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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I support the right to arm bears!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 d-usa wrote:


We need those "high powered" .308 rounds, how else will we kill bears and get those bear arms that everyone is arguing about?


The old fashioned way. With a rust hatchet and a raccoon skin hat

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 19:11:44


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:
D... even if an attempt is made to *classify* those attributes... it's still arbitrary... right?


Everything is arbitrary. Speed limits are arbitrary. Blood alcohol limits are arbitrary. If someone wanted to decide that 1000 ft/lb is the cutoff between "low powered" and "high powered" rounds it would be arbitrary. All I am arguing is that we should stop acting like it's impossible to define things, especially if they are things that we know about and that we actually look at and which help us decide which pack of ammo we are picking up from the shelf today.

Well... yeah, but the ongoing debate to classify these things is to put certain attributes in a certain category to make it easier to regulate.

Hence why there are folks who try to category certain "speech" in a bucket, so that regulation/laws could be made (or attempted) to restrict it. See efforts on "hate speech".

Hence... speed limits, blood alchohol limits are used. Yes, it's arbitrary... but take it a step further as to *why* we decided on those attributes.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 19:16:02


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Frazzled wrote:


What has to go?
All magazine fed, self-loading firearms.
Yes, that means handguns too.


Stopped reading there, it's a political rant.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

You know, once I was in a cave, and I was looking at different type of ammunition silhouetted on the wall and trying to decide how much it weighted. But then I realized, what I thought was the actual ammunition was just a shadow, and I could not define the true nature of the thing in front of me for it was only a form of it. However, I am sure that behind me their is a version of the thing I am trying to define with an actual weight, but i just can't see it as it is behind me.

To paraphrase some old, dead guy. Maybe Frazz knew him?

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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

"Sonny, I knew the Vlad the Impaler, and buddy, you're no Vlad the Impaler"
-Frazzled, on one of his former frat buddies.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 d-usa wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Ahhh, the amount of snark in that "honest question" is refreshing.

What i'm doing D, is trying to show the guy that the way the weapon looks has zero impact on its capability. Everyone of those pictured weapons, fires the same exact round. A .308 Winchester caliber round. A very commonly used hunting round.

There is no such thing as "low powered" and "high powered" rounds, unless you're trying to compare something like a 30-30 and a .50 cal. It even goes to his sniper rifle comment, because one of the most common rounds used in military "sniper" weapons, is the .308 Winchester.



So let's look at the .308 Winchester rounds from one manufacturer, Hornady:

The bullet weight ranges from 110gr to 178gr.
The velocity at 500 yards ranges from 1437 fps to 1987 fps.
The energy at 500 yards ranges from 573 ft/lb to 1531 ft/lb.

You could post a couple pictures of different .308 rounds and ask "which one weighs more", but we all know that all this information is printed right on the box.

What's the point? The point is that it really isn't helpful to pretend that .308 = .308 = .308 and that it doesn't hurt to acknowledge that in this single caliber there is a 167% difference in the energy delivered between the lowest energy .308 and the highest energy .308 being sold by this manufacturer alone. That's why people might just end up using a different round depending on what kind of animal they are hunting, because some of them are more "high powered" than others and may be too much for smaller game.

And if someone wanted to decide that X ft/lb is the cutoff for "high power rounds" then that it something that can be easily measured.


The issue with the arbitrary nature of the definition of "high powered" is the context and uselessness of it. Choosing a definition for the purpose of restricting use is pointless, there's already billions of .308 rounds in civilian hands and any .308 round will ruin your day if you're unlucky enough to get shot with it. It's not as if you can make a distinction between "low powered" and "high powered" rounds having significant differences in lethality. A civil war musket is "low powered" but would do more damage to a person at pistol shooting range than a modern 9mm round. There's no such thing as a rifle round that isn't dangerous and lethal. The problem with these arbitrary govt definitions for the purposes of gun control is that they lack any grounding in facts or science. Look at California's "assault weapon" law, they use the combination of accessories you put on an AR15 as an indication of it's lethality which is asinine. There is no Magpul accessory that makes a .223 rifle more or less lethal.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Frazzled wrote:
"Sonny, I knew the Vlad the Impaler, and buddy, you're no Vlad the Impaler"
-Frazzled, on one of his former frat buddies.



Stopped reading there, it's a political rant.

