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The BRB has this rule: "Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon’s profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

Am I right in thinking this mean stuff like Laser Lances and Singing Spears can't be shot in the same turn you want to use them in combat?

Correct. Has been the case since 6th at least.

Also affects Scorpion's Claws, Necron Rods of Covenants and other things.

 vipoid wrote:
The BRB has this rule: "Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon’s profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

Am I right in thinking this mean stuff like Laser Lances and Singing Spears can't be shot in the same turn you want to use them in combat?

Incorrect. There is no statement carrying an actual limit on use. There are some that subconsciously add "one" in to "choose which to use each turn.". What limits on their use are supplied in other sections of the book.

If a weapon has both a melee and shooting profile it can be used in both sub phases, unless there is something that says otherwise. An example of that is the Ork Burna boy, who can fire their weapon as a flamer or as a power weapon.

Charistoph wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The BRB has this rule: "Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon’s profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

Am I right in thinking this mean stuff like Laser Lances and Singing Spears can't be shot in the same turn you want to use them in combat?

Incorrect. There is no statement carrying an actual limit on use. There are some that subconsciously add "one" in to "choose which to use each turn.". What limits on their use are supplied in other sections of the book.

So when the quote of the rulebook above said "you can choose which to use each turn", it DIDN'T mean you could only choose one? I've never seen this as a problem anywhere I've gone. A model has a weapon with 2 profiles. I can choose which I want to use each turn. If I want to use my Rod of the Covenant in the shooting phase, I can, but that stops me from using it in the assault phase as I've already chosen my profile this turn.

There shouldn't be an argument about this; the rule is right there in the quote, man.

Yes, and what the rule does not do is add "one" in, which is what you're doing.

Have to agree that this is pretty obvious. The rules is not ambiguous. Want to shoot? Use the shooting profile. Want to melee? Use the melee profile. All in the same turn...

So I can totally choose to use both profiles on, say, a Missile Launcher? That's where the "it doesn't say one" stance ends up surely?

The rule tells us some weapons have multiple profiles, and to choose which profile to use each turn. Saying "I choose all the things" is as much of a cop-out as I can think of, and negates the rule entirely.

Mr ghoti wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The BRB has this rule: "Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon’s profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

Am I right in thinking this mean stuff like Laser Lances and Singing Spears can't be shot in the same turn you want to use them in combat?

Incorrect. There is no statement carrying an actual limit on use. There are some that subconsciously add "one" in to "choose which to use each turn.". What limits on their use are supplied in other sections of the book.

So when the quote of the rulebook above said "you can choose which to use each turn", it DIDN'T mean you could only choose one? I've never seen this as a problem anywhere I've gone. A model has a weapon with 2 profiles. I can choose which I want to use each turn. If I want to use my Rod of the Covenant in the shooting phase, I can, but that stops me from using it in the assault phase as I've already chosen my profile this turn.

There shouldn't be an argument about this; the rule is right there in the quote, man.

It states "you may choose which to use", not "you may choose which one to use", or, "you may choose which profile to use". No limit is actually stated in this sentence other than what you choose to place in it. It is equally valid to say, "you may choose which ones to use", or, "you may choose which profiles to use".

What limits are in place are located in other locations, such as More Than One Weapon and the Shooting Sequence.

Quanar wrote:So I can totally choose to use both profiles on, say, a Missile Launcher? That's where the "it doesn't say one" stance ends up surely?

The rule tells us some weapons have multiple profiles, and to choose which profile to use each turn. Saying "I choose all the things" is as much of a cop-out as I can think of, and negates the rule entirely.

A Vehicle, Monstrous Creature, or Tau Battlesuit can, as they are allowed to use more than one Weapon a Shooting Phase. However, one should also consider that the Shooting Sequence does not consider a Flakk, Frag, and Krak Missile to be different profiles of the same Weapon, but are to treat them as different Weapons when one goes to select a Weapon.

