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Just got a big Eldar force in a trade.
I have no experience with them or against them (as nobody in our limited pool plays them) so I am looking for advice/guidance.
What is the best/most effective or popular loadout for a Wraithlord? I have, but they are in pieces so...
Like I said though, I am brand new. basically, I have 20 guradians, 10 Dire Avengers, 10 Striking Scorpions, 20 wraithguard (10 are are guard 10 are blades, but thinking on going all guard, but I am also looking for input on that), 3 Wraithlords, 2 wave serpents, a falcon, a fire prism, and one war walker.
Can't make any formations yet, just need a support battery and a vyper.
Flamers and Ghostglaive are obvious choices, but I'm considering going with a pair of Starcannons instead of Brightlances, though I wish they were strength 7 instead of 6.
Toofast wrote: The best use for a wraithlord is to sit on the shelf and collect dust. Spend the points on literally anything else.
Right. A Wraithlord is too slow and its shooting capabilities are limited.
The only marginal use I can see is to give him flamers and wait for some outflankers (hello Genestealers) to arrive.
Don't bother.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
The Guardian Battlehost you are going for, is in my opinion more friendly and fluffy than the Windrider host, but it is also still very capable.
Guardian Battlehost Tactics
Spoiler:
I would recommend running a minimum Vyper with either a Bright Lance or Two Shuriken Cannons. (Its cheap and effective)
For the War Walker I like having dual Scatter Lasers, it's got good cost efficiency then.
For the guardian squads pin the weapon platforms to use different guns, its really simple I have just done it myself, I would use any gun apart from Shuriken Cannon depending on the opponent.
(If you take Bright Lance on your Vyper I would take Bright Lances on the Guardians too, and that way you have a good amount of Lance shots focussing on one vehicle at a time before moving onto the next, Scatter Lasers are good for a lot of things due to volume of S6 shots, Starcannon is good if you need AP 2, EML I would only really take if I wasn't allowed to swap between different heavy weapons as it is kind of a jack of all trades master of none.)
Warlocks are good too in Guardian squads, using shrouded to give your guardians decent saves or just adding to the pool for your Farseer.
For the Farseer I roll just on Eldar table hoping for Eldritch Storm, if you get it just cast it every turn at the warp charge 4 version, Spirit Stones of Anath'Lan make this good but loses his invuln when using stones BUT if in the Vaul Battery is T7 and has guardian crew to sit in front and take the wounds. If you don't get Storm then all the other powers are good for buffing units.
For the Vaul's Wrath Battery I would take the full 3 Guns and put the Farseer of the formation in this to benefit from T7. As the guns on the kit are designed to be swapped in and out you can have whatever gun you want, I usually take shadow weavers, making the unit relatively low threat and cheaper compared to D-cannons witch will be a high threat ~300pt unit if you take a Warlock and put the Farseer in the unit. Stick them far forward in the centre of your deployment or even on the flanks to deter enemies with that strength D, covering as much of the table as you can without moving for the 24" range, and use the Warlocks Primaris Power to get shrouded to get 2+ cover in ruins.
Then running an Aspect host for your Dire Avengers and Scorpions, you could have two units of 5 Dire Avengers or 5 of the Scorpions and give them +BS either way, +WS if you are fighting armies where this will make a difference. A min squad of Fire Dragons in your Falcon is a good idea. Remember you need to take an Exarch in each squad for the Aspect Host.
Wraith Host
Spoiler:
You just need one Wraithknight for the Wraith Host, could have 5 Wraith Guard in each Wave Serpent, 10 Wraithblades on foot with your Spirit Seer with Battlefocus Charging up with Wraithlords and Shrouded if you need it. Though taking 10 Wraithblades on foot might be fun, I do not think it's efficient at all, however running your Spiritseer in the Wraithblades rolling on the Warlock table is a good idea because of all the close combat powers there, and they get to roll twice on it.
Fire Prism+Falcons:
Spoiler:
Fire Prism is the best general purpose unit in the book probably because of it's different firing modes. The benefit from taking more than one isn't that good, if I was to do it I would only take two for the ability to have a Strength 10 AP 1 Lance or a Strength 6 AP 2 Large Blast. Even then it's probably better to fire seperately.
