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But if there are other factions available, how is it a valid criticism? If you don't like PA, you don't have to -play- PA, so there could be 3000 PA factions but as long as there are options for you to play what you like, what do you care?

It ISN'T a criticism, that's what you're not getting. Saying that 30k is a majority power armor game isn't a negative, it's an objective statement about the factions of the game. If anything, the whole PA vs PA comment was directed at the fact that GW is being intelligent in what it does best (making Space Marines) because the sales of Marines continue to stay very strong.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if there are other factions available, how is it a valid criticism? If you don't like PA, you don't have to -play- PA, so there could be 3000 PA factions but as long as there are options for you to play what you like, what do you care?

Because while I enjoy playing PA, I don't enjoy facing nothing but PA?

I love how Alpha legion plays in the rules, but locally it's only Chaos players and a few loyalists who got into the game at all. If it merged with 40k officially I'd be more into it.

Akiasura wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if there are other factions available, how is it a valid criticism? If you don't like PA, you don't have to -play- PA, so there could be 3000 PA factions but as long as there are options for you to play what you like, what do you care?

Because while I enjoy playing PA, I don't enjoy facing nothing but PA?

I love how Alpha legion plays in the rules, but locally it's only Chaos players and a few loyalists who got into the game at all. If it merged with 40k officially I'd be more into it.

Ah, that's part of the problem. We never even questioned that it could be played alongside 40k in both of the local metas I've been in. Like, it hasn't even been raised as a concern in either one. I recently allied myself with another Mechanicum player (though he was playing Taghmata, not Reductor) against Necrons and Tau, for example.

 Polonius wrote:
There's more 40k activity here in Baltimore than there was in Cleveland, despite there being roughly the same density of gaming stores. Compared to Ohio, I almost always see 40k being played when I pop into a FLGS.

When it comes to Wargaming in general the Balt-Washington metro area suffers from an embarrassment of riches. I think it's all that DoD presence in the area.

Thimn wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
There's more 40k activity here in Baltimore than there was in Cleveland, despite there being roughly the same density of gaming stores. Compared to Ohio, I almost always see 40k being played when I pop into a FLGS.

Recess misses you! Hope to see you again at Adepticon.

-Josh

I'll be there! Probably not playing 40k unless something major shifts, but I'll be there all four days.

Akiasura wrote:
Well, a series is of course going to be a knock off to some extent. It'll have the same setting and some characters will make appearances.
That being said, each DA game has had vastly different gameplay and story (which can be bad, YMMV).
DA Origins was like baldur's gate in a way, a open world map that focused on strategy and tactics. It was pretty much turn based though you could play it real time.
DA 2 had cross-class combos being the biggest things, but lost the open world nature. Combat is much faster and brutal in this game, and magic is strong but not OP.
DA 3 has DA 2 combat style with DA 1 open world style. For some reason they dropped the ability to program the computer, which lowers the quality imo, but the dragon fights are epics.

But they certainly aren't knock offs. You can't import strategy and tactics from 1 to 2 or 3, and vice versa.
BG 2 is more of a knock-off from BG 1 than the DA games are. And the BG series is amazing.

Maybe knock-off is a bad word and comes off in a derogatory way, though I don't mean it that way. I do enjoy sequels, and I buy them, which is why the game manufacturers make them.

What I intend to say is that there is a lack of fresh ideas that change the way I game, in the way that Diablo 2 made me rethink action isometric dungeon crawler; the way Civilization made me rethink action; the way Doom invented FPS, the way that Halo redefined for me, what to expect of the storytelling FPS. Personally, Titanfall was probably the freshest recent game that I can think of, with brilliant use of 3D maps, and interesting ways to play inside and outside of titans in the same game.

To me, most games that come out clearly fall into the categories of FPS, RTS, TBS, etc. and are just like some other game with a little better or little worse interface, different graphics, and different story. The industry isn't like it was in the 80's, 90's and even early 2000's, where the leaps in generations of games was stunning -- which, I understand, is something that will happen as an industry matures. I don't mind sequels -- I LIKE sequels -- but I'd like to see fresh ideas too!

I look forward to technology that makes it so that computer gaming again goes through vast leaps, for instance, with Microsoft Hololens. I can really imagine something like Hololens working for tabletop wargaming too. How cool would it be to play someone else a wargame where only YOUR models are real; the other models, and the terrain, and your opponent are projected holograms? You'd never get me out of my man-cave!