Charistoph wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The BRB has this rule: "Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon’s profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

Am I right in thinking this mean stuff like Laser Lances and Singing Spears can't be shot in the same turn you want to use them in combat?

Incorrect. There is no statement carrying an actual limit on use. There are some that subconsciously add "one" in to "choose which to use each turn.". What limits on their use are supplied in other sections of the book.

So when the quote of the rulebook above said "you can choose which to use each turn", it DIDN'T mean you could only choose one? I've never seen this as a problem anywhere I've gone. A model has a weapon with 2 profiles. I can choose which I want to use each turn. If I want to use my Rod of the Covenant in the shooting phase, I can, but that stops me from using it in the assault phase as I've already chosen my profile this turn.

There shouldn't be an argument about this; the rule is right there in the quote, man.

It states "you may choose which to use", not "you may choose which one to use", or, "you may choose which profile to use". No limit is actually stated in this sentence other than what you choose to place in it. It is equally valid to say, "you may choose which ones to use", or, "you may choose which profiles to use".

What limits are in place are located in other locations, such as More Than One Weapon and the Shooting Sequence.

Quanar wrote:So I can totally choose to use both profiles on, say, a Missile Launcher? That's where the "it doesn't say one" stance ends up surely?

The rule tells us some weapons have multiple profiles, and to choose which profile to use each turn. Saying "I choose all the things" is as much of a cop-out as I can think of, and negates the rule entirely.

A Vehicle, Monstrous Creature, or Tau Battlesuit can, as they are allowed to use more than one Weapon a Shooting Phase. However, one should also consider that the Shooting Sequence does not consider a Flakk, Frag, and Krak Missile to be different profiles of the same Weapon, but are to treat them as different Weapons when one goes to select a Weapon.

So my Riptide can shoot the s8ap2 plate, the heavy 3 s7 ap2, and the SMS system all in the same turn?

I don't know, is there any rule like the Burna the Burna Boys use and the combi-bolter's that would prevent it?

Charistoph wrote:
It states "you may choose which to use", not "you may choose which one to use", or, "you may choose which profile to use". No limit is actually stated in this sentence other than what you choose to place in it. It is equally valid to say, "you may choose which ones to use", or, "you may choose which profiles to use".

Guess we just read the context (i.e. the wording just prior - "there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each") differently, it seems obvious (I don't mean that the way I read it is the only way to read it, I mean after I read the rule, there seemed only one way to interpret it) to me that you're meant to choose only one profile a turn, otherwise what's the point of the time limit?

Previously, I've only ever found people who either didn't read the rule, or had but flat-out ignored it as it hampered what they wanted to do. I'm surprised at an actual attempt to justify it, by posters I normally set stock by, such that I'll be giving it some thought. A similarity to the "psykers can only cast # of spells = to mastery level" argument, in the adding of implied meaning.

 Quanar wrote:
So I can totally choose to use both profiles on, say, a Missile Launcher? That's where the "it doesn't say one" stance ends up surely?

Are you able to shoot twice with it? Why do you assume you can pick both? Were you instructed to do so?

The rule tells us some weapons have multiple profiles, and to choose which profile to use each turn. Saying "I choose all the things" is as much of a cop-out as I can think of, and negates the rule entirely.

Sorry but no. The rule is clear.

 Quanar wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
It states "you may choose which to use", not "you may choose which one to use", or, "you may choose which profile to use". No limit is actually stated in this sentence other than what you choose to place in it. It is equally valid to say, "you may choose which ones to use", or, "you may choose which profiles to use".

Guess we just read the context (i.e. the wording just prior - "there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each") differently, it seems obvious (I don't mean that the way I read it is the only way to read it, I mean after I read the rule, there seemed only one way to interpret it) to me that you're meant to choose only one profile a turn, otherwise what's the point of the time limit?