Falcons are ok too, give them a Scatter laser and Shuriken Cannon for a lot of Fire power, 7 Strength 6 shots, 2 Strength 8 shots. If you take 3 they can deepstrike with no scatter, you take 1-2 Fire dragons 1-2 Dire avengers in there and you can drop in part of your opponents line, and wipe it out before they can even fight back. (Thats 21 Strength 7 Shots, 6 Strength 8 Shots AP2, PLUS meltas from your Fire dragons and Shuriken Shots from your Dire Avengers) However that's a lot of points in reserve, needing extra points for an Autarch to make it more viable. This is really fun but is a high cost, high risk, high reward strategy.
For upgrades Holo-fields are what I usually take, and usually Shuriken Cannons on vehicles.
Wraithlords not in a Wraith host
Spoiler:
For the other Wraithlords you can take 1-12 if you have your core choice. There was a guy the other day who had an idea of 5 Wraithlords and an Avatar, this sounds fun but don't know how effective it would be, they do provide 15 T8 wounds and 5 T6 wounds from the Avatar (The Avatar also gives a couple of buffs to them).
A Wraithlord with just a Ghostglaive and two flamers is cheap, the heavy weapon options are expensive, Scatter Lasers again are good all rounders, either taking 1 or 2 of them. (If you think about it the extra points for getting 4 extra S6 shots are worth it but you can get these cheaper for example on War Walkers). Having these run at the enemy is a better tactic with no heavy weapons and a ghostglaive and flamers.
Are these already all assembled? Are you planning on getting more on what you already have?
Also who are your main opponents and what points level will you be playing at?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/11 16:09:18
~500pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
Their weapon options are too expensive. Give them a couple of flamers and a ghostglaive, and call it good. They're not very good as part of a CAD - overpriced, not very threatening, slow, and deceptively fragile.
The Wraithlord is pretty good if you use it as part of a Wraithhost within the Warhost. That gives it a 6" battlefocus move every turn - making it mobile enough to get into close combat, where it wants to be. Infantry are an especially good target, since you have flamers to roast them with, and you're invulnerable to all infantry weapons. One nice feature of the wraithlord is that it's a character, so it can issue challenges to things like Nobs (and kill them before they can attack with something like a Power Klaw).
don't bother putting extra weapons on it. in my experience running two wraithlords with glaives and flamers for ~250 points on a flank is worth it.
Don't put them in a position they are going to get eaten by grav, or lascannons etc. s4 can't hurt them. I personally like running them with my windrider host. they auto run 6" so the first turn or 2 turns I am just booking 12" at the priority targets for them.
Grizzyzz wrote: don't bother putting extra weapons on it. in my experience running two wraithlords with glaives and flamers for ~250 points on a flank is worth it.
Don't put them in a position they are going to get eaten by grav, or lascannons etc. s4 can't hurt them. I personally like running them with my windrider host. they auto run 6" so the first turn or 2 turns I am just booking 12" at the priority targets for them.
How are you running two Wraithlords in a single Wraith host?
~500pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
It might be expensive, but I outfit mine with a Ghostglaive and a couple of Bright Lances. He shoots at vehicles or high value targets for a couple turns until he makes it into melee with something. Usually he does pretty good. He's expensive though, so he doesn't make it into every list.
When it comes to shoulder weapons, the less powerful weapons are 15 points whereas the powerful ones are only 20. Eldar Missile launchers are a ridiculous 30 though. So if you're going to give it shoulder weapons at ALL you might as well give it some Bright Lances. Star Cannons go better on Vypers and Scatter Lasers go better on just about anything else.
I would give it two flamers (way more effective than the catapults at nearly the same range, good for overwatch too), and a wraithglaive (looks soooooooooooo cool!).
For shoulder mounted weapons, they're really not that necessary, though it can be nice to just put out a bit more fire power. I would just use the gun that you think looks the best, if you want to go for one.
Unless you're playing in a competitive scene, he's a perfectly playable model, and he's far better looking than his big brother to boot!
Windrider Core + 2 wraith construct Aux + whatever else I want.
Someone mentioned that does not give battlefocus. That is correct. Only the wraithhost gives battlefocus.. But if your not bringing shoulder weapons.. that is a non factor. The warhost grants auto 6" run moves. Thats all you need.
