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The marketing style is a bit campy, but I have to admit that it's fun to read through your posts. What would make me more excited to see your product is some concept art and maybe some fluff. As you've said, renders can be deceiving, but effective concept art could be used to convey the aesthetic and quality of the miniatures without necessarily creating unrealistic expectations. I'm eager to see what you've come up with so far, and I'm hoping that you'll keep us updated as you keep working.

 MindwormGames wrote:
We're just curious, but do we have any nosy fethers yet?

You know who you are.

Pics or it didn't happen. Wait... what?

YouIdiotKid - For fluff, we invite you to take a gander at

WHEN YOUR LUCK RUNS OUT: A True Account of Troy Hatcher, Famous Outlaw of the West, Had Firsthand from a Survivor of the Renowned Caine County Massacre and Bank Robbery

You might also have fun jawin' with Jamie.

He's a moron, but you can always trust him to be an idiot. As Mr. Payton Cole says, "Jamie is the only man I trust in Devil's Perch. He's too damn stupid to cheat you on purpose."

And here's some miniatures, as promised. Forgive the picture quality, Benson was too lazy to break out the photo booth.





And here's a comparison shot:



From left to right - Reaper, Knuckleduster, Wyrd, Exiles, Exiles, Black Scorpion, Hasslefree, Great Escape Games

Oh dear, well that wasn't worth the wait.

I think the model on the left looks pretty sweet, personally. Not necessarily my genre but looks well done from here!

The pose on the right model is a little lacking, but the sculpt looks fine. Would be interesting to see with a light coat of primer.

Is that guy one-armed or did he stick the other arm behind his back or something?

 BrookM wrote:
Is that guy one-armed or did he stick the other arm behind his back or something?

That's Father Mallory. He's got one arm. His sleeve is pinned to the front of his coat, which is how folks with one arm used to do it.

Mallory is being reprinted after some tweaks to the sculpt.


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 RiTides wrote:
Would be interesting to see with a light coat of primer.

Absolutely! We are working on an inking method, which is really what you need when photographing bare metal models.

Photography is on that long list of skills one needs to perfect when operating a table top game company. It is crazy how many skills you need to pick up, especially when you are doing most everything in house.

We certainly haven't perfected our photography yet. First, manufacture a quality product, then take good pictures of it .

You could always check in with Sally from Hasslefree, she's done a tutorial before on how to best prep unpainted metals for photography using various washes and whatnot.

I'm all about the old/weird west so I'm most likely in for the minis at least but I think your coming in a little too tall. If your taller than Black Scorpion (which are already much taller than Artizan, Foundry & a lot of other popular old west lines) I think you could come down a few MM. Wouldn't keep me away all together but would probably make me more of a cherry picker.

 Goon3423 wrote:
I'm all about the old/weird west so I'm most likely in for the minis at least but I think your coming in a little too tall. If your taller than Black Scorpion (which are already much taller than Artizan, Foundry & a lot of other popular old west lines) I think you could come down a few MM. Wouldn't keep me away all together but would probably make me more of a cherry picker.

Thanks for the feedback! Scale/size/proportion is always a tough question. But I think we are about on par with what you are looking for. Mallory is a particularly tall model for our range. Charlotte is on the shorter end. That gives you a natural variability right around the size you are talking about.

Now, our models are more true to scale than many of the other Wild West models on the market, so they are going to look a little bit different, and they will probably feel a little shorter than they actually are. Plus, the models will come on full round integral bases that pop right into the top of a round lipped base. You can always leave them off of a round lipped base to make them seem a little shorter on the table top.

That said, we think they gel pretty well on the table. Obviously, our models will look great together, but we anticipate that folks will want to use models from other manufacturers when playing Exiles, whether it's because you want to make your own unique character, or write your own scenarios.

Using models from other manufacturers is something that we encourage. We have even developed game rules that you will be able to use with products from other manufacturers, and of course these will be available for free download.

