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Hey there played a game with some friends where one fielded a Trygon Prime and the other brought an imperial knight. Long story short Trygon got shredded an the nid player, for lack of a better description, failed his own personal "gets hot" check and exploded making the argument that the imperial knight is for apocalypse games and the Trygon isn't. Can I get a little clarification because it's been 3 days hearing this back and forth, and I don't want to have to kill them both.

Super-heavy vehicles like the Imperial Knight are legal in normal games as of 7th ish, simply requiring either a "Lord of War" slot, or specific detachment (such as is the case for the Imperial Knight).

Things like Warhound, Reaver or Warlord Titans should stay in Apocalypse games, though you can technically take them, it'll be a very un-fun match for one or more sides.

And Trygon prime? Not considered super heavy?

Bringing an IK to say a 1000pt game could be argued to be a bit cheesy. But a single knight in a 2000pt game is no reason for your mate to throw a tantrum. Any 2k list should have the means to deal with an IK. Sounds like he just had some bad luck and was a sore lose on this occasion.

Trygon Prime is an overcosted MC from the regular codex, and it has no chance of taking on a Knight at all.

Not sure how it "failed his own personal "gets hot" check and exploded" though.

 Iechine wrote:
Trygon Prime is an overcosted MC from the regular codex, and it has no chance of taking on a Knight at all.

Not sure how it "failed his own personal "gets hot" check and exploded" though.

I think he was referring to the Tyranid player.

Mat

Ah I misread it.

Still, I dont blame you for bringing the Knight, more I blame the Tyranid player for using a poor unit.

cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

I can also testify that Tyranids have very little problem killing Knights due to Flyrants, relatively speaking of course.

This is the new 40k. One knigjt is a mercy now a days. Tell him to get gud.

Super heavies are the new heavy supports

I have seen my 5 IKs die as much as cultists on turn 1. If you can destroy two ironclad Dreadnaught then you can destroy a IK. Losing a IK means losing 1/8 your army.

One knight isn't that bad. It's a big vehicle, which is something that a good list should be prepared for. I could see how a full knight army could be a tough list for some people because it negates all the small arms/anti infrantry weapons that a person has.

I have challenged the Imp Knight player to bring 3 knights against my marines to show him how silly he's being. This should be fun.

grav could ruin him pretty quick since you know what's coming. Cents in pods can win on turn one if you roll well.

3 knights is no fun. The fact that grav spam and tournament armies can get them down doesn't make that casual armies have a decent method to get rid of them.

 Grey Knight Luke wrote:
cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

6 hp with a 3++ save, crazy.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Grey Knight Luke wrote:
cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

6 hp with a 3++ save, crazy.

Since when did IKs get 3++ invul saves?

 CrownAxe wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Grey Knight Luke wrote:
cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

6 hp with a 3++ save, crazy.

Since when did IKs get 3++ invul saves?

Not sure, my friend runs an IK at 1,250-1,500 and apparently you can roll to see their 'skill level' or something, and if he rolls like 5-6 its a character and gets like bs 5(or 6) as well as a 3++ save for that arc thing.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Grey Knight Luke wrote:
cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

6 hp with a 3++ save, crazy.

Since when did IKs get 3++ invul saves?

Not sure, my friend runs an IK at 1,250-1,500 and apparently you can roll to see their 'skill level' or something, and if he rolls like 5-6 its a character and gets like bs 5(or 6) as well as a 3++ save for that arc thing.

That's gone

 CrownAxe wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Grey Knight Luke wrote:
cmon, knights have 6 HP, all armies should be able to strip av13.

Unfortunately now that he has had this reaction he will freak out over knights for a while longer.

6 hp with a 3++ save, crazy.

Since when did IKs get 3++ invul saves?

Not sure, my friend runs an IK at 1,250-1,500 and apparently you can roll to see their 'skill level' or something, and if he rolls like 5-6 its a character and gets like bs 5(or 6) as well as a 3++ save for that arc thing.

