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Psienesis wrote: C'Tan aren't actually gods. The Necrontyr simply called them that for awhile, until they knew better. It should also be noted that almost all of the C'Tan are sharded now.
They aren't warp entities, but I'd still call them gods, in the same way Khaine is considered one. These were beings that fought Eldar gods to a draw in the War in Heavens.
Chaos Spawn wrote: His copyright was lost to a comic book company so he doesn't exist any more, but he used to in 2nd edition or somewhere around there.
He hasn't existed ever
Necoho is the chaos god of unbelief, thus he himself does not exist and has no followers
fixed that for you.
rights to Malal were lost, GW replaced him with Malice - GW continuing to come up with unimaginative names - for 40k hence the chaos warband known as The Sons of Malice.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
Chaos Spawn wrote: His copyright was lost to a comic book company so he doesn't exist any more, but he used to in 2nd edition or somewhere around there.
He hasn't existed ever
Necoho is the chaos god of unbelief, thus he himself does not exist and has no followers
fixed that for you.
rights to Malal were lost, GW replaced him with Malice - GW continuing to come up with unimaginative names - for 40k hence the chaos warband known as The Sons of Malice.
Necoho was recconned. Malice still exists
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
Reality bending doesn't make you a god, creating a complete reality, as in universe, makes you a god, creating actual life, physics etc. Makes you a god, being the master of the physical realm that was created by someone else doesn't make you a god, for both deamons and c'tan, deamons are created by sentient races, thus are slaves, they cannot create realities, just warp what's already there, c'tan as far as I'm aware cannot do any of the above, Necrons can enter other dimensions, that's about it, also, immortality, which not a single "god" in 40k has.
They are all just vastly powerful beings in there own right.
Monotheism Vs. Polytheism (and other similar types)
In many polytheism religions (not all) the universe was already in existence, no "god" created it, it just was. Sometimes gods were mortals that attained godhood, sometimes they were born of unknown origin or by other super beings that were as constant as the universe. So, again it depends on how you define a god. Since this is a Sci-Fi, with a little Fantasy, genre and polytheism seems to be the trend across most races. They are Gods and creating reality or even life is not needed.
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though, if something created you, or you later attained the level of a god, you are still not a god, just a supremely powerful mortal, even the chaos gods will die one day, the C'tan will too if ever released, gods are eternal, false gods die.
While on the subject, what have any of these gods actually done? What godlike acts have they actually achieved?
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though
...why? You still owe us an actual, global definition of what makes a god...
I've already provided my criteria of what I'd consider a god.
Eternal, cannot die or be harmed in any way.
Created the universe, all the things in it and is responsible for everything that can happen, or does happen.
Omnipotent.
Omnipresent.
Controls or influences all of reality.
Anything less that this that exists as part of the universe would have been created by this/these gods, are not gods, but constructs of a god like being.
The C'tan are not gods in any shape or form, they are parasites that fed on star matter, so are animals of some type, they are given bodies and sentience by the necrontyr. They become vastly powerful and able to bend reality at a whim, they bend the rules, not create them, they are then broken by the Necrons, or killed, so mortal, mortals or not gods, even if very powerful.
Chaos gods are nothing, they came from raw emotion, these emotions formed swells jn the warp, they got larges and formed vortices in the Warp, this pulled in other emotions/ideas/concepts etc. And the vortex grew, at some point they gained a form of sentience, but are still slaves to thier own nature, the largest of these vortices are the chaos gods, others have become almost as big, challenging the big 4, one was killed and it's followers and body were expelled from the warp, as it was dead, so even these "gods" can die, remove thier source of power and they will also die, not gods.
Eldar gods are the same, all are dead or broken.
Emperor was never a god.
Gork and mork are ork versions of the chaos gods.
The hive mind is not a god, but a semi sentient combination of all the creatures that make it up, like the chaos gods.
There are no gods jn 40k (that we know of) only parasites masquerading as gods to sustain themselves or are broken.
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though
...why? You still owe us an actual, global definition of what makes a god...
I've already provided my criteria of what I'd consider a god.
Eternal, cannot die or be harmed in any way. Created the universe, all the things in it and is responsible for everything that can happen, or does happen. Omnipotent. Omnipresent. Controls or influences all of reality.
By this definition, you'd rule out all polytheistic religions there are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/01 22:03:51
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though
...why? You still owe us an actual, global definition of what makes a god...
I've already provided my criteria of what I'd consider a god.
Eternal, cannot die or be harmed in any way.
