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I just wondered if I missed something here. Last night, playing a game (as Tau), my Pirhana got rammed by a predator. I couldn't find anything that allowed me any kind of save, or way to avoid/evade the ram. Am I missing something?

Should I be able to jink, or move out of the way if i'm not immobilized?

It just felt wrong to me, although I suppose that comes from being on the wrong end of it.

Previous editions of the rules have included rules to allow Skimmers to 'dodge' being rammed, but those seem to be absent in 7th.

Nothing in the ramming rules prevents saves, but the trigger conditions for Jink would make it difficult for it to come into play - the opponent would have Intercept your vehicle (thus allowing you to Jink) or otherwise shot at it during your turn before attempting to ram.

That said, any 'static' saves are still usable, such as Stealth / Disruption Pods, and you still get your damage result (if any) on the enemy.

Ramming is nefed so much that you don't need a save ;_)

Its almost impossible to kill a non open topped vehicle by ramming it.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Ramming is nefed so much that you don't need a safe ;_)

Its almost impossible to kill a non open topped vehicle by ramming it.

You just need the new IG formations.


But seriously though, I have killed many an ork truck with my snapfiring vindicators =P


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is also my understanding that no saves were taken ... but maybe I am wrong, I will need to add this to the "things to read when I get home" queue.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
It is also my understanding that no saves were taken ...

It's an armour penetration roll, that will produce a glancing or penetrating hit, meaning you can save against it. The ramming rules don't mention not being able to take a save, and it's clearly not a close combat attack to benefit from the default Ignores Cover rule on melee attacks.

More logical in the case of invulnerables (Contemptor Dreadnoughts, or Sisters of Battle vehicles), but RAW still works for cover saves that aren't based on obscurement.

 Quanar wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
It is also my understanding that no saves were taken ...

It's an armour penetration roll, that will produce a glancing or penetrating hit, meaning you can save against it. The ramming rules don't mention not being able to take a save, and it's clearly not a close combat attack to benefit from the default Ignores Cover rule on melee attacks.

More logical in the case of invulnerables (Contemptor Dreadnoughts, or Sisters of Battle vehicles), but RAW still works for cover saves that aren't based on obscurement.

Fair enough! Yeah I would say if that is how it reads, you would get any usual cover/invul saves. But as you are not being targeted.. I would say no jink allowed.. hmm yeah I don't really want to get into it with anyone about that. XD

 Grizzyzz wrote:
You just need the new IG formations.
But seriously though, I have killed many an ork truck with my snapfiring vindicators =P

The IG formation ramming bonus doesn't actually help to ram. Leman Russes already ram at Str 10, and as Str 10 is the highest it is unaffected by the "bonus" from the formation*.

Unless that was the joke, in which case, ignore me.

*Except in the special case where the frontal armour is reduced by 2 or more (perhaps like the cold scarabs?), or in cases where some kind of shield reduces the impact strength (and functions even against ramming).

Mallich wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
You just need the new IG formations.
But seriously though, I have killed many an ork truck with my snapfiring vindicators =P

The IG formation ramming bonus doesn't actually help to ram. Leman Russes already ram at Str 10, and as Str 10 is the highest it is unaffected by the "bonus" from the formation*.

The ram bonus helps the chimera you have in the formation

@ Crownaxe, somewhat offtopic:

Mallich wrote:
@ Crownaxe, somewhat offtopic:

Spoiler:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The ram bonus helps the chimera you have in the formation

I think that the formation is just Leman Russes and enginseers, and that enginseers can't take dedicated transports.

my bad. Mixed up the CCS w/ Chimera from the artillery formation

Enginseers can take Trojan Support Vehicles from Imperial Armour 1 as Dedicated Transports though, which are only AV10 so it helps there.

They should have just fully copied the Apocalypse Formation it was based on. The Tank Shock/Ram bonus there is that you get to roll on the Thunderblitz table, which would be infinitely superior to the Mont'ka one.

It's funny too. Since in order to Tank Shock you must be a tank. In order to Ram, you must be able to Tank Shock. Which means anything that can ram gets a +1 to its strength.

Lendys wrote:
It's funny too. Since in order to Tank Shock you must be a tank. In order to Ram, you must be able to Tank Shock. Which means anything that can ram gets a +1 to its strength.

The modifiers are also for the recoil hit you take. So if you rammed a non-tank vehicle the recoil doesn't get that +1

Lendys wrote:
It's funny too. Since in order to Tank Shock you must be a tank. In order to Ram, you must be able to Tank Shock. Which means anything that can ram gets a +1 to its strength.

One exception that comes to mind is Dark Eldar vehicles equipped with a Shock Prow.

Dra'al Nacht wrote:

Lendys wrote:
It's funny too. Since in order to Tank Shock you must be a tank. In order to Ram, you must be able to Tank Shock. Which means anything that can ram gets a +1 to its strength.

One exception that comes to mind is Dark Eldar vehicles equipped with a Shock Prow.

Some non tank Ork vehicles can ram as well with the right upgrade.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Quanar wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
It is also my understanding that no saves were taken ...

It's an armour penetration roll, that will produce a glancing or penetrating hit, meaning you can save against it. The ramming rules don't mention not being able to take a save, and it's clearly not a close combat attack to benefit from the default Ignores Cover rule on melee attacks.

More logical in the case of invulnerables (Contemptor Dreadnoughts, or Sisters of Battle vehicles), but RAW still works for cover saves that aren't based on obscurement.

Fair enough! Yeah I would say if that is how it reads, you would get any usual cover/invul saves. But as you are not being targeted.. I would say no jink allowed.. hmm yeah I don't really want to get into it with anyone about that. XD

If you jinked when something else fired at you in the same phase, you should be able to take that save against a tank shock.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
If you jinked when something else fired at you in the same phase, you should be able to take that save against a tank shock.

I tried earlier to think of an example. Can you think of something that shoots during a player's movement phase? Jink lasts until the start of that player's next movement phase, which is why I mentioned Interceptor.

 Quanar wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
If you jinked when something else fired at you in the same phase, you should be able to take that save against a tank shock.

I tried earlier to think of an example. Can you think of something that shoots during a player's movement phase? Jink lasts until the start of that player's next movement phase, which is why I mentioned Interceptor.

I was under the impression Tank Shock occurs in the shooting phase instead of a flat-out?

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
I was under the impression Tank Shock occurs in the shooting phase instead of a flat-out?

A ram is a special type of tank shock, and tank shock which requires at least Combat Speed.

Is a vehicle classed as moving "combat speed" when flat-out-ing? Debatable: The section in question classes any vehicle moving at least 6" as moving combat speed, but that section is named "Vehicles in the Movement Phase".

IMO, this means it can only occur in the movement phase, you are not allowed to ram as part of a flat-out.

See, this is why I shouldn't go to YMDC when I'm at work and can't check my sources

Yup, ramming can only occur in the movement phase, and follows the same restrictions as tank shock.

Some things to keep in mind regarding that:

Ramming has an effective range of 12"

You always count as moving top speed when ramming, so even if you only move 1", you count as moving 12" for the purposes of firing weapons (both from the vehicle and passengers) after.

Models cannot embark or disembark from a vehicle that rams/preforms a tank shock.

Near as I can tell, you don't get a cover save as it's not a shooting attack.