Indeed. that in no way means a lot of people don't want that.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

A similarly themed but (I think) better written article:

https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them

In part:

Ban guns. All guns. Get rid of guns in homes, and on the streets, and, as much as possible, on police. Not just because of San Bernardino, or whichever mass shooting may pop up next, but also not not because of those. Don’t sort the population into those who might do something evil or foolish or self-destructive with a gun and those who surely will not. As if this could be known—as if it could be assessed without massively violating civil liberties and stigmatizing the mentally ill. Ban guns! Not just gun violence. Not just certain guns. Not just already-technically-illegal guns. All of them.


This 'fringe' is working hard to frame the issue in ways that really bother me.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 CptJake wrote:
A similarly themed but (I think) better written article:

https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them

In part:

Ban guns. All guns. Get rid of guns in homes, and on the streets, and, as much as possible, on police. Not just because of San Bernardino, or whichever mass shooting may pop up next, but also not not because of those. Don’t sort the population into those who might do something evil or foolish or self-destructive with a gun and those who surely will not. As if this could be known—as if it could be assessed without massively violating civil liberties and stigmatizing the mentally ill. Ban guns! Not just gun violence. Not just certain guns. Not just already-technically-illegal guns. All of them.


This 'fringe' is working hard to frame the issue in ways that really bother me.


Let them keep this up. This "infringement" is easier to combat, then the picking of little things here and there, constantly eroding.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 CptJake wrote:
A similarly themed but (I think) better written article:

https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them

In part:

Ban guns. All guns. Get rid of guns in homes, and on the streets, and, as much as possible, on police. Not just because of San Bernardino, or whichever mass shooting may pop up next, but also not not because of those. Don’t sort the population into those who might do something evil or foolish or self-destructive with a gun and those who surely will not. As if this could be known—as if it could be assessed without massively violating civil liberties and stigmatizing the mentally ill. Ban guns! Not just gun violence. Not just certain guns. Not just already-technically-illegal guns. All of them.


This 'fringe' is working hard to frame the issue in ways that really bother me.


Meh. It's just worthless feel good over simplification of the issue done in order to get the "right" solution to the alleged problem. It's no different than calling to ban all vehicles powered by combustion engines for the sake of the environment. Utterly impractical and downright impossible to implement.

We're not even going to have a national registry of civilian firearm ownership anytime soon, if ever and there's no way to even begin banning guns without that first step.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






People seem to get awfully defensive that less than 1% want something that is untenable. Maybe not giving them the time of day would be a better solution then pretending they have sway over anything.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


If it's not the 1% with all the money and most of the politicians on the payroll, it doesn't count

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 SilverMK2 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


If it's not the 1% with all the money and most of the politicians on the payroll, it doesn't count


Well that is certainly your opinion.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 Frazzled wrote:
 SilverMK2 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


If it's not the 1% with all the money and most of the politicians on the payroll, it doesn't count


Well that is certainly your opinion.


Well, I certainly could be wrong given the fact that you have all had your guns taken off yo... wait a second

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

California, NY, Chicago.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 Frazzled wrote:
California, NY, Chicago.
Correct, those are all states in America.

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
California, NY, Chicago.
Correct, those are all states in America.





Chicago is a city.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

Correction, those are all places in America.



Still failing to see how that is relevant to this already irrelevant thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 22:21:30


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Those enacted legislation. Evidently they either had the 1% or the 1% argument doesn't hold.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant Colonel






 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
California, NY, Chicago.
Correct, those are all states in America.


last I checked Chicago was a city...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
Those enacted legislation. Evidently they either had the 1% or the 1% argument doesn't hold.


Pretty much... its disingenuous to proclaim "only 1%" of people want to ban or severely restrict gun ownership when so many millions of $'s go into things like brady ect and they obviously have a decent amount of support.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/15 22:25:09


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

State of mind baby. Chicago is a state of mind.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 Frazzled wrote:
Those enacted legislation. Evidently they either had the 1% or the 1% argument doesn't hold.
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to own guns in the three places you listed.

What is your point in this otherwise very pointless thread?

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant Colonel






 SilverMK2 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 SilverMK2 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


If it's not the 1% with all the money and most of the politicians on the payroll, it doesn't count


Well that is certainly your opinion.


