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So, as the title says, are my just over 2k points worth of vampire counts worthless now AOS is out? I dont know much about the games system or anything, i just saw they changed the name, and heard the rules were butchered and such. forgive my ignorance, as i havent been to a geedubs in about a year for PUG with m fantasy and i was wondering if they were worth keeping? thanks
"Your friends can't save you now, they are hanging from the spires, just as you will be, should you fail."- kabal of the broken blade.
I Highly suggest having a look at this website here. It's the spiritual successor to Warhammer Fantasy, made by a community of people who were...disgruntled by AoS so drastically changing the themes of block combat. So they decided to fix 8th themselves, calling it 9th Age. I highly recommend it if you can find a group of people also interested in playing fantasy how it used to be.
There's also Mantic's Kings of War. 2nd Edition released this past year. In addition to 'standard' fantasy armies (Orcs, Goblins, Elves, etc.), they also have a supplement (Uncharted Empires) that does a good job of catering to former WHFB players (for example, Ratkin that are functionally Skaven).
Give Age of Sigmar a shot because it can be really fun. You won't be using your 2000 points in one game usually - but think of it more like you have multiple undead armies now. Want to play Deathrattle (skeleton) or Mordant (ghoul) only armies? No problem! Had a Zombie horde in 8th? It's probably enough models to play a fun "walking dead" style scenario.
Plus you can play some really fun builds like deploying nothing but necromancers and trying to summon an entire army!
Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-)
It depends on your mood - if you want a super quick skirmish game while hanging with your friends and drinking a beer, AoS is perfect.
If you want to keep playing large mass battles regiment games, either continue playing Warhammer 8 (the rules aren't invalidated if you own and your pals own them and want to keep playing) or trying Kings of War, as previously recommended (from the author or previous editions of Warhammer, a fast play fantasy mass battles game)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
While we're on the subject of vampires have we seen any in AoS other than Manfred?
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
jonolikespie wrote: While we're on the subject of vampires have we seen any in AoS other than Manfred?
We have, in one of the novels a vampire lord appears in the Realm of Death, working alongside a necromancer friend of a Lord-Relictor.
Friends? Do they go to the pub after work?
Which pub? When was it built? Where was the landlord born? Does he have a family? Who makes the glasses? What proof is the liquor?
GODDAMMIT GW HOW AM I MEANT TO PLAY THIS GAME?!
jonolikespie wrote: While we're on the subject of vampires have we seen any in AoS other than Manfred?
We have, in one of the novels a vampire lord appears in the Realm of Death, working alongside a necromancer friend of a Lord-Relictor.
Friends? Do they go to the pub after work?
Which pub? When was it built? Where was the landlord born? Does he have a family? Who makes the glasses? What proof is the liquor?
GODDAMMIT GW HOW AM I MEANT TO PLAY THIS GAME?!
So you don't even raise an eyebrow to the fact that a Lord-Relictor is friends with a Necromancer?
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
jonolikespie wrote: While we're on the subject of vampires have we seen any in AoS other than Manfred?
We have, in one of the novels a vampire lord appears in the Realm of Death, working alongside a necromancer friend of a Lord-Relictor.
Friends? Do they go to the pub after work?
Which pub? When was it built? Where was the landlord born? Does he have a family? Who makes the glasses? What proof is the liquor?
GODDAMMIT GW HOW AM I MEANT TO PLAY THIS GAME?!
So you don't even raise an eyebrow to the fact that a Lord-Relictor is friends with a Necromancer?
Sigmar is resurecting the stormcasts again and again, he's kind of a necromancer himself.
jonolikespie wrote: While we're on the subject of vampires have we seen any in AoS other than Manfred?
We have, in one of the novels a vampire lord appears in the Realm of Death, working alongside a necromancer friend of a Lord-Relictor.
Friends? Do they go to the pub after work?
Which pub? When was it built? Where was the landlord born? Does he have a family? Who makes the glasses? What proof is the liquor?
