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 Las wrote:

Thimn wrote:
The more I think about 40k, the more I think the largest problem is no set standard game rules. I'm happy Las your city is having success, mine imploded. Pick up games have died off, its all prearranged and never shall the various groups interact. There is outright scorn being levied against some groups for wanting to use LOW or by the book rules. It just silly that what was once a large tournament community has become a Gamers Wastleand of survivors of the 40k fallout.

Meanwhile Dropzone is something all the groups are coming together to play. So clearly the people can play together, but everyone has different visions of 40k. That's a big problem that I see for the success of the game.

That sucks to hear. I think that's part of it though, many game groups are still very insular and not ready to compromise in order to widen their avilable player group. That certainly was the case here until the right people got together. I feel like it's either the shift happens or people get fed up with factionalism and move to different games.

You can always form your own game group. It's not very hard to organize, and all you need is one person with a nice attic/basement, a supportive independent, or GW store, if it's 40k/AoS. Maybe I'm just lucky because of the nature of our city, but rarely a month goes by without a stranger in an FLGS asking if I want to join a group or start a group.

I know that private or semi-privat4e gaming groups aren't for everyone, but to me, it's just infinitely better than the pickup scene. It might be more predictable, but win, lose, or draw, you never get a bad game. Also, with how long 40k takes, I don't get that many games in a year in anyhow, so it's not like it actually ever feels repetitive.

 Las wrote:

Yeah, I was being snippy because it's tiring having everything twisted back to how much GW sucks regardless of context. Same as my comment it may not have been intentional, but still.

No more tiring than hearing people praise every failing of GW and 40k.

You can always form your own game group. It's not very hard to organize, and all you need is one person with a nice attic/basement, a supportive independent, or GW store, if it's 40k/AoS.

I wouldn't call easy to organize something that requires owning an an attic/basement or a whole FLGS.

 vipoid wrote:

 Las wrote:

Yeah, I was being snippy because it's tiring having everything twisted back to how much GW sucks regardless of context. Same as my comment it may not have been intentional, but still.

No more tiring than hearing people praise every failing of GW and 40k.

Again, I was discussing a very specific thing I've noticed in how some gaming communities have adapted in a way that correlates with the changing nature of the game. Does everything always have to be dragged into a "duck/rabbit season" shouting match?

Well it isn't realy the gamers foult that GW does stuff wrong or does bad stuff. How am I or community in my city responsible for the fact that GW killed 3 out of 4 shops in it, by a combination of not letting them sell stuff people want, forcing them to buy stuff that will never sell and forcing them to sign up that they will always buy their stuff from GW directly and never from germany, and that they will never under cut GW price range. And then being late with shipment for about 2-3 weeks everytime something new comes out.

 Talys wrote:

 Las wrote:

Thimn wrote:
The more I think about 40k, the more I think the largest problem is no set standard game rules. I'm happy Las your city is having success, mine imploded. Pick up games have died off, its all prearranged and never shall the various groups interact. There is outright scorn being levied against some groups for wanting to use LOW or by the book rules. It just silly that what was once a large tournament community has become a Gamers Wastleand of survivors of the 40k fallout.

Meanwhile Dropzone is something all the groups are coming together to play. So clearly the people can play together, but everyone has different visions of 40k. That's a big problem that I see for the success of the game.

That sucks to hear. I think that's part of it though, many game groups are still very insular and not ready to compromise in order to widen their avilable player group. That certainly was the case here until the right people got together. I feel like it's either the shift happens or people get fed up with factionalism and move to different games.

You can always form your own game group. It's not very hard to organize, and all you need is one person with a nice attic/basement, a supportive independent, or GW store, if it's 40k/AoS. Maybe I'm just lucky because of the nature of our city, but rarely a month goes by without a stranger in an FLGS asking if I want to join a group or start a group.

I know that private or semi-privat4e gaming groups aren't for everyone, but to me, it's just infinitely better than the pickup scene. It might be more predictable, but win, lose, or draw, you never get a bad game. Also, with how long 40k takes, I don't get that many games in a year in anyhow, so it's not like it actually ever feels repetitive.

That is the problem, we have to many groups and I lead one of them. People in the other groups prefer to play the game with a different ruleset than we do, in regards to 40k. We have about 7 clubs that I'm aware of and they all do it differently. The lack of a common ruleset that is specific in what's allowed and relatively balanced has deeply fragmented my area.