Created the universe, all the things in it and is responsible for everything that can happen, or does happen.
Omnipotent.
Omnipresent.
Controls or influences all of reality.
By this definition, you'd rule out all polytheistic religions there are.
Agreed, these are silly criteria for a God. There are FAR more religions that have a pantheon of Gods rather than just one, your view is way to exclusive.
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though
...why? You still owe us an actual, global definition of what makes a god...
I've already provided my criteria of what I'd consider a god.
Eternal, cannot die or be harmed in any way.
Created the universe, all the things in it and is responsible for everything that can happen, or does happen.
Omnipotent.
Omnipresent.
Controls or influences all of reality.
By this definition, you'd rule out all polytheistic religions there are.
Yeah that's right, just my opinion of it, the way I see it is this, can it be achieved through technology or evolution, it's not really a god, just a very advanced creature, you can disagree and that's fine
I would assume Gork and Mork exist as a sort of Warp entities from the collective psychic and emotional output from all the Orks just as the Chaos gods are formed from the different collective emotions of other races. Not sure why exactly Gork and Mork are separated from the Chaos Gods but it probably has to do with Orks not having the same mind set as other races. Orks love for all orky and their general lack of chaos related feelings is probably why the emotions and thoughts of the Orks empower Gork and Mork.
Also to note that in the older fluff there was other Ork gods such as Bork but they haven't been included in the fluff for a long time.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
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3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
Assigning your own personal attributes to what is considered a God or not is all well and good. Its very useful in many social, theological, and hypothetical situations.
However, when discussing a work of fiction, when it comes to what is or what is not a God is pretty much up to the author. Period. You have to respect the work as the absolute final word, because it is the authors world, not yours or mine. The world and all who reside in it are purely theirs and all we can do is go along for the ride. So when they say so and so is a God, all you can do is nod and go with the flow.
Now that isn't to say you can't talk about how their Gods are depicted, flawed, or manhandeled. Especially if its obvious they are parities or inspired by other established deities from other works or established religions. But you can't say that their deities are not Gods when they are clearly said to be so.
So along those lines the four main Chaos Gods are Gods in the world of Warhammer 40K. As are Gork and Mork and Kaine and many other beings that have been said to be Gods.
You have to respect the work and the mechanics of the fictional world, no matter how badly written it may or may not be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/03 04:09:42
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
Chaos Spawn wrote: His copyright was lost to a comic book company so he doesn't exist any more, but he used to in 2nd edition or somewhere around there.
He hasn't existed ever
Necoho is the chaos god of unbelief, thus he himself does not exist and has no followers
fixed that for you.
rights to Malal were lost, GW replaced him with Malice - GW continuing to come up with unimaginative names - for 40k hence the chaos warband known as The Sons of Malice.
Necoho was recconned. Malice still exists
I have never seen anything that says that Malice is the god of unbelief. Mostly just anarchy and terror. Could you provide something that indicates he took on the aspect of unbelief as well?
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
Jayden63 wrote: Assigning your own personal attributes to what is considered a God or not is all well and good. Its very useful in many social, theological, and hypothetical situations.
However, when discussing a work of fiction, when it comes to what is or what is not a God is pretty much up to the author. Period. You have to respect the work as the absolute final word, because it is the authors world, not yours or mine. The world and all who reside in it are purely theirs and all we can do is go along for the ride. So when they say so and so is a God, all you can do is nod and go with the flow.
Now that isn't to say you can't talk about how their Gods are depicted, flawed, or manhandeled. Especially if its obvious they are parities or inspired by other established deities from other works or established religions. But you can't say that their deities are not Gods when they are clearly said to be so.
So along those lines the four main Chaos Gods are Gods in the world of Warhammer 40K. As are Gork and Mork and Kaine and many other beings that have been said to be Gods.
You have to respect the work and the mechanics of the fictional world, no matter how badly written it may or may not be.
Well put, but the thing is, we have a universe full of slaves, ignorant masses, and basically fools.
And the whole thing is heavily biased to whatever faction your Codex is about (usually), so of course the Eldar think they have gods, they don't know any better, same with humanity and chaos/emperor.
The C'tan are categorically not gods, they can be called such by the author, but that doesn't make it so, all evidence in there own fluff shows them to not be gods, just very powerful beings.
Ynnead -God of death, unborn. (-may be the Emperor).
I have to ask where this idea comes from; it seems a bit farfetched. As far as I knew the Corpse Emperor was siting upon his Golden throne and Ynnead was being formed within the Craftworlds Infinity Circuits and by extension the Webway. Ynnead is being formed using Eldar soul’s not human soul's that now reside within the Infinity Circuit that have been added over the past 10,000 years. How are the two supposedly connected?
