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The lightning claw seems to be an upgrade of a power fist if you look at the models. Just pick a power fist and add some nasty power blades at it.
But their stats don't support this at all. Does anyone know what is the fluff difference between the two weapons and why the Str profile of the power claws is that low ?

Lightning Claws and other power weapons surround their blades with an energy field, helping the cutting process. Power Fists and Thunder Hammers store up the energy and release it upon impact, greatly increasing the amount of force applied to the target.

And also not to have 3 weapons that basically do the same thing.

Also, with claws, you would try and get in several swipes as fast as possible, whereas power fists would be much easier to put lots of power into slower punches.

The disconnect for me comes in how they handle. Once upon a time lightning claws were just upgraded power fists (and required pairs to use them). But then power fists got their 'slow' rules while claws didn't.

Lightning claws used to be a power sword + power fist, in the same way a chain fist is a chain sword + power fist. Somewhere the rules got odd and now none of it makes much sense.

 Kojiro wrote:
The disconnect for me comes in how they handle. Once upon a time lightning claws were just upgraded power fists (and required pairs to use them). But then power fists got their 'slow' rules while claws didn't.

Lightning claws used to be a power sword + power fist, in the same way a chain fist is a chain sword + power fist. Somewhere the rules got odd and now none of it makes much sense.

Ok, but a fist with a sword in it is always vastly different than a fist, like just a fist. If you have a knife in your hand, it's always on, it is always ready to hurt somebody if it comes in contact with them, as long as you have your weight roughly behind it. If you don't have a knife, you don't have that.

If you have a fist, and this can be just a regular fist, not necessarily a power fist, you have to do something with it to get it to hurt someone. You can attempt to grab someone's arm and break it, or throw a punch, but that's a whole action that you need to start at the right time, and once you start it takes a second to start another one.

A hand with a knife in it is different than a hand with no knife.

You're missing my point. A powerfist has the same energy field a power sword does. Whatever weight or inertia a fist has, sticking four blades on it is only going to add to that. Which is why LCs were initially a power fist enhancement. Both hit as hard but the claws gave a parry and did multiple wounds.

But then they changed the rules. For some reasons the bigger, heavier more damaging weapon got significantly faster and now did much less damage.

My understanding was that if you had a baseball bat or a sledge hammer, and you held it up against somebody, and ran it across their armor or tried to press it into someone, that it wouldn't do any good. You'd have to swing it really hard at someone, and that is why being heavy would heavy would make it slower, because it would take more work to get it moving and more work to stop it and swing again I you miss, but with more weight it would do more damage.

Since the point of having a sharp knife or power blade is that since it can be placed without a lot of force against a surface, and does its damage by slicing or pressing, that it wouldn't matter how heavy it was as far as being "slow," or doing damage. So where does being heavier allow the lightning claw to deliver more damage or make it slower?

A lightning claw does not have the immense power capacitors that a power fist has, thus it is lighter

pelicaniforce wrote:
So where does being heavier allow the lightning claw to deliver more damage?
.

That wasn't quite what he was saying.

The lightning claw is a powerfist with some blades stuck on it. ie: a bigger, heavier weapon than a powerfist, in the same way that a rotweiler with a laser strapped to its head is a bigger, heavier weapon than a rotweiler sans laser.

This bigger, heavier weapon used to be more or less the same as a powerfist to wield, but was more dangerous than a powerfist.

At some point (the start of 3rd edition, to be exact) it became much faster than a powerfist, and started doing less damage. While still just being a bunch of blades stuck on a powerfist.


The weapon hasn't changed, but its effect in-game has changed significantly.

Nobody gave the model designers the memo that Lightning Claws were supposed to make a character Wolverine.

Its just space Marine aesthetics.

You could also think of a powerfist as not being heavy, just Unwieldy. Like someone else pointed out, punching and stabbing are different methods of attack. Just imagine that trying to punch with a huge metal box on your hand is more awkward than simply trying to stab with a punch dagger.

There's some Rule of Cool going on. The way Lightning Claws are modeled, they would probably be even more unwieldy than a Power Fist. But the fluff is that they're a more elegant weapon.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
There's some Rule of Cool going on. The way Lightning Claws are modeled, they would probably be even more unwieldy than a Power Fist. But the fluff is that they're a more elegant weapon.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC?!?!

 dusara217 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
There's some Rule of Cool going on. The way Lightning Claws are modeled, they would probably be even more unwieldy than a Power Fist. But the fluff is that they're a more elegant weapon.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC?!?!

Non at all.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
There's some Rule of Cool going on. The way Lightning Claws are modeled, they would probably be even more unwieldy than a Power Fist. But the fluff is that they're a more elegant weapon.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC?!?!

Non at all.

The Tau stole all of the logic and put it in a box around Farsight's neck.

Well, i see it as the lightning claw being faster because you dont nessecary have to punch or slash, all you need to do is point at the enemy and wiggle your fingers.
Powerweapons just slide through most armor.

But a fist you would have to build a momentum, wich takes a sec, in wich the enemy will have time to swing.

Granted, i still think a space marine could swing a powerfist faster than an imperial human could swing his sword.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Well, i see it as the lightning claw being faster because you dont nessecary have to punch or slash, all you need to do is point at the enemy and wiggle your fingers.
Powerweapons just slide through most armor.

Yeah, actually all of almost all power swords work this way. They put their arm with their sword in front of them and between them and the enemy and keep it there.

But a fist you would have to build a momentum, wich takes a sec, in wich the enemy will have time to swing.

.

Well there is your problem. It's a little strange to punch with something that makes your fingers stronger.

pelicaniforce wrote:

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Well, i see it as the lightning claw being faster because you dont nessecary have to punch or slash, all you need to do is point at the enemy and wiggle your fingers.
Powerweapons just slide through most armor.

Yeah, actually all of almost all power swords work this way. They put their arm with their sword in front of them and between them and the enemy and keep it there.

But a fist you would have to build a momentum, wich takes a sec, in wich the enemy will have time to swing.

.

Well there is your problem. It's a little strange to punch with something that makes your fingers stronger.

And therein I've found the problem. The first doesn't just punch stuff, it crushes and moves like a hand. But its not a hand, its a giant oversized glove that detects the movement of the hand inside and follows, meaning the reactions will always be slower than an actual hand. Whereas a Lightning Claw is just a punch dagger, you don't need to move your fingers or hand at all, your hand and wrist are completely still and the body does the work.