There are so many great products out in the market today that you shouldn't feel constrained about using products from a variety of manufacturers in your games!

I appreciate the fact that the pistol is pretty close to in scale with the person holding it. Guns the size of a thigh are something I want to see the industry get away from.

Both seem to be faIdly interesting models.

@Mindstorm
We'll get more info on the game in January you said?

 Wehrkind wrote:
I appreciate the fact that the pistol is pretty close to in scale with the person holding it. Guns the size of a thigh are something I want to see the industry get away from.

That's great to hear, because we worked very hard on this.

Mallory's gun is actually ginormous, but you're dealing with a lot of practical considerations when it comes to making a table top gaming model. We tried our double best to get the guns down to the smallest possible size that was still large enough to be manufactured, to hold up against rough handling, and to have enough details to identify the firearm.

Marco did a great job! If we were being picky, the grip is too large, but at some point you have to stop sweating the small stuff.


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 Sinful Hero wrote:
Both seem to be faIdly interesting models.

@Mindstorm
We'll get more info on the game in January you said?

Yea, lots more info in January. December is sort of a 'soft release' month. We are a month off from our projected social media launch (it was a rough year), and we are informed that December is not a particularly active time when it comes to the internets. Plus, we need to work out the kinks...like making sure Benson doesn't post crummy workbench photos...

There's a few more marketing spiel posts to go up this month, some LOLs Christmas images, and such like. January and onward will be comparatively bustling with content.

In terms of the game, we're gonna ease y'all into it, like a latex gimp suit (we prefer corn starch). We will have some gameplay videos up once we get the hang of editing videos, and for those of you who like reading gak we will be walking you through the various features of the actual game in a series of TLDR blog posts.

Play testing has been going very well, which is a huge relief because the game is...well...it is atypical. The game has been in development for a long time now, but feedback has been consistently positive for long enough that we are all sleeping a great deal better!

We are still nibbling around the edges of the rules, tweaking prices, point costs, jimmying the odd skill, but the fundamentals have proven to be resoundingly solid!

 MindwormGames wrote:
Plus, the models will come on full round integral bases that pop right into the top of a round lipped base. You can always leave them off of a round lipped base to make them seem a little shorter on the table top.

I sincerely hope you reconsider integral bases. Your "marketing " (which puts me off) notwithstanding,the models DO look like something I would be interested in. Integral bases will completely kill that interest for me.

Just my two cents.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 MindwormGames wrote:
Plus, the models will come on full round integral bases that pop right into the top of a round lipped base. You can always leave them off of a round lipped base to make them seem a little shorter on the table top.

I sincerely hope you reconsider integral bases. Your "marketing " (which puts me off) notwithstanding,the models DO look like something I would be interested in. Integral bases will completely kill that interest for me.

Just my two cents.

~Eric

We very much appreciate that Eric. We are going to do our level best to put these babies on full size integral bases.

BUT, the great thing about manufacturing in house is that we can be very flexible. We can make production molds without integral bases, and provide that as an option if there's enough interest in it. Heck, it's cheaper to produce too!

And even if you are the only one who wants them babies without integral bases, you ask us real nice and we might just hook you up anyway . It never hurts to make more molds, and we have 100 blanks calling our name!

Yea, bases attached to feet can be a real problem. We were talking/arguing about this in another thread, and if there are concerns about attaching the model to a base securely, as is often the case with little metal feet, the best bet might be to put a little base under each foot, such that they don't touch each other. That way there is a bigger connection point but you can remove the base without buggering up the ankles/legs in the process.

I'd have to go no on the integral bases as well, they're a pain to remove and I hate having to work around them. Slotta bases all the way (or the tabs or what have you).

Is that a card in the woman's hand?

I like the looks of those figures, the one-armed guy's pinned sleeve is a nice detail. Could always use more unconventional humans in my Wreck-Age games.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Is that a card in the woman's hand?

I like the looks of those figures, the one-armed guy's pinned sleeve is a nice detail. Could always use more unconventional humans in my Wreck-Age games.