Like I said, the groups play other games together, just not 40k.

40k.. My experience in the last year.

So this is my experience only. I do not know if 40k is dieing or just waning. I know I used to attend all the local RTT's in a fairly large area. I would travel to most RTT's in the Omaha,NB area all the way to the Minneapolis,MN area. I own 3 40k armies, 2 of witch are well over 6K points each, SoB and Crimson Fists. I would attend a couple of the regional GTs in the midwest also.

But..... This year several of my favorite podcasts have ended. This was not new as I have hobbied through Dice Like Thunder, and 40k Radio ending. But Independent Characters and 11th Company ending was a real blow to my hobby. I used to only paint to podcasts.... No podcasts, no painting. My Hobbying took a huge hit painting wise. Nothing has filled the gaps for these podcasts for me..

Codex releases has also killed my motivation. For some reason with so much stuff coming out, my eyes have just glazed over and somewhere I stopped caring about the new and shiny. I used to love getting the white dwarf and looking for what the new release would be in 4-5 months.... and I would love reading Faeit to see the rumors. Now I can not tell you the last time I visited his site. My collection of WD are sitting idle, not collecting new issues, never to be a complete collection again. There is just too much new rules and models. Their is no time to plan an army and update it slowly any more. Now I have to look at every release to see if I should use it for my army as a detachment. Just too much.

Then there are the other new games. The new hotness. I picked up x-wing but didn't really get into it. Not many play it in rural Iowa. Untill I taught my son how to play last month, it was dead on my shelf. Now he has his cousin hooked and I'm collecting several forces to play with. Then their was Bolt Action...... The game 40k should be. I love this game. the dice mechanic to all the armies being very similar in power. This game has scene steady increases in the player base and alot of the new players are coming from 40k and fantasy. I think this is why 30k is gaining popularity too is the forces are similar in power. All my Bolt Action games have been coming down to the last turn, and this makes the game exciting and fun. I don't have to worry about the power level of my army like i do with 40k.

Terrain... Funny thing happened as I started playing alot of Bolt Action, I started making tons of terrain for more realistic boards. And it was fun... I will have spent more on terrain and spent more time making terrain this year than on my armies.

So is 40k dieing? Yes it died some since I have not painted a single 40k miniature this year. I have not attended a RTT or GT this year. I have not bought any 40k figures or terrain for 40k boards this year. Is it permanent....? I don't know. I have not sold my armies or terrain. I look at tournaments and think "that would be fun". Heck this is the first time for 4-5 months I have been on Dakka.. I don't think I'm the only one this has happened too either.

Bartali wrote:
I think what we're seeing at the moment is the impact of the Apocaypsation of 40K filtering through to the pick up games at clubs and shops
While the sandbox nature of 40K (and AoS) works fine for the basement gamer, it doesn't work very well for pick up games. Interestingly the games that do appear to be gaining traction are those that try to embrace pick up games via organised play.

The thing with GW that always baffles me is that it often seems to actively want to push different types of gamer away from it's games - first the tournament player, now the pick up gamer.
I wonder if GW knows it's market well enough that it thinks it can sustain itself with the basement gamers and collectors.

This sums it up nicely. Exalted!
We have the tournament players and the pickup gamers on one hand and the basement gamers on the other hand.
GW's policy seems to push painters, collectors, and basement gamers while it leaves tournament and pickup gamers behind.

 Talys wrote:

 Las wrote:

Thimn wrote:
The more I think about 40k, the more I think the largest problem is no set standard game rules. I'm happy Las your city is having success, mine imploded. Pick up games have died off, its all prearranged and never shall the various groups interact. There is outright scorn being levied against some groups for wanting to use LOW or by the book rules. It just silly that what was once a large tournament community has become a Gamers Wastleand of survivors of the 40k fallout.

Meanwhile Dropzone is something all the groups are coming together to play. So clearly the people can play together, but everyone has different visions of 40k. That's a big problem that I see for the success of the game.

That sucks to hear. I think that's part of it though, many game groups are still very insular and not ready to compromise in order to widen their avilable player group. That certainly was the case here until the right people got together. I feel like it's either the shift happens or people get fed up with factionalism and move to different games.

