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Is this a legitimate pale courts core choice?

Autarch
3 units of dire avengers

And from this I can add in aspect hosts etc?

Yes, that's legal. The Autarch would also get to reroll misses in a challenge.

You can also include 0-3 guardian squads and 0-1 warlock conclaves.


You can't have any other Core choices (though you can have multiples of this one, should you wish), but you can have Command and Axillary choices as normal.

That's absolutely fantastic! I thought it may have been too good to be true.

If you were to have multiples, there isn't anything stopping the next core choice having 3 different units of aspect warriors is there?

There aren't any restrictions on taking allies or a CAD with this are there? If so where are they?

NG77 wrote:
That's absolutely fantastic! I thought it may have been too good to be true.

If you were to have multiples, there isn't anything stopping the next core choice having 3 different units of aspect warriors is there?

That's correct (though they all have to be from the same aspect - e.g. 3 units of Fire Dragons).

NG77 wrote:
There aren't any restrictions on taking allies or a CAD with this are there? If so where are they?

No restrictions.

Thanks for your help, can't wait to use this!

 vipoid wrote:
What are your guys thoughts regarding Corsair Venoms, Vypers and Wasps?

And, with regard to the Venoms and Vypers, is it worth paying for a second Heavy gun? (assuming they're worth taking at all)

The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.

What I do find a let down is that they're Dedicated only. I would have loved to use a Deep Striking Venom for some Fire Dragons.

Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.

 vipoid wrote:
Here's a question for you guys, which do you think is best - an Autarch or a Corsair Prince?

I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.

 Sarigar wrote:
I converted the Deathshroud Cannon using the Suncannon and an extra Nightspinner weapon.

II converted a Wraithlord into a Wraithseer using brass rod as the basis for the Ghost Spear.

I did buy FW Warp Hunters, however.

I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.

I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?

Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.

 Cieged wrote:


I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.

I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?

Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.

I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.

Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.

 Cieged wrote:

The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.

Seems really pricey to me. I mean, once you add the invulnerable and the deep strike ability you're paying 5pts more than a DE venom with 2 splinter cannons, and yours doesn't even have a second gun yet.

Once you add a second gun, then you're paying 80-90 points for a paper-thin transport with a measly 2 HPs. And, if you don't add a second gun, is it even worth paying for the invulnerable save?

 Cieged wrote:

Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.

Yeah, 2 Pulse Lasers apiece for 80pts does blow most competition out of the water. The only reason I'm not using them is that I don't own any appropriate models.

 Cieged wrote:

I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.

Well, I'd say the Aurarch definitely has better wargear. The Prince has the Void Sabre and Shadowfield/Forcefied... that's about it, really. Collector of Ancient Treasures not withstanding, everything else is either horribly overcosted or just pathetic. In contrast, the Autarch has an outstanding array of wargear - such as fusion guns, reaper launchers, banshee mask, death spinners etc. Not to mention that, unlike the Prince, he starts with a Forcefield and haywire genades (adding those to the Prince adds 25pts to his cost). He also has vastly better mobility options, since they both have Jetbikes, but whereas the Prince is otherwise stuck with a Jet Pack, the Autarch can have a Warp Pack (i.e. a vastly better jet pack) or a Jump Pack that lets him move 18".

Almost ironic really - the Pince has better melee options, yet the Autarch has far more options for actually getting to melee.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

 Cieged wrote:


I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.

I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?

Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.

I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.

Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.

Interesting. Did the new movement style play any role in your positioning or did you just accept the bog standard 12" jump?

 vipoid wrote:

 Cieged wrote:

The Venoms I find attractive due to their new Deep Strike option in tandem with the improved Invulnerable when they do. It's a tad pricier but from I've seen on Dark Eldar Bat Reps being on the table with Venoms can be a bad time.

Seems really pricey to me. I mean, once you add the invulnerable and the deep strike ability you're paying 5pts more than a DE venom with 2 splinter cannons, and yours doesn't even have a second gun yet.

Once you add a second gun, then you're paying 80-90 points for a paper-thin transport with a measly 2 HPs. And, if you don't add a second gun, is it even worth paying for the invulnerable save?

 Cieged wrote:

Vypers didn't grasp my attention, Wasps seem to be quite a solid choice but I still hedge towards Hornets.

Yeah, 2 Pulse Lasers apiece for 80pts does blow most competition out of the water. The only reason I'm not using them is that I don't own any appropriate models.