I think it's a knife.

 Goon3423 wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Is that a card in the woman's hand?

I like the looks of those figures, the one-armed guy's pinned sleeve is a nice detail. Could always use more unconventional humans in my Wreck-Age games.

I think it's a knife.

Affirmative. It's actually a pair of throwing knives. Hard to see from that angle, but they came out well, despite being so dainty.

The Exiles branding iron was a resounding success!

Do you have any info you'd be willing to share on how you're going to sell your miniatures?

Starter sets of X miniatures, singles, something else? I assume with the wooden boxes multiple figures per box.

Can you share anything about the price range?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Do you have any info you'd be willing to share on how you're going to sell your miniatures?

Starter sets of X miniatures, singles, something else? I assume with the wooden boxes multiple figures per box.

Can you share anything about the price range?

We have tons of info we are willing to share!

We have several scheduled posts that answer all of your questions in more detail than you probably want . Except for prices. We have planned prices, but if Mars saw us posting prices it would be a very scary Christmas!

There's practical reasons for that, of course. We don't want to pull the rug out from under you, and there are a lot of things that could change between now and August. That said, we think you'll find that you get a lot of cool stuff, and plenty of gameplay value, in each of our products.

We are on the road today, but we will give you a little more detail on product format later tonight.


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Here's a brief overview of the product format:

That box in my earlier post is primarily for our Persona Packs.

A Persona Pack gives you all the materials you need to play a character of a particular Persona, which is sorta like a character class. You get two minis representing iconic characters. Father Mallory up there is one of our Doctors, and Charlotte is one of our Trappers.

You also get a gakload of cards: Character and Sidekick cards for both characters, quick reference character sheets, a passel of item cards, and cards with rules for special Persona skills. Lastly, you get a bunch of wooden tokens. All boxed up in a wooden box with internal dividers and plenty of room for extra stuff.

The other major product type is the Campaign Set.

A Campaign Set comes with all of the bs you need to play a predesigned campaign featuring a particular bundle of bad guys. For example, our first campaign features Troy Hatcher and the Scarbelly Gang.

You get minis for your bad guys. Boss (Troy Hatcher), Henchmen ("Big Pisser" Johnson and "Ol' One-eye" Johnson), and five Outlaw Toadies. You get stat cards for all of those folks, special rules cards, cards for any special scenario rules that come up during the campaign, new item cards, and a bunch of wooden tokens. Lastly, you get a Dime Novel featuring some nifty fluff and rules for the campaign scenarios.

We will also have Encounter Packs which modify your scenarios, such as the Filthy Whores, Dr. Dreyfus Shipman (a new Outlaw Boss), or Ol' Efrim, the mythical one-eyed grizzly.

We will be offering a Starter Set that will include the Troy Hatcher and the Scarbelly campaign, plus four stripped down Persona Packs. You'll get four characters and enough materials to get them going on the table (1 Gunslinger, 1 Trapper, 1 Doctor, and 1 Gentleman). Consequently, the set starter will allow up to five players, and of course you can always just download the cards you want and use whatever models you like if you want to have a bigger game.

Now, that’s an interesting question, friend. Naw, I don’t rightly know how Devil’s Perch come to get the name. And I ought to knowed ‘cause I been in these parts since goddamn creation!

Yessir, I prolly been here the damn longest outta anybody around, except maybe ol’ Mr. Cole…excuse me, Governor Cole, Governor Montgomery Cole, to be exact. Ya see, this whole place used to be a penal logging camp for the Territorial Government, which was owned by Montgomery Cole at the time, lock, stock, and barrel. The gov'ment, that is. All this used to be Federal land till Montgomery bought it up and made it over into an organized territory. But that's another story.



What was I sayin'? Oh, yea, that's right. Cole, Montgomery Cole that is, hired me in my shirtsleeves to run the camp’s provisions. There weren't much out here back then 'sides tents and daub cabins. You see where that feller yonder is havin' his way with a lady? No, no, the other one. He's fethin' right on the spot where the prisoners used to line up fer their whiskey ration.