You can always form your own game group. It's not very hard to organize, and all you need is one person with a nice attic/basement, a supportive independent, or GW store, if it's 40k/AoS. Maybe I'm just lucky because of the nature of our city, but rarely a month goes by without a stranger in an FLGS asking if I want to join a group or start a group.

I know that private or semi-privat4e gaming groups aren't for everyone, but to me, it's just infinitely better than the pickup scene. It might be more predictable, but win, lose, or draw, you never get a bad game. Also, with how long 40k takes, I don't get that many games in a year in anyhow, so it's not like it actually ever feels repetitive.

I play in a 'kitchen table' group. We all grew up with 80s D&D, so we're probably close to the Jervis mindset. It's good fun with friends, and once you've agreed the ruleset there's generally zero issues.
However we only tend to play every 2-3 months, and we generally tend to use the same army each time. We're not exactly driving sales for GW.

My pick up game of choice is currently Bolt Action and that's getting the majority of my hobby £'s. Looking forward to getting back into club leagues and maybe the odd tournament

Well, it appears that our gaming group is tired of tourneys and apo games atm.
Tomorrow, we'l play a new format that we haven't played yet: 2 vs. 2, 3000 pts each player, i.e., 6000 pts each side.
With 12 players this will be quite an interesting ''event''.
I'll play WE traitor legion led by Angron and my buddy plays traitor Guard.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Bartali wrote:
I think what we're seeing at the moment is the impact of the Apocaypsation of 40K filtering through to the pick up games at clubs and shops
While the sandbox nature of 40K (and AoS) works fine for the basement gamer, it doesn't work very well for pick up games. Interestingly the games that do appear to be gaining traction are those that try to embrace pick up games via organised play.

The thing with GW that always baffles me is that it often seems to actively want to push different types of gamer away from it's games - first the tournament player, now the pick up gamer.
I wonder if GW knows it's market well enough that it thinks it can sustain itself with the basement gamers and collectors.

This sums it up nicely. Exalted!
We have the tournament players and the pickup gamers on one hand and the basement gamers on the other hand.
GW's policy seems to push painters, collectors, and basement gamers while it leaves tournament and pickup gamers behind.

Which is silly because you can (and should!) appeal to both groups simultaneously. The miniatures themselves appeal to the collectors/painters. A good set of rules would appeal to everybody because things become more balanced and fair (tournament and pickup gamers like this) but easily expandable (the basement gamers like this). The breadth and depth of the background material lends itself to publishing campaign supplements that push the "narrative" gaming style (basement gamers like this, even some pickup gamers or tournament gamers might). But it all falls back on having a solid, balanced set of core rules and push the game as more than a "social experiment" involving pushing figures around and rolling lots of dice.

 vipoid wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
And no matter what GW says, without the game, the models are worthless.

I only wish GW would get that.

Amen.
What makes the models exciting is not just their details, it is the thought of what they do in the game.
The pricing for these models cannot be justified without a game context for the casual user.
It has been demonstrated that some really like the esthetic of the models.
There is an exception to every rule the crux of the matter is: are they in the minority?
That is what will determine if "40k is dying".
If the OP was named "Is 40k as a game dying?" according to GW it already is.

Maybe gw will give up on rules and let someone else do them.

 Melissia wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
No different to any narrative you can create in a sci fi or fantasy game really.

And then the pedants go around bitching about how "oh that's not realistic!" or "oh that's not historical". And there's far, FAR more of them, in my experience, when referencing ANYTHING historical.

I would say from my experience there are two types of historical gamer: the historical simulator (I think you are referring to) and more of an "alternative history" type.
In the end, yes the first type can be sticky about historical accuracy but it boils down to "could things have ended differently in that battle within that framework".
You will still hear as many "bitching" about the Horus Heresy and how certain scenarios do not fit the fluff.
Gamers/geeks like to show off their knowledge of the framework around that battle, there is no avoiding the stickler for detail science fiction or not.
I do not mind it, I tend to remind them we are not looking for a predetermined outcome or it is not worth playing.

Makumba wrote:

You can always form your own game group. It's not very hard to organize, and all you need is one person with a nice attic/basement, a supportive independent, or GW store, if it's 40k/AoS.