Previously, I've only ever found people who either didn't read the rule, or had but flat-out ignored it as it hampered what they wanted to do. I'm surprised at an actual attempt to justify it, by posters I normally set stock by, such that I'll be giving it some thought. A similarity to the "psykers can only cast # of spells = to mastery level" argument, in the adding of implied meaning.

This subject is what got me on Dakka, I think.

I put it as the only limit is what you put in, because it is the truth. If you see a sign that says "3 for $5", would only limit yourself to 3, or a multiple? What if you only need 1? What if you need 4?

I am aware that while growing up, most of us were trained to think that "choose which" came with an implied "one" after it, unless told differently. However, just a simple shopping trip for yourself can put you in to altering that paradigm, since only your funds, availability, and desires truly limit you.

 Quanar wrote:
Previously, I've only ever found people who either didn't read the rule, or had but flat-out ignored it as it hampered what they wanted to do.

I'm not sure about it hampering what they wanted to do, so much as hampering the logical function of those weapons - which are supposed to fire on the same turn they charge (hence the minuscule range).

 vipoid wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
Previously, I've only ever found people who either didn't read the rule, or had but flat-out ignored it as it hampered what they wanted to do.

I'm not sure about it hampering what they wanted to do, so much as hampering the logical function of those weapons - which are supposed to fire on the same turn they charge (hence the minuscule range).

Indeed, I don't think any of these weapons with melee and shooting profiles have a range higher than 18", indeed, most are 12" or less. That list grows if you consider Pistols as being part of this list. In addition, they are all Assault as well, so Shooting and Charging is both intended and expected.

We houserule all of them applying logic and fluff:
-Laserlance: can fire and assault. The lance is leveled at the target on the charge and is a laser in the head, makes sense that they can do both.
-Singing spear: throw or assault. You litteraly throw the spear, if it is thrown it has to be recovered before stabbing.
-triskele: throw and assault. It is a magic boomarang like the glaive from krull, always returning to the throwers hand.
-burnas: fire or assault because that is specified in the rules for it.
Etc.

 Mulletdude wrote:
So my Riptide can shoot the s8ap2 plate, the heavy 3 s7 ap2, and the SMS system all in the same turn?

So I am pretty sure in a completely separate section it explains the use of ammunition... which many people are confusing with "weapons". As you can normally only fire "one" weapon a turn (turn being a player turn by default), you would choose a type of ammunition or in this case a profile and fire it that turn. Now.. you may only fire one weapon a turn.. so now your done with your ion cannon for example. MCs can fire two weapons so your riptide may then fire it's secondary weapon.

In the case of a model holding two say starcannons... wraithlord for example.. it may fire both because each is its own weapon.


In the case of the original question.. I have never seen it interpreted/played in a way that you could not "shoot" and "assault" in the same phase.

In the shooting phase.. choose a weapon (in the case of a weapon with both a shooting and assault profile) you would choose the shooting profile.

Following then in the assault phase... you would then use the weapons assault profile.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:
So my Riptide can shoot the s8ap2 plate, the heavy 3 s7 ap2, and the SMS system all in the same turn?

So I am pretty sure in a completely separate section it explains the use of ammunition... which many people are confusing with "weapons". As you can normally only fire "one" weapon a turn (turn being a player turn by default), you would choose a type of ammunition or in this case a profile and fire it that turn. Now.. you may only fire one weapon a turn.. so now your done with your ion cannon for example. MCs can fire two weapons so your riptide may then fire it's secondary weapon.

In the case of a model holding two say starcannons... wraithlord for example.. it may fire both because each is its own weapon.

No confusion at all:

We're told to treat them as different weapons when selecting them. Now, it could be interpreted that this only for separating shot resolutions, in other words, resolve Frags separate from Kraks and consider them one weapon. But all of this is in the same section and it doesn't go back and reiterate that one profile is still part of the same weapon when it comes to selecting a Weapon that has not been shot before.