to English. So page and paragraph. Or mark your post clearly as HYWPI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

That might be how English works but it is not how the 40k rules for the shooting phase works. You need to follow the Shooting phase sequence. Tell me, e.g. i have a few units nominated for shooting, i select a target, and i am about to select a weapon, but i now choose not fire anything and resolve my shooting phase for each unit, which is perfectly fine RAW. Now do my units count as having shot (as you phrase it) and if not where does it say they do not count? 

I'll put a snippet from the SELECT A WEAPON rule here, you can peruse it yourself if you want to read the whole thing: 
"[...A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. This must be declared before rolling To Hit..." 

No if the unit hasn't shot any shots then it hasn't shot. Again you say that is not how the rules work but again refuse to support that with any rules. You have maintained this stance (as have several others) and not once supported it with any rules. Are you going to support that stance? Are you going to explain why you believe that merely targeting is the same as shooting?

The CF rule only requires that a unit shoots and does not require that at least one model fires a shot in each unit. Units don't fire any shots, models do. You are literally making up a requirement that a unit only shoots if a model fires a shot.

A unit shoots by attempting a shooting attack in the shooting phase and following the shooting sequence, during which all, some, or none of the models in the unit fire a shot. The only requirement that a unit must make in order to shoot and complete the shooting sequence is that the unit must be in line of sight with the target unit. This is how the rules work - simply read and apply the shooting sequence to the units that participate legally in the shooting process. A unit shoots when it goes through the shooting process in the shooting sequence.

If anyone feels otherwise, the burden of proof is on them to find a rule that states that a unit counts as shooting only if at least one model in the unit fires a shot in the shooting sequence. You don't get to appeal to English only. You must find support in the rules themselves. Shooting in game terms is going through the shooting process in the shooting sequence during the shooting phase. A unit shoots by participating in the shooting sequence. As long as a unit can legally participate in the shooting sequence it can fulfill the CF requirement that the unit shoots.

Incorrect if there is a disagreement about the definition of a tern and one side is using the normal English definition and the other is using an "in game" definition the burden of proof is always on the later. We always default to English unless the rules say otherwise no one has yet to provide any evidence that the rules say otherwise for shooting, the rules have a definition for firing shots and thus shooting refers to this unless you can prove otherwise.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Naw wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

X078 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting attack without firing any shots is still considered shooting? Anything at all?

See my former post.
Do you have any rules to support your claim that completing a shooting phase without firing any shots is not considered shooting?Anything at all?

Sigh. So if the unit shoots it has shot that is how English works

Hey, that's great! Let's try math next, ok? If three units combine their shooting, according to CF rule how many units make a shooting attack?

Next question is for you to produce a rule that forces everyone to shoot. I can provide a rule saying exactly the opposite.

Coordinated Firepower requires that each individual unit must shoot to if they are part of the CF attack.

The question was "how many". Can you please answer this? You know you are incorrect when you refuse to answer.

Sorry the answer to your question is 3 and all 3 units MUST fire shots at the target unit or you are breaking the CF rule.

Let's see what Coordinated Firepower actually says: Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot at the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit

So your answer of "3" was obviously incorrect. The correct answer is "1". Now let's follow the rest of the Shooting steps:

Step 3: Select weapons and check range -> BRB pg 31 says: A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers.

Now do you have any rules quotes to support your stance or will you finally concede the point? You haven't shown any rules in support.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

These guys try to invalidate how e.g. Warp Spiders or Ghostkeels trigger their powers. Pretty funny, since there is no rules support other than insisting very hard. 

Please explain what you mean?

Lets see here. Assume you have 1 model that has a gets hot weapon. you fail the gets hot.

Has the model "fired a shot" as you keep insisting is need? No it has not.

Has the model completed the shooting phase? Yes it has.

Let's see what Coordinated Firepower actually says: Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot at the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit 

So your answer of "3" was obviously incorrect. The correct answer is "1". Now let's follow the rest of the Shooting steps: 

Step 3: Select weapons and check range -> BRB pg 31 says: A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. 

Now do you have any rules quotes to support your stance or will you finally concede the point? You haven't shown any rules in support. 