I wouldn't call easy to organize something that requires owning an an attic/basement or a whole FLGS.

Space in a room is all you need, really. Be smart with your usage and storage of your boards and you won't have any problems- a four by four board, or a six by four that folds in two up against the wall isn't taking up massive space at the end of the day. And it can be brought out, and put on any level surface. It's not a huge investment, not is it a massive headache to maintain.

Over Half a dozen of my friends have gaming boards in their flats/houses, and they range in size from one who has a small four foot by four foot board in his kitchen/living room that he can fold away (and his flat is the size of a closet!), and is perfect for warmachine to another who has a twelve by six foot board in his garage and is perfect for mass battles.

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe gw will give up on rules and let someone else do them.

One can only hope...

Space in a room is all you need, really. Be smart with your usage and storage of your boards and you won't have any problems- a four by four board, or a six by four that folds in two up against the wall isn't taking up massive space at the end of the day. And it can be brought out, and put on any level surface. It's not a huge investment, not is it a massive headache to maintain.

Over Half a dozen of my friends have gaming boards in their flats/houses, and they range in size from one who has a small four foot by four foot board in his kitchen/living room that he can fold away (and his flat is the size of a closet!), and is perfect for warmachine to another who has a twelve by six foot board in his garage and is perfect for mass battles.

You can't build the hobby off of some dude having a tiny little gaming board in his room.. as opposed to a game store having *twenty* + a place for people to congregate. I do admit, I assume you're talking about the UK due to the use of the word "flat".. in the US we have a massive amount of space and are spread apart.. Game stores are required to build communities.

 Kirasu wrote:

You can't build the hobby off of some dude having a tiny little gaming board in his room.. as opposed to a game store having *twenty* + a place for people to congregate. I do admit, I assume you're talking about the UK due to the use of the word "flat".. in the US we have a massive amount of space and are spread apart.. Game stores are required to build communities.

No they’re not. Gamers and hobbyists are what are required to build communities. They can be its strongest feature, or its weakest link. They are what makes it strong, or makes it fall apart. A store might act as a useful nexus, but at the end of the day, its what you make of it that counts. And plenty gaming stores never end up being anything special. Since they might be in dodgy locations, run by unsavoury people, may draw the wrong/different crowd, lack space or may be unsuitable for any number of other reasons.

And yes, you can build the hobby from home. My mate’s small flat is enough to have a few mates over chatting and hanging out at the end of the day. Gaming at home has its advantages - namely that you can be selective as to who you will invite, and it encourages a more laid back relaxed and friendly atmosphere. You can do things at home that often can't really be done in a public store (have a beer, bbq, have the TV and good music on dtc). Bear in mind. I don't see it as a zero sum equation either. I'm not saying 'gaming at home is better', or 'store gaming sucks'. Or vice versa. Both can coexist, both have merits, and both can strengthen each other. Everyone can get value from embracing not one, Not the other, but both.You don’t necessarily need twenty people either, but eventually, if it grows to that level, you need to step out from the basement. Fair enough.

Game stores can work, for sure as a venue. But they’re not the only option. One of the gaming groups in my city holds their game nights at the local RAF veterans club. I know of others that host theirs in the back room of a pub, library, community centre or ive heard of one that uses a church hall (the priest apparently is happy to have kids in doing something and engaging in a creative hobby away from their x-stations and playcubes, and not out on the street causing trouble, or potentially coming to any harm). Gaming at home with friends is perfectly functional as well. Being spread apart is no excuse either. You travel to somewhere – what’s wrong with travelling to your mate’s house if he is hosting it? Bbq out the back, have a few beers etc if you are lucky… tea and coffee otherwise, and hey, they’re your mates, so why not have them come over?

being honest, not every community is as large as 20+, nor is it always desireable to be that large. Sometimes, a smaller, tighter, more cohesive group with a like minded mentality towards their gaming goes just as far, if not further and can have huge staying power. I've seen stores come and go, and with them, their transient gamers. And all that time, those that are playing at home carry on what theyRe doing. A lot of groups max out at a dozen, or a handful of close friends, and that’s OK too. Really, all you need is one person to start with. For example, Last ‘all day gaming’ I went to was at a mates house, who had an 8 by 4 set up in one of the rooms that was enough for 2 games to be running. And while some were playing, others were watching, talking, catching up and so on. Probably about a dozen of us were there and some of us hadn’t caught up with others in about six months. And That, at the end of the day, is you build a community – you don’t build anything with a random group of strangers meeting in a neutral venue – that’s fine for a gunfight at dawn. you build a community when those strangers become friends, and when those friends hang out and build on their mutual enjoyment of their games, and More importantly, beyond those games. Most Fridays I play at my mates house with the 12 by six, and he usually hosts between 4 and six people – tight group, and we get a lot of very good games out of it.