 Cieged wrote:

I've only ever loved the Autarch for Reserve manipulation. The Prince has some neat supportive rules though that should make him more viable. I'd love to see someone make an army based on the Multiphase Key.

Well, I'd say the Aurarch definitely has better wargear. The Prince has the Void Sabre and Shadowfield/Forcefied... that's about it, really. Collector of Ancient Treasures not withstanding, everything else is either horribly overcosted or just pathetic. In contrast, the Autarch has an outstanding array of wargear - such as fusion guns, reaper launchers, banshee mask, death spinners etc. Not to mention that, unlike the Prince, he starts with a Forcefield and haywire genades (adding those to the Prince adds 25pts to his cost). He also has vastly better mobility options, since they both have Jetbikes, but whereas the Prince is otherwise stuck with a Jet Pack, the Autarch can have a Warp Pack (i.e. a vastly better jet pack) or a Jump Pack that lets him move 18".

Almost ironic really - the Pince has better melee options, yet the Autarch has far more options for actually getting to melee.

You're very correct on the unappealing price of the Corsair Venom - but I was presupposing there was some unit of value inside. The vehicle is limited to being a dedicated transport, so there could easily be a squad inside kitted to appropriate short-to-medium range weaponry that then wouldn't have to risk death by starting on the board (interceptor aside). The price is definitely a consideration, but I'm wondering if dropping the Corsair Devastator equivalents in a Deep Strike Venom would be a good time. A pseudo blaster-born drop.

I also agree that the Autarch is a superior point-per-buy. I'm still riding the presupposed train here however. My Craftworld list has always avoided melee like the plague unless my Wraithknight is ready to stomp or my Seer Council is fully buffed. The Autarch just has no support in this task - and I mean this on the competitive level where Banshees and Scorpions just don't make the cut.

I see more utility in the Prince. His Leadership/Routing buff, a few gimmicks that could be used with First Prince via Multiphase or stealing a Harlequin/Dark Eldar Relic. I agree it's nothing grounds breaking and presumably not competitive, but he fits the mark better than Autarch does for me in the melee-leadership category.

 Cieged wrote:

You're very correct on the unappealing price of the Corsair Venom - but I was presupposing there was some unit of value inside. The vehicle is limited to being a dedicated transport, so there could easily be a squad inside kitted to appropriate short-to-medium range weaponry that then wouldn't have to risk death by starting on the board (interceptor aside).

I suppose part of the issue for me is that I can't imagine myself actually staying inside the Venom with the unit once it lands. More likely, I'll be getting out to either get into melta range (correcting for any deep-strike scatter) or else to make use of reckless abandon and get out of sight.

 Cieged wrote:
. The price is definitely a consideration, but I'm wondering if dropping the Corsair Devastator equivalents in a Deep Strike Venom would be a good time. A pseudo blaster-born drop.

The trouble with that is Balestrikes are only relentless with jet packs. So, if you put them in a moving transport, you'll either be snapshotting heavy weapons or else menacing the enemy with 5 Lasblasters.

 Cieged wrote:

I also agree that the Autarch is a superior point-per-buy. I'm still riding the presupposed train here however. My Craftworld list has always avoided melee like the plague unless my Wraithknight is ready to stomp or my Seer Council is fully buffed. The Autarch just has no support in this task - and I mean this on the competitive level where Banshees and Scorpions just don't make the cut.

I see more utility in the Prince. His Leadership/Routing buff, a few gimmicks that could be used with First Prince via Multiphase or stealing a Harlequin/Dark Eldar Relic. I agree it's nothing grounds breaking and presumably not competitive, but he fits the mark better than Autarch does for me in the melee-leadership category.

That's fair enough. Out of interest, assuming you were playing pure Corsairs, what unit would you put the Prince with to go melee?

Also, apropos of nothing, but I really wish the Prince was I7.

 Cieged wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

 Cieged wrote:


I purchased a Deathshroud kit and plan to magnetize the weapons and use two Suncannons for the Inferno Lances. I play in ITC territory, so having the Melta is vastly superior than the nerfed D-Cannon.

I've not used the Deathshroud yet at all. Are others having success with it?

Lastly I've been experimenting using a Void Dreamer as a part of my Seer Council list. Periodically picking up some amazing Aethermancy has been stunningly useful if not a luck based strategy, but having a Shadowfield tank Grav Drop has been phenomenally helpful.

I used a Deathshroud/Scattershield in a game versus a Ravenwing. It threw a wrench in their 2+ re-roll jink. A Helstorm template covers alot of models. I was able to glance the Deathshroud to death while firing on the nearby bikes.