Tho to be honest, I have stepped away from that altogether and run a CAD + "harlequin Falchios blade formation" now. way better for what I like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/11 18:08:33
You don't get battle focus unless in the wraith host
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait my bad, thats new to me. Thought you needed battlefocus
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy gak that makes them a lot better
Yeah, I need some clarification: I thought that the Wraithhost formation granted you Battle Focus, and then the Warhost detachment buffs the run distance to 6" instead of D6"? So that a Wraithlord who was simply taken as an auxiliary choice in the Warhost couldn't use Battle Focus?
EDIT: I get the point now: a melee-focused Wraithlord doesn't care about battlefocus, what matters is that they get a 6" run. So you don't need to go "all-in" on the wraithhost, you can just take wraithlords individually as auxiliaries, and they'll be able to move 12" every turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/11 18:22:32
EDIT: I get the point now: a melee-focused Wraithlord doesn't care about battlefocus, what matters is that they get a 6" run. So you don't need to go "all-in" on the wraithhost, you can just take wraithlords individually as auxiliaries, and they'll be able to move 12" every turn.
Exactly. No doubt battlefocus with auto run 6" in the wraithhost is good.. but i would say its more meant for the wraithgaurd.
First of all, CONGRATS ON USING A WRAITHLORD!! Nobody uses them, but the models are cool, and they're not bad. They're just overshadowed by their giant, grossly undercosted big brother.
I used mine (before I stopped playing my Eldar, because I like having friends) with flamers, Ghostglaive, and either Bright Lances or Starcannons. They are great, tough, mobile gun platforms.
Just for clarity here, people are calling a 100 and a bit point Monstrous Creature with strength and toughness 8, two free flamers and the option of decent weapons options that'll never take it more than 40 points more expensive for a set of guns "Bad".
It isn't. It's actually really good for what you get, it just comes in the most powerful codex so you can get smaller ones with strength D flamers piling out of a solid transport, or a bigger one that's 100 points undercosted and capable of dominating the field.
I run two in non bleeding edge games. I field both with sword, 2x scatter laser and flamers. They are doing good for me since they are about 8th on the priority list.
The 8 toughness is immune to str 4 and that proves rough in a variety of TAC situations.
Korlandril wrote: The Guardian Battlehost you are going for, is in my opinion more friendly and fluffy than the Windrider host, but it is also still very capable.
- Thanks for this. it makes sense, and I dont have top run out and buy models (for which I cannot guarantee my safety from wife <- great gal, but prudent so....)
Are these already all assembled? Are you planning on getting more on what you already have?
- They are "assembled", in the sense that they are built for "the most part". However there is some pretty nasty looking magnets (no holes drilled) glued on with an entire tube of superglue At any rate there is quite the project fixing and cleaning and getting things fixed. Also the tanks were caked with Iyanden Darksun. Literally... There was clumps of gross paint all over... thank God for Super Clean! Anyway, some is submerged at the moment, some is waiting and some is on the table.
- The answer to getting any more is Yes for sure! I need a Vyper and at least one Support Battery for the Battlehost.
Also who are your main opponents and what points level will you be playing at?
I've actually been having a lot of luck using my wraith lords lately. I personally split the difference on my lords' guns, giving one a lance and shuriken cannon combo and the other a starcannon and scatter laser combo in an effort to make them versatile. I do not advise doing this for competitive games, but then my wraith lords aren't really there for competitive purposes anyway. The flamers are going to be preferable to the shuriken catapults 99% of the time. That said, I often find myself being charged by things that flamers aren't all that effective against, so having an AP2 weapon somewhere in the loadout can be nice for overwatch purposes even if you probably shouldn't build around that. I happen to have the ancient pewter models so I sometimes run them with a flamer and shuripult each when the WYSIWYG bug bites me. The glaives are a steal at their points cost, not so much because of the strength boost as because of the mastercrafted rule.
To me, wraith lords are similar to dreadnaughts in that they're relatively hard to deliver, not great at shooting for the points cost, and yet make a solid bully unit due to their sheer durability. In a meta full of strength 6 and 7, they're surprisingly tough. They melt in the face of things like lascannons and krak missiles, but I don't run into such weapons all that often around here. Advance them through cover, and they become that much more annoying for your opponent to deal with (even if it does slow them down). Get them in melee with marines, and anything short of a thunderhammer of power fist will be wounding them on 6s or not at all.