Almost 18 pages!!! Why won't this thread die? Every couple of months the same stupid thread shows up and the same stupid response come in. If you like the game play it. if you don't like the game why waste your time complaining about why you don't like it and how dumb GW is and how much better it would be if someone else did it. Just move along and wait for it to happen, or not happen.

Enjoy it for what it is.

I stop looking at this forum for awhile because it is just so damned negative. Checked in again and it is the same negative stuff being spouted by the same negative people for the most part. I don't think the people frequenting this forum or at least posting to it represent the 40 k game as a whole, but a generally negative sad crowd who enjoy wallowing around in their own misery.

Check back in a couple of months.

Mods should really think aqbout the kind of place they run here, but I have said that before too and it falls on deaf ears.

Deadnight wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kirasu wrote:

You can't build the hobby off of some dude having a tiny little gaming board in his room.. as opposed to a game store having *twenty* + a place for people to congregate. I do admit, I assume you're talking about the UK due to the use of the word "flat".. in the US we have a massive amount of space and are spread apart.. Game stores are required to build communities.

No they’re not. Gamers and hobbyists are what are required to build communities. They can be its strongest feature, or its weakest link. They are what makes it strong, or makes it fall apart. A store might act as a useful nexus, but at the end of the day, its what you make of it that counts. And plenty gaming stores never end up being anything special. Since they might be in dodgy locations, run by unsavoury people, may draw the wrong/different crowd, lack space or may be unsuitable for any number of other reasons.

And yes, you can build the hobby from home. My mate’s small flat is enough to have a few mates over chatting and hanging out at the end of the day. Gaming at home has its advantages - namely that you can be selective as to who you will invite, and it encourages a more laid back relaxed and friendly atmosphere. You can do things at home that often can't really be done in a public store (have a beer, bbq, have the TV and good music on dtc). Bear in mind. I don't see it as a zero sum equation either. I'm not saying 'gaming at home is better', or 'store gaming sucks'. Or vice versa. Both can coexist, both have merits, and both can strengthen each other. Everyone can get value from embracing not one, Not the other, but both.You don’t necessarily need twenty people either, but eventually, if it grows to that level, you need to step out from the basement. Fair enough.

Game stores can work, for sure as a venue. But they’re not the only option. One of the gaming groups in my city holds their game nights at the local RAF veterans club. I know of others that host theirs in the back room of a pub, library, community centre or ive heard of one that uses a church hall (the priest apparently is happy to have kids in doing something and engaging in a creative hobby away from their x-stations and playcubes, and not out on the street causing trouble, or potentially coming to any harm). Gaming at home with friends is perfectly functional as well. Being spread apart is no excuse either. You travel to somewhere – what’s wrong with travelling to your mate’s house if he is hosting it? Bbq out the back, have a few beers etc if you are lucky… tea and coffee otherwise, and hey, they’re your mates, so why not have them come over?

being honest, not every community is as large as 20+, nor is it always desireable to be that large. Sometimes, a smaller, tighter, more cohesive group with a like minded mentality towards their gaming goes just as far, if not further and can have huge staying power. I've seen stores come and go, and with them, their transient gamers. And all that time, those that are playing at home carry on what theyRe doing. A lot of groups max out at a dozen, or a handful of close friends, and that’s OK too. Really, all you need is one person to start with. For example, Last ‘all day gaming’ I went to was at a mates house, who had an 8 by 4 set up in one of the rooms that was enough for 2 games to be running. And while some were playing, others were watching, talking, catching up and so on. Probably about a dozen of us were there and some of us hadn’t caught up with others in about six months. And That, at the end of the day, is you build a community – you don’t build anything with a random group of strangers meeting in a neutral venue – that’s fine for a gunfight at dawn. you build a community when those strangers become friends, and when those friends hang out and build on their mutual enjoyment of their games, and More importantly, beyond those games. Most Fridays I play at my mates house with the 12 by six, and he usually hosts between 4 and six people – tight group, and we get a lot of very good games out of it.