GODDAMMIT GW HOW AM I MEANT TO PLAY THIS GAME?!
So you don't even raise an eyebrow to the fact that a Lord-Relictor is friends with a Necromancer?
Sigmar is resurecting the stormcasts again and again, he's kind of a necromancer himself.
He also allied with Nagash himself.............
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
So you don't even raise an eyebrow to the fact that a Lord-Relictor is friends with a Necromancer?
Friends in his old life - however, he remembers the necromancer well, and the Stormcasts are getting their rear ends handed to them by the Bloodbound (it is a _really_ big fortress they are attacking). The Lord-Relictor bargains with the necromancer to lend his support to their attack, which kinds works, but the Stormcasts have to give up something quite vital to their mission in order to get it. And, of course, the dead people have their own agenda...
No, Order and Chaos are opposed. The Stormcasts are somewhat annoying Nagash, but the Stormcasts are not the total sum of Order and, as much as he might like to think so, Nagash is not the total sum of Death.
There is just a tad more depth to this setting than you two chaps give it credit for
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 13:49:07
Relictors souls are retrieved from the realm of death, so nothing weird about them having previous with vampires or necromancers, especially as they're tasked with channelling Shyish.
Order and Death were originally loosely allied, until Nagash decided to shank Sigmar to help out Archaon/Chaos.
So broadly Stormcasts and Death are now 'opposed', but I guess once Sigmar has his hands on a Relictor's soul it's not likely he'll lose them again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 13:55:30
And, for the record "originally loosely allied" isn't the same as "friends".
And, as Matt pointed out, this only applies in terms of faction, and as Relictors *were* 'Death' until they were reforged, friendship not exactly unlikely.
Thanks for the backhanded acknowledgement of my post, by the way. Keep on digging!
Carlson793 wrote: There's also Mantic's Kings of War. 2nd Edition released this past year. In addition to 'standard' fantasy armies (Orcs, Goblins, Elves, etc.), they also have a supplement (Uncharted Empires) that does a good job of catering to former WHFB players (for example, Ratkin that are functionally Skaven).
I've heard about using KoW as a rules substitute, but how does it work exactly? Like, to what extent do the rules tailor to WFB minis? For example, if I played Wood Elves, would I find a unit entry that might apply to my regiment of Glade Guard, etc.?
I'm in a similar position to OP, my friends and I have WFB armies and love the Old World lore, but we're unsure if we'd rather continue using 8th ed, try AoS rules, or use KoW 2nd ed.
*Edit*
Thanks for the super detailed explanation Jono! You've definitely cleared up a lot of misgivings I've had about KoW. A lot of fantasy players at my lgs have been asking about it, so the store owner ordered a bunch which should arrive next week. Looking forward to reading the rules over myself!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/13 01:43:01
There is KoW which I personally have no experience with but have seen a great deal of friends take up.
You could use your models as a undead fantasy force in Dragon Rampant / Lion Rampant.
Alternatively, use them as a Revenant force for Saga.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/11 23:33:48
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Carlson793 wrote: There's also Mantic's Kings of War. 2nd Edition released this past year. In addition to 'standard' fantasy armies (Orcs, Goblins, Elves, etc.), they also have a supplement (Uncharted Empires) that does a good job of catering to former WHFB players (for example, Ratkin that are functionally Skaven).
I've heard about using KoW as a rules substitute, but how does it work exactly? Like, to what extent do the rules tailor to WFB minis? For example, if I played Wood Elves, would I find a unit entry that might apply to my regiment of Glade Guard, etc.?
I'm in a similar position to OP, my friends and I have WFB armies and love the Old World lore, but we're unsure if we'd rather continue using 8th ed, try AoS rules, or use KoW 2nd ed.
