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Ordinatus Ulator Sonic Wave rules state:

When firing the weapon, place the massive blast (7") marker so that its edge it touching some part of the firing model's forward hull. Then move the template in a direct line away from the model, travelling in any direction within the weapons 45 degree forward firing arc until its max range (72") is reached or the template leaves the table. All models the template passed over at least partially suffer a single automatic hit. In the case of units of multiple models, the unit suffers a number of automatic hits equal to the number of models the template has contacted, casutlies being chosen by the controlling player of th affected units. Flyers and Flying Creatures are also struck if the template passed over their base.

Note: The weapon may be still fired even if friendly models are caught in its area of effect, and the weapons fire may strike units along the path of the blast to which it may not itself have line of site or be eligible to target. However, the first unit targeted by the weapon must be an enemy model or the weapon may not be fired.

So, can you:
Target an invisible unit/model with this?
If not, target another unit/model that is not invisible then follow the path over the invisible unit/model?

On your first point, the weapon itself is acting exactly like a beam profile weapon. You are just using the template to measure the path. A lot like the Space Marine Glaive. Since it is not a template weapon by the rules of a template weapon. Yes they can be targeted.

On your second point, there is no question, if the beam/wave passes over an invisible unit it will be hit. Nothing is preventing that, you can do the same with flamer weapons (especially torrent and hellstorm) or if blasts scatter.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
On your first point, the weapon itself is acting exactly like a beam profile weapon. You are just using the template to measure the path. A lot like the Space Marine Glaive. Since it is not a template weapon by the rules of a template weapon. Yes they can be targeted.

Beam profile weapons cannot target Invisible units, as they auto-hit. Auto-hitting Weapons cannot be Snap Fired.

Interestingly enough, the weapon's rule as quoted above is not noted for "targeting" anything until it mentions the first unit hit. An unusual circumstance for a "beam" style weapon.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
On your second point, there is no question, if the beam/wave passes over an invisible unit it will be hit. Nothing is preventing that, you can do the same with flamer weapons (especially torrent and hellstorm) or if blasts scatter.

Agreed. The only other restriction is that it cannot be the first unit hit, since this is apparently "targeting" the weapon.

This one gets a little tricky, since it specifically you just have to have an enemy model hit first, that can be a flyer which should only be snapshot at without skyfire. This weapon doesn't have a position where it can be put in a snap firing position (without being hit by a cerberus, or sicaran venator)

If an invisible model happens to be the first model in the way it gets hit, because an invisible unit would basically block this from being used if you stood them in front of it spread out otherwise.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
This one gets a little tricky, since it specifically you just have to have an enemy model hit first, that can be a flyer which should only be snapshot at without skyfire. This weapon doesn't have a position where it can be put in a snap firing position (without being hit by a cerberus, or sicaran venator)

A Zoomer wouldn't qualify, as template weapons cannot even hit a Zoomer. Oddly enough, it can hit a Swooper. Stupid GW for not putting Hared to Hit in the USRs and just put it in the flyer's unit notes like Relentless for Jet Packs and Fleet for Beasts.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
If an invisible model happens to be the first model in the way it gets hit, because an invisible unit would basically block this from being used if you stood them in front of it spread out otherwise.

Agreed. Stupid, but it would block it just as much as a friendly unit would.

As this weapon doesn't target, it can affect invisible units fine. They are simply caught in the path of the weapon much like any other beam weapon.

Fragile wrote:
As this weapon doesn't target, it can affect invisible units fine. They are simply caught in the path of the weapon much like any other beam weapon.

Reread the note. The first unit hit is considered "targeted".

Just going to point out the rule for the weapon specifically says it hits Flyers and Flying Creatures, straight from the book making no distinction between swooping and not.

As you can probably guess my worry with this is blocking the path of the beam with units that can't be targeted. Its already going to need a fairly large area of the table clear of my units to shoot (as most units tend to move from your deployment zone into their deployment zone) so I can see it as pretty easy to block this from shooting or at least restrict its firing arc for certain armies.

I really dislike that targeted in rule wording as the rest of the rule reads as you aren't targeting anything and just moving the template, auto hitting everything in its path.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
Just going to point out the rule for the weapon specifically says it hits Flyers and Flying Creatures, straight from the book making no distinction between swooping and not.

Hard to Hit for Swoopers does not mention not being hit by templates, so is not in question.

It does mention hitting Flyers (which I admit I missed), but does not mention Zooming Flyers. There is implication as such, though, since the only time a Flyer is not Zooming is when it is acting like a Skimmer.

Here we'll make it simple.

Sonic wave weapon check system.

Invisible Units
Invisible forces Snapshots: True
Invisible can not be targeted by Blast or Template Weapons: True
Can not be auto hit at range: False


Sonic Destructor:
Weapon is its own classification "wave", not labeled blast or Template: True
Weapon Auto Hits: True
Must hit enemy model first: True
Can hit Flyers: True

So. Let's see what modifies what.

Firing at invis GK terminators.
Weapon path is measured.
What is first Model: Grey Knight Terminator
Is This Model an Enemy Model: Yes
Weapon forced to fire Snapshots: True
Weapon is not labeled Template/Blast: True
Weapon allowed to fire.
Weapon hits resolved on Snapshots: True
Weapon Auto hits: True
Weapon hits 5 models
Wounds allocated by Model controling player.
Weapon path continues.
Model with "Flyer" Profile type in path
Does weapon hit this model: Weapon profile says yes.
Flyer is automatically hit: True
Flyer elects to jink: True
Jink Ignored: Weapon ignores cover
Model takes its result on damage table.