Well, I certainly could be wrong given the fact that you have all had your guns taken off yo... wait a second


So in order to prove that there are people working to ban or severely limit gun ownership said bans/limits must already be enacted....



 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 easysauce wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
California, NY, Chicago.
Correct, those are all states in America.


last I checked Chicago was a city...
Right, which is why I replied with a correction. Thanks, though!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 22:31:33


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


In what fantasy world does one have to live to believe that the President wants to ban all guns? I could use a good vacation.

I think Pelosi wants more regulation than I do, but that is also a far cry from banning all firearms.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Those enacted legislation. Evidently they either had the 1% or the 1% argument doesn't hold.
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to own guns in the three places you listed.

What is your point in this otherwise very pointless thread?


Yep, even with the S.A.F.E. act, they are merely restricted.


List of restrictions.
Spoiler:
Bans possession of any "high-capacity magazines" regardless of when they were made or sold. The maximum capacity for all magazines is 10 rounds. .22 caliber tubular magazines are exempt from this limit. Previously legal "pre-1994-ban" magazines with a capacity of 30 rounds are not exempt, and must be sold within one year to an out-of-state resident or turned in to local authorities. The magazine limit took effect April 15, 2013.[8][9] Originally the law allowed only seven rounds to be loaded into a magazine, but this provision was struck down by a federal judge on December 21, 2013.[10]

Ammunition dealers are required to do background checks, similar to those for gun buyers. Dealers are required to report all sales, including amounts, to the state. Internet sales of ammunition are allowed, but the ammunition will have to be shipped to a licensed dealer in New York state for pickup. Ammunition background checks were scheduled to begin January 15, 2014,[11] but were put on hold indefinitely because the required "seamless" technology that would not inconvenience vendors or customers could not be put in place. The superintendent of state police, charged with creating such technology, is working on development, but a release date is still unknown.[12] So while out-of-state vendors are required to ship ammunition to a NYS licensed dealer, the buyer can still pick it up with no check of any kind required, or walk into any registered ammunition dealer (now required under the act to sell ammunition) and buy ammunition providing he/she is over 18.

Requires creation of a registry of assault weapons. Those New Yorkers who already own such weapons would be required to register their guns with the state. Registration began on April 15, 2013 and must have been completed before April 15, 2014.[9]

Requires designated mental health professionals who believe a mental health patient made a credible threat of harming others to report the threat to a mental health director, who would then have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient's gun could be taken from him or her.

Stolen guns are required to be reported within 24 hours. Failure to report can result in a misdemeanor.

Broadens definition of "assault weapon" from two identified features to one. The sale and/or transfer of newly defined assault weapons is banned within the state, although sales out of state are permitted. Possession of the newly defined assault weapons is allowed only if they were possessed at the time that the law was passed, and must be registered with the state within one year.

Requires background checks for all gun sales, including by private sellers - except for sales to members of the seller's immediate family. Private sale background checks began March 15, 2013.[11]

Guns must be "safely stored" from any household member who has been convicted of a felony or domestic violence crime, has been involuntarily committed, or is currently under an order of protection.[11] Unsafe storage of assault weapons is a misdemeanor.

Mandates that all purchases of firearms go through a licensed firearm dealer(FFL), unless it is an exempted transfer between family members

Increases sentences for gun crimes, including upgrading the offense for taking a gun on school property from a misdemeanor to a felony.[13]

The state Penal Law section on aggravated murder was amended to increase penalties for murdering a first responder (the "Webster" provision) to life in prison without parole.[14]

Limits the state records law to protect handgun owners from being identified publicly. However, existing permit holders have to opt into this provision by filing a form within 120 days of the law's enactment.[15] There also may exist issues with respect to "registered" owners in the new regulations vs "permit" holders under previous law.

Requires pistol permit holders or owners of registered assault weapons to have them renewed at least every five years.

Allows law enforcement officials to seize regulated types of firearms from an individual, provided the individual has been certified by a medical professional to be too mentally unstable to safely possess "spray" firearms, shotguns, or rifles.[16][17]


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Ahtman wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
That 1% includes POTUS and Pelosi.


In what fantasy world does one have to live to believe that the President wants to ban all guns? I could use a good vacation.


Signing legislation that lets people carry guns in federal parks and in checked baggage on trains was only the first step to disarm America.
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Frazzled wrote:
I support the right to arm bears!


I bear the right to support arms!

   
 
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