Since the Deathshroud is not torrent, positioning is very important.

Interesting. Did the new movement style play any role in your positioning or did you just accept the bog standard 12" jump?

I did not use the new movement options. I think it is stupid to re-deploy 12" with a scatter versus just moving 12" where you want to go being a JGC. I did not need to go back in on-going reserve but it is an interesting option to have.

The shield coupled with fortune is what kept it alive against the plasma and grav. A little thing also I always put a lone shuriken cannon on a shoulder to fire at the closest unit. That way I can "flame" my main target and charge the secondary target because a tiny gun fired at it.

So "flame" the bikes, shoot the grav canons the drop podded behind me and charge them the same phase.

I'm still reading through it, but I'm really liking what I see. I don't do corsairs, but the amount of options that this brings to Craftworld Eldar is insane!

You know, because we needed more options

I'm still on the fence about the wraithknight variants though. The giant warp spider one definitely has the most appeal, as that much ignores cover makes the heldrake blush.

So I've been running corsairs for a while now. Let me touch on a few points.

1) SpiderKnight. I run mine with inferno lances and a scatter. He is significantly better than a normal wraithknight in my opinion, though most events here in the US have a nerfed D table. I tend to use him alongside warp hunters or wraithguard, so I don't mind the loss of the heavy cannons. In fact, the inferno does much more reliable damage versus a vehicle heavy meta, a la gladius. It helps tremendously against necrons and other tough units with increased range, shots, and low AP for killing power.

2) Warp hunters. Beyond amazing. If I can, I'll run a unit of 1 (maybe 2) in a corsair coterie for the better damage table. 2 units of 1 in a craftworld list works wonders though.

3) Corsair Prince. Hands down amazing. Having a jetbike, shadow field, venom blade, and either Mask of Secrets or going Reaper of the Outer Dark has made him a staple in many of my lists. Being able to combo him with shriek (Mask) or warp tunnel / shooting at a far away unit and charging something else (Reaper) catches many people off guard and really adds to any deathstar or decent combat unit.

4) Void dreamer. The meta changer. Mine I tend to run with Level 3, jetpack, and a shimmershield. I've had him peril only twice, but both times wound up rolling a 1 and becoming a daemon. Since he doesn't lose his wargear, giving him a shadowfield made him a pain to deal with when my opponent got to use him suddenly in one game. He also gets Rage from Reaper, so having not one but two units being able to charge things they didn't shoot at is wonderful.

Hey, thanks for the information... looks like I'll finally be able to play my DE like I did back with the 3rd Ed codex!! Whoot!

If possible, I'd love to know some info on the Malevolent bands.
Cheers!

I got to use 2 x 1 Warp Hunters, Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon, and a Deathshroud Cannon armed Wraithknight at a recent 2 day tourney. I went 4-1 and won my bracket in day two.

Warp Hunters are fantastic. I used the chart where it is a flat -1 to the dice roll (I'm waiting to see if FW clarifies this) just to ensure no rules issues during the event. I did pay for a Holofield and I'm not sure the extra points are worth it. I only lost both of them in one out of five games. Being able to fire these multiple times during a game was brutal.

Wraithknight. I lost him in only one game. The Hellstorm template is fantastic. But, by losing long range shooting, this is why I needed the Warp Hunters. I equipped mine with Deathshroud Cannon/Scatterfield/Scatterlaser. It definitely alleviated the issue with being able to ignore cover and clearing out light infantry, then use the scatter laser at a different target simply to be able to assault.

Wraithseer was, ok. I think it was a bit too many points for what I got in my build. I did not have other Wraith units, so his psychic abilities were pretty much wasted. I've since dropped him, but he was not horrible, just not great. He did, however, draw a lot of attention from my opponents when it came to shootoing. A mobile D-Cannon is not something to ignore. But, it is hard to justify 245 points for the D-Cannon shot.

Managed to test out the new Lynx at Cally...

Pros

3 twin linked D-shots/D-blast CAN hit hard and scare the gak out of most players making it high priority

It's pretty cheap for what it does and it's a HS option.

5 hull points + the ability to fly really makes it survivable.



Cons

Without the magic 6 on the D chart, it's pretty sub-par. Most units are still going to get their cover/invulnerable save.


Summary

This is one of those that depends on the type of person playing it, if you tend to roll hot this can work for you, otherwise stick to a warp hunter.