I'm gonna start a new thread on this topic. My current theory is that the Emperor is protecting Ynnead by request of Isha but that's for another thread. Changed it for clarity.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:I'd say C'Tan fall into the catagory of Gods in the same way the Chaos Gods are Gods of the Warp, C'Tan could've been seen of Gods of Materium, the laws of nature were theirs to control.
The only important C'Tan your missing is Llandu'gor, the Flayer. He was destroyed utterly by the Necrons and he was the one who inflicted the Flater curse upon the Necrons. I can understand not including him because he id dead, but his death did have concequences.
Your missing Quah, He who Lingers. He is the god of the Hrud, much like Khaine he is a splintered god, residing within his Umbra. However Quah unlike Khaine IS sentient, and is reforming.
other then that it seems about right. Perhaps include Valoscht the Maker, Patron of the Soul Forge. He isn't beholden to any Chaos God has about as much if not more power then Malal, so it's only right to include him.
Thanks, this was very helpfull. It makes sence for the Hrud to have their own deity seeing how widespread they are. I'm not including the flayer since I want to stick to "living" gods (With the exception of Ynnead). Added Valoscht.
Being massively powerful doesn't make you a god though
...why? You still owe us an actual, global definition of what makes a god...
I've already provided my criteria of what I'd consider a god.
Eternal, cannot die or be harmed in any way.
Created the universe, all the things in it and is responsible for everything that can happen, or does happen.
Omnipotent.
Omnipresent.
Controls or influences all of reality.
By this definition, you'd rule out all polytheistic religions there are.
Yeah that's right, just my opinion of it, the way I see it is this, can it be achieved through technology or evolution, it's not really a god, just a very advanced creature, you can disagree and that's fine
Actually I don't entirely disagree with this. Whilst, as others have already stated in this thread, it really comes down to polytheism or monotheism it does follows the Budhist and versions of Hindu religions of an omnipotent/omnipresent force. Christianities and Islams concept is slightly diffrent. Whilst the god is ommnipotent/omnipresent in both cases it's more of a entity with an agenda, opposition and hence limitations. The strange thing about this is that theese enteties acts with their own best intrest instead of their followers, with "thou shalt have no other god Before me" being chief amongst theese in christianity. The issue may not be clear at first glance but the way I see it anything omnipotent that acts in it's own intrests will inevitably be more akin to Tzeentch then anything else. Alas I fear I have kindled the religion debate.
This definition of god does of course not fit in with the 40k universe and if it did it would make this thread entirely pointless.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:The Star Child.
added for clariy.
Who/what is Necoho? I have never heard of it before. The theory is that the Emperor was creating a chaos god of unbelief through his starvatition of their Powers, is this the name for that entity?
Finally for the elephant in the room: The C'tan.
They stay.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/01/04 10:02:24
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
Necoho was the god of atheism or unbelief who took the form of some balding old geezer. GW lost the rights to him along with Malal and Zuvassin the Undoer.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
King Pariah wrote: Necoho was the god of atheism or unbelief who took the form of some balding old geezer. GW lost the rights to him along with Malal and Zuvassin the Undoer.
You mean Malice, should a being like that exist, which it doesn't?
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
Malice is the god of anarchy and terror much like his predecessor Malal. I've never seen anything to say Malice is a god of unbelief; nihilism perhaps, but not atheism.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
King Pariah wrote: Malice is the god of anarchy and terror much like his predecessor Malal. I've never seen anything to say Malice is a god of unbelief; nihilism perhaps, but not atheism.
He is the Anti-god of Chaos. He is the Chaos god of Chaos. If he were to actually exist, of course
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
I wrote a small essay about why the Emperor is actually a God of Chaos on B&C, I'll go dig that up.
Okay, I found it, and a handy little thread that pertains perfectly to the topic at hand (the nature of Gods in 40k). Before you read my reasoning, OP, I would like to point out that I use Wiki, Lexicanum, and 4Chan in conjunction because, while the former and latter may be unreliable, at times, they lend a small amount of additional credence when used in conjunction with other sources.