That's gone

He reads it off his phone since he got a french codex, I didnt know there were more than 1 editions of knights?

Knights got their new codex in May...

Interesting.... Noted, thanks! are their any major noteable changes that I should know about? We'll be having another game before he can get the new book.

The new knight codex gave them a ton of stuff like 3 new knight variants, ObSec on their detachments, a bunch of formations, gun options for their carapace, a better warlord chart, and relics.

Other then losing the option to roll for their knight household (which was what giving them the bs5 and 3++ ion shield) they still have the same options as before, they just added a ton of stuff.

HoundsofDemos wrote:grav could ruin him pretty quick since you know what's coming. Cents in pods can win on turn one if you roll well.

oldzoggy wrote:3 knights is no fun. The fact that grav spam and tournament armies can get them down doesn't make that casual armies have a decent method to get rid of them.

grav weaponry only works on vehicles on a roll of a 6s. 1s-5s do nothing. The 6s guarantee immobilize and takes a hp.

Good luck.

Much better off with melta.

Also, People I play with are ultra casual n tailor their list to fight me. Is this a set in stone tournament you in?

At 2.000 points, I think it's fair to expect your opponent to be able to deal with 6 hullpoints worth of AV13, even if it's got a 4+ invul save and can't be one-shotted by a meltagun.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
grav could ruin him pretty quick since you know what's coming. Cents in pods can win on turn one if you roll well.

No they wouldn't. Grav works well against vehicles because subsequent immobilized results take of additional hullpoints. That doesn't work against a knight and to top it off the knight probably has got a 4+ invul save whereas other vehicles won't have any save most of the time.
3 Centurions might manage to strip 1-2 hullpoints from a knight, 3 at most.

Nothing is set in stone. We play purely because it's fun. Just proving a point to someone who in my opinion over reacted to their first taste of imperial might lol I have a force with 15 lascannons and 9 meltas and 3 assault centurions. Plus some plasma for the troops. Think it will be enough?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry 10 meltas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking use grav to concuss, melta and las, then centurions assault with a chaplain for the reroll. Good plan?

 Filch wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:grav could ruin him pretty quick since you know what's coming. Cents in pods can win on turn one if you roll well.

oldzoggy wrote:3 knights is no fun. The fact that grav spam and tournament armies can get them down doesn't make that casual armies have a decent method to get rid of them.

grav weaponry only works on vehicles on a roll of a 6s. 1s-5s do nothing. The 6s guarantee immobilize and takes a hp.

Good luck.

Much better off with melta.

Also, People I play with are ultra casual n tailor their list to fight me. Is this a set in stone tournament you in?

The reason grav cents are so tauted is the math: each shot fired at a vehicle has a 28.7% over-all chance to strip a hull point(and immobilize, which is worthless against shv but strips 2hp off other vehicles after the first damage) they also have 5 shots/model. So in the quick-and-dirty; a squad of 3 cents should reliably cause about 4 hull points per turn on a shv, or overkill other vehicles(ion shield for the knights can/will mitigate some of this)

If going into assaults afterwards, concussive should also be borne in mind.

I think at least one of the formations available to Knights still gives them a 3++ ion shield save.


Tyranids will have trouble breaking them. They have limited options to hurt a knight aside from winged hive tyrants (their answer to bloody everything these days) or melee - which is a problem because they strike first and can ginsu a monstrous creature in 2-3 hits.


The best answer tyranids have is a mix of zoanthropes and winged tyrants.

Hive tyrants have the agility to get side/rear armour shots (which with S6 devourers can actually glance a knight) plus electroshock grub attacks which can haywire a knight from any facing.

Plus, warp lance is very effective - firstly it's about the most powerful antitank weapon the bugs have, but secondly it's resolved in the psychic phase....which comes before the shooting phase.....therefore the knight doesn't get to move his ion shield until after it's resolved. Drop into a knight's side arc and lance the clanky bugger before he can react.

Most importantly, knights tend to struggle when engaging flying opponents.

Baronial Courts still get a 3++ if they are close enough to another knight.