I'm planning on including both a Lynx and a Warp Hunter in my Corsairs army, is this overkill/too many points invested in two relatively fragile units?

I'll run them together with some deep striking venoms with 2 Fusion guns in each, and a bunch of Scatter Bikes.

I'm considering to ally in the Scalpel Squadron from the DE to be able to Null Deploy, as there seems to be a lot of Alpha Strike lists around (Skyhammer etc.). Worth it?

GrafWattenburg wrote:
I'm planning on including both a Lynx and a Warp Hunter in my Corsairs army, is this overkill/too many points invested in two relatively fragile units?

I'll run them together with some deep striking venoms with 2 Fusion guns in each, and a bunch of Scatter Bikes.

I'm considering to ally in the Scalpel Squadron from the DE to be able to Null Deploy, as there seems to be a lot of Alpha Strike lists around (Skyhammer etc.). Worth it?

Yes. Scalpel Squadron is an indispensable tool in any competitive Eldar list.

@Graf

The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.

Also dont forget CTM on the hunters.

 iddy00711 wrote:
@Graf

The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.

Also dont forget CTM on the hunters.

Formations are out of the option for me as I want to run Corsairs as my primary force, not Craftworld Eldar. I might ally in an Eldar CAD to get a WK though. I guess I could and should just run the planned Corsair list as Craftworlders, but I'm a hipster at heart so faction: Corsairs is what I'm in for

What guns do you guys recon are the best for your standard troops? Lasblasters or splinter rifles?

Brace of Pistols!

GrafWattenburg wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:
@Graf

The best load out is 2 warp hunters and 1 lynx in each in their respective formations. It's not competitive for the price but it definitely helps Eldar fill in some weaknesses, such as deep striking Cents/ War con and AV13 spam. I would use them as purely expandable support roles but not the high priority ones so make sure youve got a wraithknight at hand and/or fair number of spider or scat bikes.

Also dont forget CTM on the hunters.

Formations are out of the option for me as I want to run Corsairs as my primary force, not Craftworld Eldar. I might ally in an Eldar CAD to get a WK though. I guess I could and should just run the planned Corsair list as Craftworlders, but I'm a hipster at heart so faction: Corsairs is what I'm in for

What guns do you guys recon are the best for your standard troops? Lasblasters or splinter rifles?

If you are running an Eldar CAD, you can still run various units in this book. The unit entries advise what battlefield role they play. Wraithseer is an HQ, Warp Hunter is a Heavy Support etc...

Hmm, not a bad idea actually. I picked up the Dark Elf Corsairs recently and modeled them with the sword and repeater crossbow pistol, so brace of pistols would fit the model.

Now should I give my 5-man units in Venoms free Rage? Every sensible part of me says "no! They're meant to deep strike in and kill vehicles with Fusion guns!", but having them forced to charge straight into a Knight afterwards is just too tempting..

The requirement to charge a unit within 8" doesn't override the normal restriction from charging after arriving from reserves, right?

Pretty sure it is explained in the book. I don't recall any rule issue that allowed assaults to occur when they normally would not be able to do so.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
The requirement to charge a unit within 8" doesn't override the normal restriction from charging after arriving from reserves, right?

Correct. Though, you can shoot one unit and then charge a different unit if you're not within 8" of the unit you shot.

Yeah. Reaper works well in a large unit that wants to shoot a high value target and charge something else. Quite a useful skill, something of a ghetto split fire.

For the people talking about taking multiple Corsair Warp Hunters and Lynxes, they're 0-1 per detachment remember.

mercury14 wrote:
For the people talking about taking multiple Corsair Warp Hunters and Lynxes, they're 0-1 per detachment remember.

But Warp Hunters can be taken in Squadrons so you can take up to 3 in your 0-1.

Also detachments for corsairs have a pretty low buy in price and the mandatory units are good to great. Thus 0-1 per detachment is not a huge limitation IMO.

BTW I have experimenting with using Barons/princes with shadow field as my on table units when I run full reserves. Has anyone else tried this yet?

So far I have not been tabled. This is due to the shadow field staying on until the end of the phase and the small model size. I usually only have to survive one major attempt per baron/prince and then these guys jump around with jetpacks and score objectives the rest of the game (and occasionally kill weak units).

 ansacs wrote:
Also detachments for corsairs have a pretty low buy in price and the mandatory units are good to great. Thus 0-1 per detachment is not a huge limitation IMO.

I'm not sure I'd call Corsair Barons great.

Do you really find them useful? For me they're just taxes.