Explanation for how the Emperor is a God here:
First of all, let's establish how powerful the Emperor was before he became a God. Here are a few quotes:
Spoiler:
From the wiki:
The Emperor is the collective reincarnation of all the shamans of Neolithic humanity's various peoples, the first human psykers. The foul Warp entities that would become the four Great Powers of Chaos had not yet fully formed when the Emperor was born on Earth during prehistoric times, somewhere in ancient central Anatolia (modern Turkey) in the 8th Millennium B.C. But even before the birth of the Emperor, as humanity grew and progressed, the Warp began to become increasingly disturbed by the dark undercurrents of humanity's collective psyche, and the shamans began to lose their former ability to reincarnate into new bodies. Instead, upon dying, their souls were being consumed by the entities and daemons of the Warp. Eventually the shamans of humanity, unable to reincarnate, would become extinct, and without the shamans and their psychic abilities to guide the race, humanity would inevitably fall prey to the corruptions of Chaos, just as eventually happened to the Eldar. In these ancient days, all the shamans of Earth gathered in a grand conclave to decide what must be done to stave off the day when they had all been consumed by the Warp.
From Lexicanum:
The oldest information given on the Emperor's origin relates that he was born to mortal parents in the 8th Millennium BC[3a] manifesting his powers as a youth. One account of the Emperor's origin goes so far as to say that he had mortal brothers and sisters and details the time and location of his birthplace - eight thousand years before the first millennium, in the region of Terra then known as Central Anatolia. This account also claims that the Emperor's birth, while a natural process, was actually the result of a scheme created by the wisest and most powerful of living humans at that time; the conclave of Shamans. These men, termed 'shamans' by their society, were powerful psykers with great experience of the Warp. Finding their souls - and those of humanity - endangered by the growing perils of the Warp-gods, these psykers decided to pool their power into one human, a being they called 'the New Man'. Already having gained the power to reincarnate themselves (upon death, the shamans' souls would transfer to the Warp, accumulating power enough to reincarnate as human) the shamans entered a suicide-pact. Thousands of them poisoned themselves and sped their souls to the warp at the same time. Presumably pooling their soul-energy and using their reincarnation ability, they brought about the birth of their New Man - the Emperor - one year later. This New Man, once he had learned of his special nature, proceeded to haunt the history of humanity as a ghost; watching, waiting and occasionally influencing.[3x]
Next up, from Mechanicum regarding the power of the C'tan shard known as the Void Dragon followed by how the Emperor roflstomped it:
The angles were impossible, the geometry insane. Distance was irrelevant and perspective a lie. Every rule of normality was turned upside down in an instant and the natural order of the universe was overthrown in this new, terrifying vision of distorted reality. The cavern seemed to pulse in every direction at once, compressing and contracting in unfeasible ways, moving as rock was never meant to move.This was no cavern. Was this entire space, the walls and floor, the air and every molecule within it, part of some vast intelligence, a being or construct of ancient malice and phenomenal, primeval power? Such a thing had no name; for what use would a being that had brought entire civilisations into existence and then snuffed them out on a whim have of a name? It had been abroad in the galaxy for millions of years before humanity had been a breath in the creator’s mouth, had drunk the hearts of stars and being worshipped as a god in a thousand galaxies.It was everywhere and nowhere at once. All powerful and trapped at the same time.The monstrous horror of its very existence threatened to shatter the walls of her mind, and in desperation, Dalia looked down at her feet in an attempt to convince herself that the laws of perspective still held true in relation to her own body. Her existence in the face of this infinite impossibility was meaningless, but she recognised that only by small victories might she hold onto her fracturing reason.
The creature gave out a deafening roar that shook stones from the city walls and the burning radiance in its breast was extinguished. Its grasp upon the knight loosened and the lightning faded from its eyes as the great beast fell to the ground.Perceiving that the Dragon was helpless, though not dead, the knight untied the long white banner from his shattered lance and bound it around the neck of the monster.
Dalia looked towards the horizon over which the knight had vanished. ‘Then that was?’
'The Emperor? Yes,’ said Semyon, turning and walking away as the reality of the desert landscape began to unweave. ‘He brought the defeated Dragon to Mars and bound it beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus.’
Now, on the creation of a God of Chaos.
To prevent confusion on the references to souls, or shadow-selves, i'll explain that souls, in the context of 40k, are reflections of ourselves in the Warp that radiate energy and emotion.
Spoiler:
From Realms of Chaos: the Lost and the Damned
severed from its psychic link to the material body, the shadow-self [soul] drifts in the Realm of Chaos. As it does so, some of its energies are dispersed into the general flow, but the strongest and most distinctive mental traits remain. The countless shadow-selves of the dead flow together because they are mutually attracted by their common traits. Thus the [souls] of deceased warriors retain their most warlike traits, and flow together into a huge co-joined entity.
the total energy of a Chaos Power [God] is reflected by the number of shadow-selves which make up its presence in the Realm of Chaos. Thus, the greater number of his mortal followers and worshipers the more powerful he is.