It was rough livin’ then, and you can be damn sure 'bout that. Weren't so nice as it is now, what with the gold and the railroad and all. Weren't a woman for fifty miles neither!

Anyway, the Gov’nor weren't makin' much money off the camp, even with all the boys workin' real cheap, as it were. Wasn't too many folks about as needed lumber, and it all had to be took out by freight. It were ‘bout a year on when the Gov’nor’s cousin, Payton, come out west lookin’ fer a bill o’ goods. Monty figured he'd get shed o' the aggravation and sold Payton a contract to run the camp for the gov’ment.



Mr. Payton was good enough to keep me on to run the company store. It was simple enough work 'cause everythin’ were done with vouchers back then. The men got paid in vouchers, and I sold eveythin’ on vouchers too, so it were real easy to keep accounts squared up. We only had so many o’ them paper vouchers, you know, and they went ‘round and ‘round and back again, sometimes more'n once a day. I remember there was one o' them vouchers with a picture of a pecker drawed on. There was one time that lil' pecker voucher was good for a plug o’ tobacco, a pot o' hot coffee, and a dram o’ whiskey, all 'fore supper time!

But listen to me jawin’ on… Come on back later and I’ll tells you what happened when Payton bought the whole place and in...incor...incorp'ated, as it were. They turned out all the prisoners at the time, and I remember Mr. Devereux had to hang a few fellers…maybe that’s where the name come from.

This here's my favorite true story o' Troy Hatcher, you knows, the famous outlaw. Demond only puts it at six killed in the Cain County robbery, but the Simpson Brothers number a baker's dozen among the dead, includin' the widow Shipman and her baby girl. They got's the right of it, if you ask me.

They say Troy took a bullet in his wrist cuttin' his way outta that scrape, and it's a proved fact he left his nephew Frankie Lawson dead in the street. Got clean away with more'n two thousand in cash, though I'll call you liar if you say he taken any man's watch.



If Judge Clarkson hadn't been so fired up 'bout Hatcher, wouldn't have been no massacre. Troy's bullets only took the laws, and they had it commin'. More'n a dozen dead and they lay it all at Hatcher's feet like they aint got no part in it.

Demond is a great one for dressing up his accounts, but you can bet yer boots they come from eyewitness statements. Read this'n here and you can tell it weren't Hatcher filled that bank full o' corpses.

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 Henry wrote:

And dear god ... did you really use "Rules are made to be broken" as a slogan? Please tell me that was an attempt at some form of irony. You can't have seriously thought that that would make you sound 'edgy'.

We've been sitting around over the holidays drinking egg nog and chatting about Henry's comment here, and we figured Henry deserves a response.

You're damn right, Henry! Rules are meant to be broken.

Rules provide a framework that facilitates a gameplay experience. In our view, rules should serve that experience, and when they don't, you should totally break them.

Some folks might say that if you have to break the rules then the rules are poorly written, and that may be true when you have to create new rules to fix problems or patch holes in a ruleset. But that's not what we are talking about when we say 'rules are meant to be broken'.

What we mean when we say that rules are meant to be broken is that gameplay experience should have priority over rigid adherence to the rules as written. In other words, we believe that playing games is about having fun, not about following the rules.

In Exiles, we not only encourage players to break the rules, we expect players to break the rules on a regular basis.

This doesn't mean that we can't write a tight ruleset, far from it. We think Exiles is a fantastic and well-written set of rules.

Like many well-designed games, Exiles has a very particular order of operations, and for very important reasons. But rigid adherence to this order of operations just because 'it's the rules' is stupid, especially when doing so gets in the way of fun and convenience.

In Exiles, we created a flexible system of simultaneous resolution that gives you the freedom to break the rules in the interest of having a fun, fast game. Gale force Nine does the same thing in one of their flagship products, Firefly: The Game, one of our very favorite board games.