I think you're conflating "group" and "community."

There's no way I'm going to open up my home for complete strangers to wander in and out and play games whenever they like, irrespective of how much space I have.

My gaming friends originate from the existence of a local FLGS once upon a time, I didn't just happen to be friends with people who also happened to be gamers, I met gamers who ultimately became my friends. Had there been no nexus for that to happen, I don't honestly see how we'd even have met, let alone established any sort of social gaming group.

Should real life intervene, where is your tight group of 4-6 people going to get new members?

Groups may form spontaneously occasionally, but a FLGS or club are nearly always going to be needed as a catalyst.

Loborocket wrote:
I don't think the people frequenting this forum or at least posting to it represent the 40 k game as a whole, but a generally negative sad crowd who enjoy wallowing around in their own misery.

Check back in a couple of months.

Mods should really think aqbout the kind of place they run here, but I have said that before too and it falls on deaf ears.

I'm interested why you think the posters in one thread are representative of Dakka as a community, when you deny that the posters to Dakka (one of the largest, most international communities) are not representative of the 40k community.

If you go looking for drama, you'll find it. If you go looking for tactical discussions, battle reports, painting blogs, or debates about the background, you can find that as well.

Dwelling on a handful of negative threads says more about you than it does about the mods or what kind of place they run.

Loborocket wrote:
Almost 18 pages!!! Why won't this thread die? Every couple of months the same stupid thread shows up and the same stupid response come in. If you like the game play it. if you don't like the game why waste your time complaining about why you don't like it and how dumb GW is and how much better it would be if someone else did it. Just move along and wait for it to happen, or not happen.

Enjoy it for what it is.

I stop looking at this forum for awhile because it is just so damned negative. Checked in again and it is the same negative stuff being spouted by the same negative people for the most part. I don't think the people frequenting this forum or at least posting to it represent the 40 k game as a whole, but a generally negative sad crowd who enjoy wallowing around in their own misery.

Check back in a couple of months.

Mods should really think aqbout the kind of place they run here, but I have said that before too and it falls on deaf ears.

You really struggle with people not thinking the same as you don't you?

The evidence for the drop off in 40K is all there, all someone, such as yourself, who disagrees has to do is construct an argument, supported with healthy amounts of evidence and reasoning, of course, to the contrary, then we can all debate the merits of that argument.

What isn't useful is somebody posting complaining about complaining, criticising other users for sharing an opinon that they don't agree with and criticising the moderators for not essentially turning the whole board into some sort of propaganda machine for GW.

Get over it, and, frankly, if you don't check back in a couple of months, nobody will miss you.

 Polonius wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
I don't think the people frequenting this forum or at least posting to it represent the 40 k game as a whole, but a generally negative sad crowd who enjoy wallowing around in their own misery.

Check back in a couple of months.

Mods should really think aqbout the kind of place they run here, but I have said that before too and it falls on deaf ears.

I'm interested why you think the posters in one thread are representative of Dakka as a community, when you deny that the posters to Dakka (one of the largest, most international communities) are not representative of the 40k community.

If you go looking for drama, you'll find it. If you go looking for tactical discussions, battle reports, painting blogs, or debates about the background, you can find that as well.

Dwelling on a handful of negative threads says more about you than it does about the mods or what kind of place they run.

Drama and negativity finds its' way into too many threads at dakka in my opinion. You don't need to look too far to find it. IN my local "real world" 40k community that is pretty much the semtiment too. Real or imagined that is the reputation of this online forum/community. I realize it is a few Sad negative people who show up time and time again in multiple threads, but they make it a sad place to come for a visit.

Loborocket wrote:
Every couple of months the same stupid thread shows up and the same stupid response come in.

The sad thing is, I expect you don't see the irony here.

Loborocket wrote:
Drama and negativity finds its' way into too many threads at dakka in my opinion. You don't need to look too far to find it. IN my local "real world" 40k community that is pretty much the semtiment too. Real or imagined that is the reputation of this online forum/community. I realize it is a few Sad negative people who show up time and time again in multiple threads, but they make it a sad place to come for a visit.

that's a fairer sentiment. You feel it's too negative, and you don't enjoy posting here. That's a perfectly fine attitude to take.

