Eldar vs Skyhammer

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**djones520**

So I'm curious how Eldar players counter grav heavy Sky Hammer lists. The only thing I've been able to think of is a huge Skyrunner Seer Council, but that depends on getting (and keeping) first turn. Otherwise everytime I've played it, I just lose 75% of my army in turn one.

**koooaei**

reserve?

**djones520**

Got to have enough survive to turn 2 in that case. In games i've played, that's a crap shoot.

**koooaei**

They still aren't all that devastating against things in cover or wave serpents. Get a 1-st priority sacraficial unit in a serpent - scythe guards. He'll have to waste all his devastators to get rid of them. Assault marines could be good in melee but they don't hold up all that well against real melee threats. Eldar have some.

Another thing is a vsg. Grav does nothing to vsg. But beware, it works both ways.

Or a bunker. Grav does nothing to bunker once again. So, 55 pts and you've got a 14-14-14 building that he can do nothing against.

**Skinnereal**

Warp Spiders, to bubble-wrap other units, and warp away when fired at?
Having a couple of bodyguard WraithLords or Wraithguard to scare the pods off a bit?

**AncientSkarbrand**

Sounds like you can just put a unit in a bunker and neuter sky hammer then with any army... couldn't you?

**Skinnereal**

Grenades and templates are good for clearing out juicy boxes like bunkers.
Space Marines always have grenades, and almost everyone who fits in a drop pod can take flamers.

I do like the WoM bunker, but I'm not sure how well it will hold up against a massed pod-drop.

**ryuken87**

Warp Spiders.

So long as you have a few LoS blockers you should be fine to hold your other units in reserve while you dance around the terrain. The Exarch allows you to automatically pass the 3d6 morale check. Worst comes to worst is you get charged meaning you're likely to lose some guys but an assault squad on the charge probably isn't going to destroy the unit before you hit and run out.

I played a recent game vs a Nemesis Strike force (2x DKs) and 2x Grav Cents in Pods. He killed 3 Spiders first turn.

**Martel732**

With reserve shenanigans and Wave Serpents, Eldar should have little trouble against Skyhammer. Hell, how many grav cannons does it take to down a single WK? Probably almost the entire formation. So marines are paying huge points to kill a single 300 pt model. That doesn't sound like it's going to work out for the marines at all.

**Drasius**

A full grav dev squad running ultramarine chapter tactics should do about 5.3 wounds to a wk, assuming it's in 4+ cover. Add a combi-grav and you should kill it on average.

I take a squad of multi-melta devs to counter exactly the vsg/bunker shenanigans listed here. You can still bring a unit of dev cents with your spare points to annihilate another target, especially with librarian support. They will drop a serpent, even after jinking and then your combat squadded bolter devs can ensure those scytheguard don't get to overwatch when the ASM charge them.

**Belly**

Spread out, deny him any multicharges.

In general, a MSU style army list works well, especially taking Eldar units with great mobility.

Drop-pod heavy lists are not mobile once they hit the table, and they don't have great range either. Usually, the Devs will be 1 Grav, 1 Multi-melta squad. So Turbo boost and run away when you can. Then you can pick them apart piecemeal.

When I first started playing against Drop-pods, I used to castle up in a corner, thinking he'd run out of room to stick pods down. The inverse is a better option. Spread out! Give yourself room to move and allow yourself to choose targets rather than be forced to shooting at a particular unit.

**Neophyte2012**

Martel732 wrote:
With reserve shenanigans and Wave Serpents, Eldar should have little trouble against Skyhammer. Hell, how many grav cannons does it take to down a single WK? Probably almost the entire formation. So marines are paying huge points to kill a single 300 pt model. That doesn't sound like it's going to work out for the marines at all.

That WK you encounter must be under the protection of Invisibility, otherwise, 4 grav cannon is roughly sufficient.

For eldar player, target saturation is the benefit, since most of the Eldar great unit like WK, WG, Scatbike and Wrap Spiders are "significantly" undercosted. It is also worth noting that the skyhammer lack durablity and mobility after they come in so are very vulnerable for their cost. So maybe just a bunch of Wrap Spiders in formation along with WK and WG in Wave Serpernt. Then put 15 Scatbikes, Jetseer council, Warwalkers in reserve. Sacrifice WK and WG to bait the skyhammer into the place you want, while your Wrap Spiders might survive and do retailation in your turn. When your jetbikes and walkers come in, you might just clean up the table and win.

**Skinnereal**

If you take Guardians, spread them out to deny anywhere to land a pod. Make sure there is no space left big enough for a pod to land, and it will have to land away from your important units.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Drasius wrote:
A full grav dev squad running ultramarine chapter tactics should do about 5.3 wounds to a wk, assuming it's in 4+ cover. Add a combi-grav and you should kill it on average.

If the Space Marine player isn't taking an Auspex (or Divination/Relics to ignore cover entirely) on the Devastator Sergeant there's something wrong, a 4+ cover shouldn't be happening.

**djones520**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Drasius wrote:
A full grav dev squad running ultramarine chapter tactics should do about 5.3 wounds to a wk, assuming it's in 4+ cover. Add a combi-grav and you should kill it on average.

If the Space Marine player isn't taking an Auspex (or Divination/Relics to ignore cover entirely) on the Devastator Sergeant there's something wrong, a 4+ cover shouldn't be happening.