Akiasura wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Divinity: Original Sin (knock-off of Diablo)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA No.
I can only assume you haven't played the game. At all. I can think of other games that this has more in common with (Arcanum springs to mind)...diablo is almost the opposite of this game outside of 1 part.

Yes, fair enough I have only seen the videos, upon which I based my buying decision (boxing day sale). It looks like a great game, and in the videos, it looks Diablo-esque. I haven't even downloaded it, though, I bought it.

I also bought Mordheim, because it was on sale, but I don't know if I'll play it. I'm not a big fan of my heroes permanently dying.

Anyhow, bringing this around to the original subject -- just for me, I've spent a lot more time on hobby and gaming, of which 40k is my central obsession, partly because I perceive video games to be a lot of rehashes, and I'm less excited about video game releases now than I was a decade or two decades ago.

How is Mordenheim? I was debating buying it after the bloodbowl game, which I thought was really well done, but have heard mixed reviews. Apparently Vermintide is excellent.


I really cant give Divinity enough praise, it's a great game, especially the enhanced edition (Which you should get for free if you purchased the game).

If I came off abrasive, my apologies. Parents whose children have failed my class can get...annoying after a while.

Wondering who is in an area where the hobby is flourishing.

It's alive, people still play it, but it's stagnating and definately not flourishing, especially when you compare it to how big it was 6-7 years ago. Then 6th Ed hit in a combination with GW pissing off one of the local retailers, which had the effect that he wasn't actively promoting the game anymore, which led to a stop in new gamers in combination with old gamers switching to other tabletops.

Flames of War, Infinity, Bolt action, FFGs X-Wing, Warmachine....those I'd call flourishing on a local level, 40k not so much.

The F? That is terrible! How the hell can people be okay with that? Chinese recasting should literally be destroyed. Counterfeiting is against the law, as is shipping counterfeit goods. It is not a crime to buy counterfeit goods, but if you know they are counterfeit they are evidence of a crime and should be taken from you. Knowingly possessing or purchasing counterfeit goods can be criminal depending on the case and it is DEFINITELY criminal to EVER resell them.

How the hell people can "thank" counterfeiters when it is so clearly against the law and immoral is beyond me. Many stores will not allow counterfeited goods to be used and some of these stores will confiscate them if they believe the person in possession knows they are counterfeit and will usually ban the person from the store.

How has nobody in this thread addressed this?

Is it just me or does it seem very hypocritical, that someone is throwing a fit about the legality and morality of copyright infringement, while at the same time sporting an avatar alongside a link to a pirated clip from a TV show, thereby violating copyrights as well?

Flourishing? More like stagnating.
But fun? Not for me. I'm a fluff driven narrative type gamer and it was the poor rules that kicked me out of that immersion. Exp: when a unit is described as thus, but the rules don't match. Loyalists summoning deamons? No.
Also, I like the game centered around heroes, characters and grunts that outperform their role. Now it's just about the biggest models you can squeeze on the table.

The scene is growing in my area. There used to be 1 flgs, but in the last year and a half there have been 2 more flgs that opened. There are tournaments every month, and an escalation league just started.

As 40k makes up the majority of GW sales.And GW sales volumes are STILL falling.

I would say 40k is floundering , and found to be not much fun by more people, than those that are having positive experiences with it.

Many people who enjoy playing games , prefer rules written for game play, rather than short term marketing. So 40k does not appeal to them.

As GW sales volumes fall prices will rise.And as GW have not come up with any thing other than price rises to combat falling sales volumes for the last decade.
I am not optimistic of GW corporate management taking any of the required actions any time soon.

AoS is gaining some steam here in Amsterdam south, but 40K is still going strong. Just 2 weeks ago there was this huge 3v3 game with a Warhound Titan involved in it.

Got a pretty strong presence in the greater Cleveland area (north east Ohio) I have a monthly get together at my house that varies (due to the season) from 4-10 players and I'm part of a Facebook group for the area that has somewhere around 130 people in it with about 70 people getting games in regularly. The fact that a large part of the Facebook group are actually "emmisaries" from other groups where the other members haven't joined yet is pretty significant.

So, yeah, doing fine up here by the lake

My store is slowly declining as far as our 40k group goes. My close friends have quit, my girlfriend has quit, I've all but quit, and a few other people either don't play anymore or have sold their armies entirely.

It's still flourishing here. We had a nice gaming day at Dec 30, with two games 2v2, 3000 pts per player, so 6000 pts per side, maelstrom missions. I played WE 30k led by Angron. We will repeat this format next time. It's still fun to play but maybe not at the competitive level. We will not organize tourneys in the near future.