It is important for Exiles players to understand the order of operations, not so you can properly execute it every single game turn, but so you know when to stick to it, and when to go ahead and get on with what you are doing.

So you could say, Henry, that the rules have been carefully, explicitly designed so that you can break them without breaking the game.

You need five basic elements to spin cast metal miniatures:

Rubber
Metal
Heat
Pressure
Centrifugal Force



I have a bad feeling about this...

You need rubber to create your mold cavities, and metal to fill those cavities. Heat and pressure makes your mold. Pressure, heat, and centrifugal force allows you to get your metal into the mold cavities.

Most tabletop games miniatures are made with pewter and organic rubber molds.


Your basic organic rubber mold blank. They smell lovely, especially when you cook 'em!

Rubber mold blanks are placed into a frame that maintains the shape of the mold and allows you to apply heat and pressure. The rubber melts, flows around the miniatures, and then hardens. A layer of mold release keeps the two halves from sticking together so you can pull the mold apart and remove your casts.


The rubber starts out fairly pliable, so if you're feeling lazy you can cram a mini right into it!

A hole in the top half of the mold allows you to pour molten metal into the mold while it is being spun, and the centrifugal force of the spinning causes the molten metal to flow from the center of the mold into the cavities. As the metal cools, it solidifies, and you have new miniatures.


Yea, put it in my hole, baby! Fill me up with your hot, molten...that's it, I'm out.

That’s basically it. You can get a lot of fancy equipment to do all of that, but you can also get it done with most anything that can apply the appropriate forces. You need about 2,000 pounds of pressure on a mold and 250-350 degrees Fahrenheit to cook it properly. Your pewter needs to be at about 500 degrees for casting, the mold should have anywhere from 10 to 30 pounds of pressure on it to keep the two halves from separating, and it needs to spin at upwards of 500 RPMs.


This lovely hunk of metal maintains the shape of your mold whilst it's being squished and melted.

Josh Qualtieri (ZombieSmith Studios), for example, scratch built his first spin caster out of old washing machine parts, and vulcanized molds in his oven with a scrap metal frame and some clamps. That said, $3,000 will get you a second hand professional setup, you can get a spiffy new one for as little as $6,000, and you can drop more than $10,000 on a high-end basic setup if you've got way more money than you need.


Mold goes into the caster, plate goes on top, piston presses it together, and the electric motor spins it real fast. It's basically rocket science.

Over the next few months we will walk you through the spin casting process end to end, in more detail that you probably give a gak about. We’ll have plenty videos as well, for those of you who prefer to watch crap on Youtube. But the new computer isn’t in yet, and I don’t have time to wait 6 hours for a video to render on my laptop, so you've gotta wait, okay.


For all you sick fetishists, this is what she looks like on the inside!

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How it's made: belligerent edition!

That's pretty neat you're showing you're showing your workflow to interested parties. Also neat that your models are made - literally - in house.

Nice little mini tutorial! Thanks for posting that up guys!

maceria wrote:
How it's made: belligerent edition!

That's pretty neat you're showing you're showing your workflow to interested parties. Also neat that your models are made - literally - in house.

It's always something we were interesting in seeing, and of course we became so interested in it that we just hauled off and started doing it ourselves!

We also feel that it is important to share skills and experience with the community. We got plenty of help when we were first starting out, and lots of help from Josh (which is why we love to shamelessly plug ZombieSmith!).

But it was hard to find good resources, and we want to do our level best to provide a comprehensive, easily-accessible set of resources for anyone interested in learning more about the way miniatures are made, or those looking to start producing their own models. And of course we are always available to chat. Hell, if you're in the NOLA area, we'll be happy to walk you through our workshop!

The workshop is, indeed, litterally at Benson's house, but it's in a detached garage, which is critical. Benson burns himself enough that we all felt his wife and kids would feel safer with the dangerous equipment under a different roof.

That was really excellent, thank you very much for sharing it!