KoW simplifies everything very much. All the special rules and all 6 or so magic spells are in the core rulebook, as is every magic item which are all avalible to all races. You buy your troops in blocks of 10, 20, or 40 rather than x points per soldier and those blocks do not shrink or reform. A lot of people will mount those soldiers on a single large base as the dimensions are set and stay the same all game. If you enjoyed how the movement phase was so important in WHFB then you will love KoW as it is also a game that is won or lost on movement. When a unit strikes an enemy in the flank the bonus is not just a +1 combat res, the attacking unit doubles it's attacks. A flank charge triples their attacks.
You'll find that the stat blocks are a bit generic, on the surface it looks like an elf, a dwarf and a human aren't all that different, and one block of elf spearmen looks identical to the next type of elf spearmen. To an extent that is true, but the small differences in KoW make a big difference when units are so close to identical. They also just put out a supplement book that includes rules for totally not-skaven, WoC, lizardmen, tomb kings, beastmen, brettonians and even halflings. Plus two new factions, one being mermaids the other some kind of cthulhu or shadow monster themed. So they have something to cover basically every army from WHFB now, plus a couple of extras.
Oh, and characters are important but in different ways, the inspiring presence is very important as are the small buffs from spells, but they are not really designed to be armed to the teeth, whole unit wiping out, spell slinging death machines.
Mantic do cater to the WHFB vets well, but they obviously don't want their entire game to be a complete copy and paste job. The example of wood elves is a bad one as wood elves don't exist in the rules to my knowledge, you simply have to play elves (which do cover them well in the rules) and then ally with the forces of nature army to take up to 25% of your force as trees. Since OP asking about Vampires and I play those two though I can give you a good idea of them.
Undead in KoW work more like they did in WHFB before TK and VCs were split. You have your necromancers, your big named bad necromancer, then vampires and wight kings, but also litches and mummies. They do not offer you a unit of skeletons and then you pay x/y/z points to arm them with swords/spears/bows, they simple have different rules entries for all three types of weapons. Gouls and zombies are there too, zombies even being able to go up to 60 strong which is rare among the armies I have looked at (I think skaven get access to it too), as well as both foot and mounted 'superior skeletons' (grave guard). They don't have crypt ghouls or the vargeists, but they have zombie trolls and werewolves. There isn't a black coach or Morits Engine equivalent, nor giant bats, so there are things missing. Part of what I love about the game those is the ability to mount two bats on the right sized bases for gargoyles from the demon list and ally them in, or call the Mortis Engine a dragon, with a magic shot representing the breath weapon.
I actually saw something like that recently at a tourney where a dwarf player didn't want to use a steam tank so he had a dwarf giant that breathed fire. IMOKoW allows for some amazing modeling opportunities like that.
*Edit*
I was wrong, Elves do have trees within them to properly represent both wood or high elves from the single list. So you have basic spearmen that act as simply spearmen for either wood or high depending on what models you use. There is then a Sea Guard with spears and bows, a palace guard as more elite spearmen, then kindred archers wich are again fairly generic for both. There is a unit of gladestalkers with a vanguard move (like in WHFB move before turn 1) and the ability to move through terrain with bows. There are then forest hunters and shamblers, neither are actual elves. One is regular infantry and has the same movement rules as the gladestalkers, the other also has the same terrain rules but is large infantry (40mm bases, ranks of 3). You have light cav, heavy cave, chariots, demi-dragon monstrous cav, a couple of warmachines, your basic heroes, including princes, kings, a dragon lord, standard bearers, mages, something called a master hunter that sounds very wood elfy, and then both a large infantry non-elf (tree) hero and a proper monstrous, full sized, tree hero.
**Second edit**
Just for fun I looked at the Forces of Nature too, and you could ally wood elves with centaurs, giant eagles, druids, elementals, and unicorns.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/12 04:40:09
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Kow is much simplified... to the point that most whfb players dislike it. People said that aos is too simplified, but at least there is more freedom and more options. Aos's fluff and gameplay/missions are actually fun once you play a couple games (most folks bashing it haven't played more than a game or two and know hardly anything about the complexity within the game).