@Xcaliber

Purely out of curiosity, when you say "lists are tightly controlled," you mean that if the group feels a list is unfun or overpowered, that player must change their list? How is that a good state-of-the-game? If someone new joins your group and doesn't want to play that way, are they simply out of luck?
I'm not trying to be snide, but when I see people post stuff like this as though it shows the great health of the game, all I can think of is how fractured the community is...

We usually come with one or two lists we test during two or three games, just to see whether we're in line with the league level. The goal of this level is not to ban units people don't like, it's to make the game funny for everyone. I mean if you want to play scatbikes, a tau hammerhead or a drop pod with melta marines, it's fine, but you'll have to make a balance with the rest of the list so beginners and low-tier codexes can have a chance against you.
The admin is not all-powerful. People exchange and discuss after every match. All we're trying to do is to fix the shortcomings of the game in a way that suits our 20persons group. We're not a bunch of Nazis like Too Fast said it very stupidly.
@TooFast

If the game was so great, you wouldn't need a list Nazi limiting the points to lower than some individual models, having to approve or limit every unit in the game down to basic troops, etc. 650 is an HQ and 2 min units of thallax for my 30k army. Oh wait, my army would probably be banned even though I've spent hundreds of £s on authentic FW models and painted them to a high standard. Your group sounds awesome!

As a matter of fact, if GW would have born the cost of making balanced rules, we would not have had reach the point we have to do it on our own. 40k is nice in our area because we managed to have a league where every match is closely disputed. Your aggressive claims have strictly no bases since strong units can be fielded + we're not currently adapting our rules for 30k units. Nobody fields such minis atm but I’m sure they would be able to do it if they comply with basic requirements (points, scenario and list level). We would not want you to cry because you can’t play your soooo expansive little soldiers; this would not be very gentle would not it be?


@Makumba.

Ok, I thought that control ment checking if armies are legal etc. Do you guys use a pre made comp or is it made ad hoc before evry game. Also are your tables smaller then 4x4. Because I play IG too and i find them realy slow compering to all other armies. Even tau seem to be faster with all the infiltration and jet pack movment they have,

Actually, as we're playing small games, it's not very important if your list is too strong for once. We don't have a comp system, it's just overall cooperation that make each codex roughly equal. Then, there are different level of skill among our gamers, so we're not like : "wow you won 5 to 1 this time, nerf your list".

Well, here is a short tale to tell.

I recently moved country again in the last three months. I decided to check out the local GW in the hope that they allowed people to play in store on their tables (the GW where I had come from didn't allow people to play unless they bought stuff that day equal to or over a couple of pots of paint OR were having an introducionary games).

I eventually found the store - the front being only a window wide with a side door. Inside I discovered the store is actually quite long and has a lot on the shelves PLUS three decent sized tables! The store manager looked a bit surprised when I came over to speak to him and the other guy there (they were playing a game).

Anyway, ended up in a discussion that ended up more of a monologue from the non-GW person. They did allow people to play in store who are part of their club - EXCELLENT! They also have a long track recored of winning in local competitions - EVEN BETTER! People who know what they're doing who I could potentially learn from....

And that was when the monologue started... here are some low-lights

"we are the best because we love working out how to break the codices" - that was when I then actually paid attention to what was on the board. One side had Eldar bikes and a farseer council and a centurion deathstar thing and a load of thunderfire cannons. The other had 3 tau riptides and a swarm of Daemons being summoned and other stuff I can't recall.

"Oh you play chaos, haha they're gak right now, I used to play has but they're useless - do you have anything good?"

"We meet up and use math hammer to work out how to get the most for the points before we play before a tournament"

"Space marines can be good, what you got?..... my tau would intercept and destroy all your army before they arrived, drop pod lists aren't competitive - why don't you ally with *something I can't remember that was a massive abuse of the fluff*"


I eventually managed to break away and make my excuses. I've not been back since. In the meanwhile, I now have four x6 point saga armies nearly completed and a sweet converted realm of battle board that's being used for other game systems (use to be a bombed out city with skulls, now it's grassy countryside with saxon settlements

Since then, I visited a FLGS 30min drive away - one of the club's that was mentioned as getting crushed. Nice chaps, friendly atmosphere and everyone was playing.... XWING. Okay I can't stand Starwars as it's everywhere and I'm bored with it BUT, they were also playing other games like Frostgrave and KoW. From talking to them, I learned that many of them were moving on from GW and couldn't be arsed with the Pay-to-win style of gaming promoted.