Actually I have supported my stance with the relevant rules. On the first count yes the 3 units are treated as a single unit for the resolving of their shots not for anything else so the answer is 3. Now each individual unit MUST SHOOT (fire some shots) at the target or you have broken CF. Do you disagree with my definition of "must shoot" if so expkain why it is incorrect in English or provide a page reference where the rules supply another definition of shoot?

Ghostkeel works fine with my rules read the Holofield Counter Measures and explain why they wouldn't? Remembering they are triggered by being targeted (rather than being shot) and their rule lasts for the entire shooting phase once triggered.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Incorrect if there is a disagreement about the definition of a tern and one side is using the normal English definition and the other is using an "in game" definition the burden of proof is always on the later. We always default to English unless the rules say otherwise no one has yet to provide any evidence that the rules say otherwise for shooting, the rules have a definition for firing shots and thus shooting refers to this unless you can prove otherwise.

Incorrect. Game definitions always trump English definitions as far as discussing RAW. Mark your argument as HYWPI if you want to continue to place your colloquial English discussion over the rules. I will stick with the rules.

You have yet to provide a quote that says a unit only counts as shooting if at least one model in the unit fires a shot. Otherwise the rules make it abundantly clear that a unit shoots when it makes a legal attempt at a shooting attack in the shooting process as outlined in the shooting sequence during the shooting phase. The rules only require that a unit have line of sight to make a legal attempt at a shooting attack. A unit can commit all, some, or none of its models to the shooting attack. No matter how many models participate in the shooting attack, the shooting attack attempt will have been made - the unit shoots and is no longer able to shoot or run in the shooting phase.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Let's see what Coordinated Firepower actually says: Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot at the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit 

So your answer of "3" was obviously incorrect. The correct answer is "1". Now let's follow the rest of the Shooting steps: 

Step 3: Select weapons and check range -> BRB pg 31 says: A player can choose not to fire with certain models if he prefers. 

Now do you have any rules quotes to support your stance or will you finally concede the point? You haven't shown any rules in support. 

Actually I have supported my stance with the relevant rules. On the first count yes the 3 units are treated as a single unit for the resolving of their shots not for anything else so the answer is 3. Now each individual unit MUST SHOOT (fire some shots) at the target or you have broken CF. Do you disagree with my definition of "must shoot" if so expkain why it is incorrect in English or provide a page reference where the rules supply another definition of shoot?

I disagree with your definition as it has no bearing in this. The unit is in shooting sequence and completing it with or without firing anything means that they have done their shooting.

If you still don't think this is the case, how about I try to spell it out for you in a different way:

I have 1 riptide with IA, 3 crisis suits with plasma and 3 broadsides with hymp/pods. CF is triggered, all enter shooting sequence. Riptide gets +1 BS and other benefits, let's say marker lights are used for ignore cover. In step 3 IA is chosen and resolved, killing the target squad. Now according to you, as those two other units did not shoot anything I get to do the shooting sequence again with them. Plasmas will shoot one target and broadsides another. Good, I have now satisfied your inane reading of the rule.

However that is not how it works.

Ghostkeel works fine with my rules read the Holofield Counter Measures and explain why they wouldn't? Remembering they are triggered by being targeted (rather than being shot) and their rule lasts for the entire shooting phase once triggered.

So who is targeted as my other two units obviously have not shot anyone. Are you saying that they are somehow in shooting sequence part 2? How could they be? I thought we start from step 1, ie. choose a unit that has not yet shot and then proceed to step 2 to choose targets. You are the one who breaks the rules, not I. I follow the rules and both situations are resolved correctly.

I had to make an account. The fact that this fling guy is giving rules and reason, and you guys are simply refusing to accept them cause reasons is insane. Is this how you guys must play? Trying to get everything you can? Someone gives you a valid response with rules quotes and all and you just "can't agree cause I don't like that, it nerfs my stuff"? That's insane.

 FlingitNow wrote:

...Actually I have supported my stance with the relevant rules...

Do tell, where? Care to link that post?

