Helldrake

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**mrhappyface**

Lets say that the next csm codex nerfs the helldrake. No more it will not die, no more daemon, no more daemonforge and the bailflamer now costs 20 points and it is given a regular autocannon rather than the hades.
Seems pretty bad?

My question would be, would you be happy to lose all of this for the option to give the helldrake a daemon mark of nurgle for 20pts?

**Valkyrie**

So you want to remove all those options, and let it take MoN for 20pts? What's the point?

**mrhappyface**

2. Plus. Cover. Save.

**curran12**

If you jink. Which means you never use the baleflamer, and snap shot the autocannon. I guess if you want a 2+ cover save that badly and are content with doing next to no damage for a lot of points, okay.

**JamesY**

You wouldn't get a 2+, you removed the daemon rule.

**KhorneontheCobb**

Yeah- by removing the daemon rule it cannot be a daemon of nurgle, thus cannot get 2+ jink from shrouded... Plus you made it suck even more and it's useless when jinking. Flyers can fire up to 4 weapons but ours can only vector strike and fire a single weapon... Funny how one of the worst fliers in the game is one of our best units... That's how bad our codex sucks, and you want to nerf it further for a useless save???
If GW did that I would be extremely disappointed... I love playing chaos and have accepted that our codex will never again be as good as loyalists- but that type of nerfing would just be insulting.

**raverrn**

For what reason?

**Valkyrie**

mrhappyface wrote:
2. Plus. Cover. Save.

At the cost of Snap-Shooting/not firing at all, a change which wouldn't even work since you removed the Daemon rule.

Try. Harder. Next. Time.

**HoundsofDemos**

You want to severely nerf one of chaos marines few remaining good units. There codex is bad enough as is with out gutting the hell turkey, so no horrible suggestion.

**Vineheart01**

I would gladly let you do this and force a Jink every turn, not even paying attention once i do so because that bird will literally never hurt me.

Jinking is bad. You should never Jink with anything unless youre afraid the weapons hitting you might explode you (high AP or really high RoF) because it basically removes that model from the game for a turn, unless you got some baller snapshooting going on.

**MagicJuggler**

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/673323.page

While discussing Heldrakes...

**koooaei**

That'd be a nerf. Heldrakes allready have troubles in this edition.

**Grimskul**

That'd be insane. Heldrakes have fallen quite far from their initial lofty perch as predator of the skies since the changes to their loss of 360 no scope baleflamer of death. The daemon rule let them get by through a lot of AA without having to jink so they could keep firing their baleflamer, take that away and its just a flying piece of overpriced junk that can vector strike every once in a while.

**Slayer-Fan123**

If they had 180 degrees for the Baleflamer, that'd be an excellent fix first of all...