This is how every Chaos God was created - from the "slumbering Gods", like what Slaanesh was before her birth, to the alive and active ones, like Khorne.
In addition to these energies, we get the ones that bleed off of our souls while we are still alive. In places like the Eye of Terror, they can form spirits right off the bat, but, in most places, they just funnel straight into the Gods (as evidenced by Talon of Horus's descriptions).
In addition, the Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness tell us that, by worshiping a God, you promise your soul to that God. So, when you die, your soul contributes to that God's own energies.
Next up, from the wiki, on how the Golden Throne makes the Emperor capable of using his psychic powers virtually anywhere in the galaxy - I do believe that the Ecclesiarchy calls such events "miracles"
the Golden Throne also now functions as a complex life support device and psychic amplifier, projecting the Emperor's mind into the Warp and across the galaxy.
- NOTE: The wiki's words are also backed up by the fact that the Emperor used the Golden Throne as his means of creating, controlling, and sealing off the Imperial Webway Project
If we are to accept The Lost and the Damned as canon, every human who dies worshiping the Emperor has his energies added to a gestalt Emperor. Going by the previous quote regarding the Golden Throne, the Emperor would have the power to either a.) accept these souls into to him to turn himself into a God, or b.) let them pass him by and create a completely different God-Emperor that he has virtually no control over. Considering the fact that he had done virtually nothing to suppress his worship when he was still alive, I'm inclined to believe the former. If he has, indeed, been accepting the energies into himself, then he would be having his power increase exponentially as the years go on. If the latter, then we may or may not see a Fall of the Eldar-eque situation, where rampant Warp Storms begin tearing across the galaxy (though the God-Emperor will likely not be just sitting back and accepting the energies of Humanity, as Slaanesh did to the Eldar, so this might not be the case. We know that it wasn't with Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch.
Since there are at least 6 Quintillion human beings alive at any given moment (approx. 6 bil per planet, and 1 mil. planet per Imperium of Man) that worship the Emperor, and there has been 10k years pass (let's assume the average lifespan of a human is 50 years), that means that at least 1.2 e 21 human souls have contributed to this God-Emperor. Considering the fact that, during the Great Crusade, the Legions exterminated every Chaos Worshiper not dwelling on the fringes of the galaxy, virtually all of the Gods' power base (Cults and worshipers, though the Gods would still receive power from generic emotions) was destroyed during the Crusade. Now, the Chaos Gods have sparked up many new cults - however, not nearly as many as they had Pre-Crusade, so the Emperor has been receiving far more power than they have (Imperial Cult currently reigns supreme and destroys any chaos Cults they discover). This means that the Emperor should have at least as much power as what the Chaos Gods have, if not more.
As far as definitions of Gods go, a God is an entity who has reached reality-warping levels of power, and is able to be fractured without becoming an insignificant being. Some examples of this would be the Chaos Gods, who fracture themselves into Daemons, and remain immensely powerful, the C'tan (Star Gods), who have been shattered into millions of itty bitty pieces and retain the power to shatter entire battlefleets, and the Emperor, who, in Talon of Horus , is said to have created Legions of Angels of Fire, who have laid siege to the Eye of Terror and lain waste to hundreds of worlds within it. This region is called The Radiant Worlds, and is the primary reason that Chaos Fleets are unable to stay unified when leaving the Eye from anywhere but the Cadian Gate (which makes it difficult for them to attack in force).
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
Do remember that the Void Dragon was terribly weakened at the time the Emperor defeated it. During the cannon at the time of writing the Void Dragon had recently escaped destruction at the hands of the Talismens of Vaul (Blackstone fortresses) when the Emperor caught it. Not putting the Emperor down by any means, as the Void Dragon was stated to be the most powerful C'Tan and even defeating the weakened Void Dragon is a feat. But it's important to mention not only was the Void Dragon weakened critically during the fight but also that the Emperor is probably the most potent psyker in the universe, effectively giving the Emperor a 'type advantage' vs C'tan.
I'm not inclined to believe that The Emperor is gaining the spirits of is followers, that would be a reprieve totally at odds with the grim-dark nature of the universe . But on the other hand, I do believe the Star Child theory that once the Emperor 'dies' well and truly, he will become a Chaos God and Terra will become a new tear in reality. The Terran Hells.
bag!"
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