GW was flourishing in one store in a hyper-competitive WAAC environment where people were popping boners over crushing others. GW was not flourishing in the store where people wanted balance and casual games.

 Wulfmar wrote:
GW was flourishing in one store in a hyper-competitive WAAC environment where people were popping boners over crushing others. GW was not flourishing in the store where people wanted balance and casual games.

The grand irony of GW's 'we are a model company, not a rules company' philosophy is that broken, abusable, rules attract WAAC players and fluffy/hobby gamers are driven away when their cool theme army can't win games (all termi ultramarines) or is considered 'mean' to bring to a fun game (eldar jetbikes).

Definitely. Having an active tournament scene now, and multiple smaller groups that play together. Our group even has it's own rented gaming space with 3 tables full of terrain and a few armies that anyone can borrow.

There's a few people who are bit too much on the "live to win" -side for my taste, but I play them occasionally just to try out ridiculous lists. Also got a few campaigns annually.

So all in all, thriving and fun.

The grand irony of GW's 'we are a model company, not a rules company' philosophy is that broken, abusable, rules attract WAAC players and fluffy/hobby gamers are driven away when their cool theme army can't win games (all termi ultramarines) or is considered 'mean' to bring to a fun game (eldar jetbikes).

This.

I guess if I am in a nice gaming group, that's because we are really attached to the fluff in general and we want casual games. I feel like we're an endangered specie because the huge majority of the store's customers are playing Magic, WMH, Infinity or X-wing. We have to actively search for players on French fora to maintain our numbers, which are increasing very slowly. And I don't think it is because of our houserules as you can come and play big battles if you like to.

40k is hardly flourishing in my area because only a few players are following the path of the pay-per-win.

It's going well, but interestingly Warmahordes has as many players for the national championships, but I've yet to meet one!

I live in a small town in northeastern Alabama. We have a population of about 5,000 and I am almost certain I am the ONLY 40k player living here. In fact, just mentioning wargaming is certain to raise many a brow around these parts. Anniston and Gadsden are the only cities within a convenient drive, each possessing 1 FLGS each and no presence of 40k whatsoever; it's either MtG or FFG's X-Wing. Not a fan of card games or Star Wars.

I DID have an opponent but he was so WAAC, he couldn't be arsed to even paint his army. He just wanted his greys to stomp you.

I haven't been in the mood to play video games in a while, but I think I am going to upgrade the GPU on my PC so I can play SOMETHING before the boredom of this place kills me. I envy you guys in the northeast States, Canada, and Europe.

 Secrets of the Machine wrote:
I live in a small town in northeastern Alabama. We have a population of about 5,000 and I am almost certain I am the ONLY 40k player living here. In fact, just mentioning wargaming is certain to raise many a brow around these parts. Anniston and Gadsden are the only cities within a convenient drive, each possessing 1 FLGS each and no presence of 40k whatsoever; it's either MtG or FFG's X-Wing. Not a fan of card games or Star Wars.

I DID have an opponent but he was so WAAC, he couldn't be arsed to even paint his army. He just wanted his greys to stomp you.

I haven't been in the mood to play video games in a while, but I think I am going to upgrade the GPU on my PC so I can play SOMETHING before the boredom of this place kills me. I envy you guys in the northeast States, Canada, and Europe.

There aren't many rural Southern towns with that kind of population that are thriving hubs for 40k. However, Birmingham has a decent amount of FLGS and also a GW. There's the redstone rumble in Huntsville every October. There's a lot of places to play if you're willing to drive to civilization.

 Toofast wrote:

 Secrets of the Machine wrote:
I live in a small town in northeastern Alabama. We have a population of about 5,000 and I am almost certain I am the ONLY 40k player living here. In fact, just mentioning wargaming is certain to raise many a brow around these parts. Anniston and Gadsden are the only cities within a convenient drive, each possessing 1 FLGS each and no presence of 40k whatsoever; it's either MtG or FFG's X-Wing. Not a fan of card games or Star Wars.

I DID have an opponent but he was so WAAC, he couldn't be arsed to even paint his army. He just wanted his greys to stomp you.

I haven't been in the mood to play video games in a while, but I think I am going to upgrade the GPU on my PC so I can play SOMETHING before the boredom of this place kills me. I envy you guys in the northeast States, Canada, and Europe.

There aren't many rural Southern towns with that kind of population that are thriving hubs for 40k. However, Birmingham has a decent amount of FLGS and also a GW. There's the redstone rumble in Huntsville every October. There's a lot of places to play if you're willing to drive to civilization.