Ceaser wrote:
I had to make an account. The fact that this fling guy is giving rules and reason, and you guys are simply refusing to accept them cause reasons is insane. Is this how you guys must play? Trying to get everything you can? Someone gives you a valid response with rules quotes and all and you just "can't agree cause I don't like that, it nerfs my stuff"? That's insane.

We must have missed the rules quotes, luckily you created an account just to bring up this point. Thank you for contributing.

Let's go through this entire process, start to finish.I do not have the ranges for the Tau weaponry on hand, so I will use an ork squad armed with 9 sluggas (range = 12") and 1 shoota (range = 24"). Just pretend that they are whatever the Tau equivalent of pistols are.

BRB wrote:1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.

My unit of orks is not locked in close combat or running. I am also not trying to snapshot template weapons or perform any other action where the rules explicitly forbid me from shooting. Check.

2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.

What does it mean to nominate a target? According to the rules:

Once you have chosen the unit that you want to shoot with, choose a single enemy unit for them to shoot at. To do so, you must check the range and line of sight from your unit to the enemy unit you are targeting. Note that you may check the range and line of sight to multiple enemy units before deciding which one to shoot at and declaring it to your opponent. You cannot target a unit that is locked in combat.

To target an enemy unit, at least one model must have line of sight to at least one model in the target unit. If no model has line of sight, then a different target must be chosen.

I measure range and check line of sight to a squad of space marines. I find that I am in line of sight and am 35" away. I then target that unit as at least one model has line of sight to that unit. Check.

3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.

I select the shoota. My model with the shoota is not in range so no shots are fired. Check.

4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.

0 rolls to hit, 0 successes. Check.

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.

0 rolls to wound, 0 successes. Check.

6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.

0 wounds allocated. Check.

7. Select Another Weapon. After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6.

I select the sluggas and repeat steps 3 through 7, with a total of 0 hits and 0 wounds. Check. The unit has gone through steps 1-7 of the shooting phase and has been considered to have made a shooting attack at the enemy unit.


Now looking at the Tau rule where my unit of orks that are somehow part of this formation wish to contribute firepower:

"Coordinated Firepower: Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their fire power to the attack.

Starts off with a fluff description of what is going on along with some basic prerequisites (unit making a shooting attack).

These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities.

My orks, as I have shown above, are allowed to shoot at the enemy unit. They cannot hurt the unit, but they can shoot at it.

When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill."

3 units, including my orks are now combining their firepower (defined in sentence 2 as: shoot the same target). Each of the units gets a +1 to their ballistics skill as they resolve their attacks. These may not have all been the most effective of shooting attacks, but they were shooting attacks.

I disagree with your definition as it has no bearing in this. The unit is in shooting sequence and completing it with or without firing anything means that they have done their shooting. 

Then clearly mark your posts as HYWPI according to the tenets. As you admit this stance is not supported by the rules (your refusal to supply rules to support this is your admission).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Signless recheck what you said at step 3 vs your rules quote. The models don't fire 0 shots they are not allowed to shoot thus if you are counting them as having shot you have broken that very rule you quoted.

 FlingitNow wrote:

I disagree with your definition as it has no bearing in this. The unit is in shooting sequence and completing it with or without firing anything means that they have done their shooting. 

Then clearly mark your posts as HYWPI according to the tenets. As you admit this stance is not supported by the rules (your refusal to supply rules to support this is your admission).

Did you ever stop to think YOUR posts are HYWPI? YOU have not given any references and every single time your only response is "la la la i don't want to hear it. Quote something"

notredameguy10 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

I disagree with your definition as it has no bearing in this. The unit is in shooting sequence and completing it with or without firing anything means that they have done their shooting. 

Then clearly mark your posts as HYWPI according to the tenets. As you admit this stance is not supported by the rules (your refusal to supply rules to support this is your admission).

Did you ever stop to think YOUR posts are HYWPI? YOU have not given any references and every single time your only response is "la la la i don't want to hear it. Quote something"

I have actually referenced the relevant rules. CF being the main one and also the shooting phase in particular step 3 which explains when shooting occurs and step 4 which sets up that shooting consists of firing shots.