His typical response to my knight is centurion dev with Chapter Master with an Auspex. 15 grav shots rerolling to hit, and wound, 5+ cover then 5+ fnp, there is no question the thing is going down.

**Martel732**

Conveniently, WK are priced to bring more than one. Or, the Eldar player just makes sure that's the only thing those grav cannons kill all game. Either way, it's game over for the marines. The WK is perfectly functional as a 300 pt bullet sponge that saves 900 pts of Eldar models from the same fate.

I've actually beaten Skyhammer as BA before. I've never beaten 7th ed Eldar or Gladius. I don't see how Eldar can have a problem with Skyhammer when they can kill have the marine list (or more) in their beta strike turn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Belly wrote:
Spread out, deny him any multicharges.

In general, a MSU style army list works well, especially taking Eldar units with great mobility.

Drop-pod heavy lists are not mobile once they hit the table, and they don't have great range either. Usually, the Devs will be 1 Grav, 1 Multi-melta squad. So Turbo boost and run away when you can. Then you can pick them apart piecemeal.

When I first started playing against Drop-pods, I used to castle up in a corner, thinking he'd run out of room to stick pods down. The inverse is a better option. Spread out! Give yourself room to move and allow yourself to choose targets rather than be forced to shooting at a particular unit.

I castle up so I can hide my list behind Rhinos.

**Nevelon**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Drasius wrote:
A full grav dev squad running ultramarine chapter tactics should do about 5.3 wounds to a wk, assuming it's in 4+ cover. Add a combi-grav and you should kill it on average.

If the Space Marine player isn't taking an Auspex (or Divination/Relics to ignore cover entirely) on the Devastator Sergeant there's something wrong, a 4+ cover shouldn't be happening.

Auspexes are special issue wargear, and not available to sergeants. Toss a HQ in the pod with them, and sure, but that’s not always an option.

**Red Corsair**

Grav cents with a chapter master in a pod is easily over 500 pts, honestly you should have no problem with trading a sub 300 point units for an HQ/HS/FA slot costing almost double. The next turn as other have said you should EASILY kill them or at least gut the unit and relocate. Also keep in mind that unit in particular is not skyhammer and MUST come in turn 1 if it is his only main list pod, meaning you can reserve it, but I would not bother.

Also if your seeing that he relies on grav too much, take a void shield generator and troll him

**shogun**

1: Defence line + comm
2: warp spiders behind defence line
3: D-weapon vault artillery weapon behind warp spiders and attach farseers if needed

gravv shooting against warp spiders -> go to ground
gravv shooting against artillery -> 5+ armor so not a lot of wounds. even possible to put the farseer upfront and take a wound (4+ inv save) before using Look out sire..

assault marines want to attack first turn? only possible to take on the warp spiders, and the will hit and run next turn..

**AlmightyWalrus**

Nevelon wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Drasius wrote:
A full grav dev squad running ultramarine chapter tactics should do about 5.3 wounds to a wk, assuming it's in 4+ cover. Add a combi-grav and you should kill it on average.

If the Space Marine player isn't taking an Auspex (or Divination/Relics to ignore cover entirely) on the Devastator Sergeant there's something wrong, a 4+ cover shouldn't be happening.

Auspexes are special issue wargear, and not available to sergeants. Toss a HQ in the pod with them, and sure, but that’s not always an option.

Whoops, so they are. Must've gotten them mixed up with the Armourium Cherub.

**Red Corsair**

shogun wrote:
1: Defence line + comm
2: warp spiders behind defence line
3: D-weapon vault artillery weapon behind warp spiders and attach farseers if needed

gravv shooting against warp spiders -> go to ground
gravv shooting against artillery -> 5+ armor so not a lot of wounds. even possible to put the farseer upfront and take a wound (4+ inv save) before using Look out sire..

assault marines want to attack first turn? only possible to take on the warp spiders, and the will hit and run next turn..

This works, so does allying in DE for a scalpel squadron to full reserve OR using a grotesqerie which laughs at grav AND asault marines. Then reserve the rest and counter punch.

Or if we are still using fortifications, a damned bastion laughs at grav as well. Fill it with D-scythe WG and laugh.

**Drasius**

Martel732 wrote:
I've actually beaten Skyhammer as BA before. I've never beaten 7th ed Eldar or Gladius. I don't see how Eldar can have a problem with Skyhammer when they can kill have the marine list (or more) in their beta strike turn. [/QUOTE ]

Because squishy eldar don't have interceptor and unlike BA, they don't want to be in combat. One of the things that you need to understand is that there are some lists that do well against certain lists but not others once you're out of the trash tier that csm, back and a select few others live in.

Skyhammer is one of those, against an army with little to no interceptor and stuff that isn't melee focused, it will do very well. BA, while not having interceptor, certainly aren't afraid of some ASM, so it's not that huge of a surprise that you can beat them. Eldar, bar a couple of... Eccentric builds, are not usually geared to shrug off 20 ASM when their main heavy hitters have the rug pulled out from under them.

**Martel732**

I'll concede that Eldar's often compete reliance on WK for assault protection makes Skyhammer more optimal against them than many other lists. Eldar aren't THAT squishy, but if they are punching, they aren't shooting.