They're also large enough and rarely fielded enough to make your opponent nervous and cause them to put an unreasonable amount of firepower into them. Which is fine as it means the rest of your army's hard targets (vehicles, for instance) aren't taking the hits.
Recently, I've been running an Elf'zilla style Iybraesil list that features a pair of wraith lords and an avatar. These units are normally frowned upon, but they work fairly well together. They can make your infantry (such as those guardian squads and avengers you mentioned) fearless thus allowing them to lay down ranged fire as they move up the table. The MCs generally manage to stand up to whatever gets thrown at them long enough to reach combat, and once they're there, they generally do some reasonable damage. The avatar's aura mixed with the strength boost from the ghost glaives also means that your wraith lords can insta-kill toughness five models on the charge, which is situationally nice.
They're really not "bad" units. They're just less over-the-top than some of our more notorious options. They also get hard-countered by certain things, but many of those things happen to be out of style at the moment, so... Woohoo!
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
In short, just give the Wraithlords 2 x Flamers, Ghostglaive.
Another option just appeared in the new FW book, Doom of Mymeara. Surprisingly, there is a new Core Formation in the book for Craftworld Eldar utilzing two Wraithblade Squads and a Wraithseer (Psychic Wraithlord that you can arm with a D-Cannon).
I originally posted the 5 Wraithlord idea about a week back and am revisiting it with this new Core Formation so I can actually run a full Wraith army (this assumes your local area utilizes FW). For a Craftworld Warhost, you need 1 Core and 1 Auxillary. You can take the Wraithseer/Wraithblades as a Core and then as many Wraithlords as Auxillary choices (you get 1-12 for these).
I'm waiting for my FW book to arrive to work exact points, but an idea of this concept at 1850:
Wraithseer, D-Cannon
2 x 5 Wraithblades (@ 500 pts)
6 x Wraithlords with 2 x Flamers, Ghostglaive (750 pts)
2 x Wraithknights with Sword, Scattershield (590 pts)
@ 1850 pts
Another option would be to run the Wraithseer/Blades as the core and the Wraith Host as the Auxillary. Two things come from this: (1) this is a Craftworld Warhost army and you get Matchless Agility as the Command Benefit (2) the Wraith Host gives models in that formation Battle Focus. You could convert one of your Wraithlords to be the Wraithseer and then utilize a second one for the Wraith Host mandatory Wraithlord.
For more flexibility, I'd likely drop down to 4 Wraithlords so I can look at other Craftworld: Eldar codex options, but this is the main gist of it. This gives your Wraithlords Matchless Agility for an auto 6" run move, which will be necessary for turn 1 and possibly turn 2. As you have three already, it may be something you would be interested in giving it a look. However, I will add a caveat: If you play a lot of Maelstrom of War missions, this entire concept is likely a bad concept as MSU and mobility are pretty much required to play those missions. I do not generally play those, which is why I am looking at such a low model count army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/12 08:33:10
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
@Sarigar: For the Core selection with Wraithblades, you need three units. There is a formation with a Wraithseer and 1-3 units of Wraithblades, but that's a Command choice.
Also, the Wraithseer with the load-out you have there is 245 points.
An optional build could be;
Pale Courts Battlehost (Tomb-ship of Fallen Heroes, Aspect Lord-shrine) - 530
Wraithseer w/ d-cannon
3x3 Shining Spears w/ exarch, star lance
+as many Wraith constructs you can fit.
The Shining Spears give a sort of honour guard feel (imo) and provide some much needed mobility.
"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain.
Thanks for pointing that out. I am waiting on my book to arrive and going off of what folks are posting online; guess folks are putting out incorrect information and I belittle it. Good learning lesson.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
At any rate there is quite the project fixing and cleaning and getting things fixed. Also the tanks were caked with Iyanden Darksun. Literally... There was clumps of gross paint all over... thank God for Super Clean! Anyway, some is submerged at the moment, some is waiting and some is on the table.
8,000 pts and counting
1,000 points, now painting.