I was actually considering a shop (Bud's Place or Bud's Hobbies, I think?) just outside Birmingham. I think I am going to give it a whirl because I am not doing myself any favors over here. I've never heard of redstone rumble, but I'd definitely make the trip to Huntsville every October to play. Does usually have a large amount of players?

In Brisbane, we not have 3 Games Workshop stores as well as a bunch of FLGS stocking it.

My gaming club ebbs and wains but there are about 4 other major clubs around the city (that do 40k regularly or with 2 new ones just starting recently with heaps of interest (50-90 people).

30k is also revitalizing the hobby, as well as KoW.

Bud's place in Leeds. I don't go there much because gw, excelsior and legion are all much closer to me. Redstone had a pretty good turnout the past 2 years and is growing.

 Kr00gZ wrote:
In Brisbane, we not have 3 Games Workshop stores as well as a bunch of FLGS stocking it.

My gaming club ebbs and wains but there are about 4 other major clubs around the city (that do 40k regularly or with 2 new ones just starting recently with heaps of interest (50-90 people).

30k is also revitalizing the hobby, as well as KoW.

Really? I find that interesting because I'm on the Gold Coast and only ever get as far north as Ace Comics at Annerly, who I know sell it but I'm not sure what the actual gaming situation is like there. South of it is Irresistible Force where GW seems to be as good as dead, then a Good Games which has people trying to push 40k but it's not taking off, and then only a shoe box of a GW store to actually consistently play in until you hit the NSW boarder.
Do you know how popular other stuff is further north? I know Infinity is played at Annerly and there are a couple of clubs that will come south for KoW or Warmahordes tourneys (Blind Pig or something might be one of them?)

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Kr00gZ wrote:
In Brisbane, we not have 3 Games Workshop stores as well as a bunch of FLGS stocking it.

My gaming club ebbs and wains but there are about 4 other major clubs around the city (that do 40k regularly or with 2 new ones just starting recently with heaps of interest (50-90 people).

30k is also revitalizing the hobby, as well as KoW.

Really? I find that interesting because I'm on the Gold Coast and only ever get as far north as Ace Comics at Annerly, who I know sell it but I'm not sure what the actual gaming situation is like there. South of it is Irresistible Force where GW seems to be as good as dead, then a Good Games which has people trying to push 40k but it's not taking off, and then only a shoe box of a GW store to actually consistently play in until you hit the NSW boarder.
Do you know how popular other stuff is further north? I know Infinity is played at Annerly and there are a couple of clubs that will come south for KoW or Warmahordes tourneys (Blind Pig or something might be one of them?)

At Annerly, across the road from Ace, is The Junction pub, which where Pubhammer is held every Sunday night (except tonight or when there are other functions on). This is my main club I attent at the moment and there is usually a few guys willing to play (6 - 10) regularly. There is a mix on competitive and friendly players from all around. Some travel from Far west, GC & North side to attend. Plenty of board games to fill in time while waiting for tables, too. We are just finishing out a 40k league from last year and then will be looking to start up another very soon. We play 1750 - 2500 points, but smaller games are welcome. We try to do at least 2 big Apoc games a year as well. And...there is great food and beer!

B.I.G (haven't been to any of their events in ages) used to do a fair bit of 40k. Up north (Caboolture & North Lakes) you have Northern Knights (been around for ages) and Gamer's Lodge (very new but generating a lot of interest).

Another monthly even will be starting up soon, as well, but details are a little sketchy at the moment. From what I hear it will be Tournaments + Leagues with GW backing (??!!!!??) but no idea of location, currently.

You don't play at any of the GW stores? Mt Gravatt is very popular and holds regular events, too.

Most of the clubs i've mentioned have Facebook pages. I can link them if you'd like, they they should be easy to find.

 Kr00gZ wrote:

You don't play at any of the GW stores? Mt Gravatt is very popular and holds regular events, too.

Back when i played GW games regularly I did love the battle bunker at Mt. Gravatt, but since then they have replaced all of their great old tables with realm of battle boards and removed all the old terrain (fun fact, the first time I had been in there since that happened the new WD had an article from Jervis about how great it is we don't have to play on green mats thrown over our parents books to make hills anymore. That stung a little.)
They also picked up a manager that we had here when the CG store opened and I really can't stand that guy.

Since we've had a couple of good managers locally, but with all of 1 table in a shoe box it's not worth trying to play there. I've enjoyed their painting comps though