In my internet experience, the posting here is quite passionate, which can be both good and bad. It's good because you can get a lot of feedback or discussion for a painting log or army list. It's bad because some conversations can become negative. You take the good with the bad in a lightly moderated, high volume forum.

And sitting on a high horse, labeling people as "sad" isn't exactly building a rich sense of community. It's the first rule of complaining: disliking a thing is an opinion, and worth sharing. Disliking a person, or their behavior, is a personal judgment generally not worth sharing publically.

Loborocket wrote:
Almost 18 pages!!! Why won't this thread die? Every couple of months the same stupid thread shows up and the same stupid response come in. If you like the game play it. if you don't like the game why waste your time complaining about why you don't like it and how dumb GW is and how much better it would be if someone else did it. Just move along and wait for it to happen, or not happen.

Enjoy it for what it is.

I stop looking at this forum for awhile because it is just so damned negative. Checked in again and it is the same negative stuff being spouted by the same negative people for the most part. I don't think the people frequenting this forum or at least posting to it represent the 40 k game as a whole, but a generally negative sad crowd who enjoy wallowing around in their own misery.

Check back in a couple of months.

Mods should really think aqbout the kind of place they run here, but I have said that before too and it falls on deaf ears.

What's wrong with people discussing this? That's why the forum is here!

Deadnight wrote:


... And That, at the end of the day, is you build a community – you don’t build anything with a random group of strangers meeting in a neutral venue – that’s fine for a gunfight at dawn. you build a community when those strangers become friends, and when those friends hang out and build on their mutual enjoyment of their games, and More importantly, beyond those games. Most Fridays I play at my mates house with the 12 by six, and he usually hosts between 4 and six people – tight group, and we get a lot of very good games out of it.

Okay but how do those strangers meet your group? Do you post on craigslist or something that they can just randomly show up at your house for some 40k? A private group is not a community. An easily accessible central meeting place is how those are formed. Also a community doesn't require a "tight group of friends" because when a key person leaves the group often falls apart where as a community of non-related people moves on.

 Azreal13 wrote:


I think you're conflating "group" and "community."

There's no way I'm going to open up my home for complete strangers to wander in and out and play games whenever they like, irrespective of how much space I have.

My gaming friends originate from the existence of a local FLGS once upon a time, I didn't just happen to be friends with people who also happened to be gamers, I met gamers who ultimately became my friends. Had there been no nexus for that to happen, I don't honestly see how we'd even have met, let alone established any sort of social gaming group.

Should real life intervene, where is your tight group of 4-6 people going to get new members?

Groups may form spontaneously occasionally, but a FLGS or club are nearly always going to be needed as a catalyst.

A gaming store makes for an easy central meeting place, but I don't think it's required. With Facebook groups and such, there are different ways to finding a gaming group and maintaining a community. In fact since people's names/faces are associated with those profiles it's a bit easier to screen out the nuts prior to inviting them to your home. I think having your personal profile linked to the group also leads people to be more civil and helpful in their community discussions instead of everything being doom and gloom.

In my area the game appears to be alive and well. 30k is on the rise too. Heck, I even saw someone playing BFG at a store yesterday.

I'm sorry, maybe it's Britishness, but there's absolutely no way I'd invite someone I'd only had contact with online into my home without prior real world experience.

Equally, anyone who makes an assumption that someone's online persona (including their name and face!) bears any resemblance to real life is setting themselves up for trouble.

Sure, this is the best it's ever been for being able to reach out and find like minded people, but going to a venue that caters to those interests still probably the most wide ranging and efficient way to do it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm sorry, maybe it's Britishness, but there's absolutely no way I'd invite someone I'd only had contact with online into my home without prior real world experience.

"Sorry, old boy, but you know how it is. I mean, I'm hardly going to invite in someone I haven't been properly introduced to, am I? What!"

(Joking aside, I completely agree with you.)

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm sorry, maybe it's Britishness, but there's absolutely no way I'd invite someone I'd only had contact with online into my home without prior real world experience.

It's best not to invite anyone in. Keeps the Vampires away...