I'd keep your army on square bases and then you can play whfb with friends, aos with friends or at you flgs, or kow if you really want to go that route.
I think it is unfair to say mostWHFB fans dislike it. In fact from where I am sitting it seems to be the place most WHFB refugees are setting up shop after the old world went poof.
Different things for different people I guess, KoW really captures the massed battle feel with the maneuvering blocks of troops and seeing hundreds of soldiers fed into the meatgrinder and then strips away the more magical and heroic aspects so that the game plays smooth, fast, and is all about the troops. AoS certainly has a lot more emphasis on the heroes and wizards while loosing out on the ranks of soldiers marching in formation (yes I am aware you can march them in formation but that's not the point).
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
In the latest audio drama, Nagash has declared Sigmar to be his enemy now because he's cranky that Sigmar steals the souls of the dead Sigmarines to restore them.
There have been several vampires mentioned now as well as a coven of shape changers.
Pretty neat stuff.
On kow I'm finding that overall GW fantasy groups have lost about 75% of their members since July, and a good half of those went over to Kings of War, while a chunk is trying out 9th age and the rest are waiting to see what happens and aren't doing anything.
From my own observations, the more tournament-oriented guys like Kings of War and at least locally the Kings of War group that has formed is 100% consisted of competitive league/tournament players.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/14 00:55:57
Depends on local meta. If your scene is heavily pick-up/competition based then KoW is probably your better bet. Ditto massed battle. AoS doesn't scale as well because units in AoS are more an organisational thing than the focus which is model based.
Obvs. 9th age et al are also options. But if you're willing to try with a like minded opponent for a few games until you get a feel for it, AoS played using scenarios is a total blast.
Either way, you haven't wasted your money on your army. It's just now you have to figure which system you want to use it for...
jonolikespie wrote: I think it is unfair to say mostWHFB fans dislike it. In fact from where I am sitting it seems to be the place most WHFB refugees are setting up shop after the old world went poof.
Around here it's all 9th age.
KoW flared a bit back in August-September but once 9th age betas started to roll people moved back to 9th. I still keep my basileans, and play from time to time, though.
After all it's a streamlined, more balanced 8th edition.
Unit names have changed (thanks to GW and their overzealous IP protection policy) but look beyond the names and all the armies and units are there.
auticus wrote: From my own observations, the more tournament-oriented guys like Kings of War and at least locally the Kings of War group that has formed is 100% consisted of competitive league/tournament players.
This is in no small part because the larger US GT scene voted almost unanimously to adopt KoW after 8E's demise ...
I'm keen to try KoW out, as simple as it seems, but I'm building a new army to do that, as none of my 8E armies really have enough troops. As for 9E, I feel like they've gone too far away from 8E, though I also have fewer beefs with that rules set than most.
RoperPG wrote:
Either way, you haven't wasted your money on your army. It's just now you have to figure which system you want to use it for...
And if you can write up a couple of lists, and persuade a gaming friend to give them a go once or twice, there are other fantasy battle games to try: Mayhem, Legions of Battle, Armies of Arcana, Shadow Storm (based on Hail Caesar), Fantasy Impetus, etc.
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / 
Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / 
Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / 
Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / 
Black Death 1500pts
necromancer, then vampires and wight kings, but also litches and mummies. They do not offer you a unit of skeletons and then you pay x/y/z points to arm them with swords/spears/bows, they simple have different rules entries for all three types of weapons. Gouls and zombies are there too, zombies even being able to go up to 60 strong which is rare among the armies I have looked at (I think skaven get access to it too), as well as both foot and mounted 'superior skeletons' (grave guard). They don't have crypt ghouls or the vargeists, but they have zombie trolls and werewolves. There isn't a black coach or Morits Engine equivalent, nor giant bats, so there are things missing. Part of what I love about the game those is the ability to mount two bats on the right sized bases for gargoyles from the demon list and ally them in, or call the Mortis Engine a dragon, with a magic shot representing the breath weapon.