End result Both invisible and Flyer Flying Creatures are hit by this weapon. Nothing in the rules is preventing it.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
Here we'll make it simple.

Sonic wave weapon check system.

Invisible Units
Invisible forces Snapshots: True
Invisible can not be targeted by Blast or Template Weapons: True
Can not be auto hit at range: False

You forgot that Invisible units cannot be targeted by weapons that auto-hit, which the Sonic Destructor does. This changes your latter paradigm.

So long as the Invisible unit is not targeted, it can be hit by auto-hit weapons, but they cannot be the unit classed as the weapon's target.

Unfortunately, you are wrong.

Word for Word, Basic Rulebook, page 198:
Whilst the power is in effect Enemy Units Can only fire Snapshots at the target unit, and in close combat will only hit models in it on To Hit rolls of a 6.

End of rule, There is nothing in the power preventing you from being auto hit in the case of an Auto Hit weapon Like the Sonic Destructor.

If the Sonic Destructor had a Balsistic skill mod it would be effected and dropped to bs1, instead the vehicles profile is dropped to BS1, but the automatic hit profile override the need to roll period.

Charistoph wrote:
Beam profile weapons cannot target Invisible units, as they auto-hit. Auto-hitting Weapons cannot be Snap Fired.

Going to need a page and paragraph reference for this, because I can not find a rule that states what you claim.

Chapter Master Angelos wrote:Unfortunately, you are wrong.

Word for Word, Basic Rulebook, page 198:
Whilst the power is in effect Enemy Units Can only fire Snapshots at the target unit, and in close combat will only hit models in it on To Hit rolls of a 6.

End of rule, There is nothing in the power preventing you from being auto hit in the case of an Auto Hit weapon Like the Sonic Destructor.

If the Sonic Destructor had a Balsistic skill mod it would be effected and dropped to bs1, instead the vehicles profile is dropped to BS1, but the automatic hit profile override the need to roll period.

DeathReaper wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
Beam profile weapons cannot target Invisible units, as they auto-hit. Auto-hitting Weapons cannot be Snap Fired.

Going to need a page and paragraph reference for this, because I can not find a rule that states what you claim.

Third Paragraph of the Rulebook > Shooting Phase > Roll To-Hi > Snap Shots:

Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot. These exceptions aside, Snap Shots are treated in the same manner as any other shooting attack made with a Ballistic Skill of 1.

Bolded and colored for your convenience.

This is been part of Snap Shots since it was introduced in 6th Edition:

SNAP SHOTS
Under certain circumstances, models can only fire Snap Shots - opportunistic bursts of fire 'snapped' off in the general direction of the target. The most common occurrence of a Snap Shot is when a model with a Heavy weapon, such as a heavy bolter, moves and shoots in the same turn. If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being I for the purpose of those shots. Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance) or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill - such as the Necron Monolith's portal of exile - cannot be 'fired' as a Snap Shot.

So this is not exactly new information.

Charistoph wrote:

Fragile wrote:
As this weapon doesn't target, it can affect invisible units fine. They are simply caught in the path of the weapon much like any other beam weapon.

Reread the note. The first unit hit is considered "targeted".

While I dont think that "targeted' is anything more than GW's use of common language, rather than the weapon targets a specific unit, I would say the first line there give permission regardless.

The weapon may be still fired even if friendly models are caught in its area of effect, and the weapons fire may strike units along the path of the blast to which it may not itself have line of site or be eligible to target.

Fragile wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

Fragile wrote:
As this weapon doesn't target, it can affect invisible units fine. They are simply caught in the path of the weapon much like any other beam weapon.

Reread the note. The first unit hit is considered "targeted".

While I dont think that "targeted' is anything more than GW's use of common language, rather than the weapon targets a specific unit, I would say the first line there give permission regardless.

The weapon may be still fired even if friendly models are caught in its area of effect, and the weapons fire may strike units along the path of the blast to which it may not itself have line of site or be eligible to target.

Remember, the note only really considers the first unit to be hit as "targeted". That is why I pointed out that being Invisible would only affect it if it was the first unit hit. Being the second or latter unit is not a consideration since none in the sequence are considered "targeted".

That line pretty much says you can though. If the first enemy model in the path is out of LoS it can be hit still. So can invisible Units as they wold by that "not otherwise be eligible" but still be first in line.

Charistoph wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
Beam profile weapons cannot target Invisible units, as they auto-hit. Auto-hitting Weapons cannot be Snap Fired.

Going to need a page and paragraph reference for this, because I can not find a rule that states what you claim.

Third Paragraph of the Rulebook > Shooting Phase > Roll To-Hi > Snap Shots:

That does not say what you think it says.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
Beam profile weapons cannot target Invisible units, as they auto-hit. Auto-hitting Weapons cannot be Snap Fired.

Going to need a page and paragraph reference for this, because I can not find a rule that states what you claim.

Third Paragraph of the Rulebook > Shooting Phase > Roll To-Hi > Snap Shots:

That does not say what you think it says.

What do you think I think it means, and what do you think it means?