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Inspired by GentGiant's thread about top shooty units , l would like to get the discussion about best in (most updated) GW codexes Assault units. Welcome any and all dakka guys to share views.

A side note, unique character count as well, but may list them separately.

Lets start rolling
Best 10 normal assault unit
1. Thurnder Wolf Cavalry
2. Wraith Knight
4. Bloodthirster of Insansate Rage
5. Imperial Knight
6. Space Marine Chapter Master
7. Howling Banshees
8. Genestealers
9. Assualt Terminators
10. Incubi

10 most choppy Unique Characters
1. Skarbrand
2. Swarmlord
3. Jain Zar
4. Draigo Kaldor
5. Abbadon the Despoiler
6. Menphiston
7. Marnues Calgar
8. Fuegan
9. Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka
10. Karandras

Howling Banshees? Genestealers? Really?

Death Company need to be on that list somewhere.

Also Dante over Mephiston.

harlequin troops should be somewhere on the list
might the solitaire make it for the unique characters list?

I find the lack of Meganobz on this list to be disturbing. Few units can really compare to the number of 2+ armor wounds and have as many Str 8/9 AP2 attacks as meganobz for their relatively cheap cost of 40 points and have access to a fast, cheap, open topped vehicle. Sure they die to anything that pieces 2+ armor but their value is in the damage output and trading decently well with other unwieldy AP2 users.

Also how did genestealers make it onto this list but a Dreadknight didn't? Heck if your including genestealers then include Murderfang as he is also insanely deadly while also dying the turn he arrives on the board

Speaking of Orks, Zhadsnark over thraka. Tankshock so no overwatch when charging on occasion and i4 s10 ap2 is vicious.

Oh how the mighty have fallen..

I'd take Necron Wraiths over most assault units. Just overall mobility/survivability/dmg output makes them top tier.

Hi guys, thanks for posting and joined the view point sharing . And happy new year

I admit that my list is definitely not perfect and there are some missing good units as you guys have pointed out. Comments are welcomed.

Basically yes I generally follow mobility, choppy ability (consider S, I, AP, etc), and the capability to tank the return blow. So the reason I consider Banshee is that they are able to charge far than most other units, while the charge target cannot do overwatch, and these girls strike at I5 AP3. For the Genestealers, they can infiltrate, have fleet, strike at I6, WS6, 4 RENDING attacks on the charge. Downside is they lost initiative when charge into terrain. Well, I might replace them with Daemonette, at least they are a little more survivable to flamers.

So a revised list as follow

1. Thurnder Wolf Cavalry
2. Wraith Knight
3. Bloodthirster of Insansate Rage
4. Imperial Knight
5. Canoptek Wraiths
6. Space Marine Chapter Master
Tied 6. Blood Angel Death Company
7. Howling Banshees
8. Daemonette
9. Assualt Terminators
10. Ork Nobz (Maga Armor or biker)

There may still be some missing good units due to my lack of knowledge for some not so popular codexes like Harlequin. So welcome further discussions. It is also great if anyone could also offer the Top10 candidates in you view

I don't think Chapter Masters really belong there. Sure, they're hard as nails, but have very low damage output per point at the end of the day.

One unit I think is overlooked is Vanguard Veterans. Good mobility, solid punch, somewhat resilient when stormshields are thrown in, and can reliably get in assaults thanks to Heroic Intervention. It can also be made into a multipurpose unit by throwing in some meltabombs.

I'd have Khorne Beserkers in my top 10, but that is 100% wishful thinking.

You'll have a number of people saying "oh unit X should totally be on your list for this reason!" But I echo what Remtek said. Give me a unit that can GET to assault, and that's more valuable than any assault unit that doesn't get there in one piece *coughdaemonettescough* to be fair to Daemons, though, you can just summon more.

And I'm with you on the stealers. If they can get there, it's great. Especially for an obsec unit. It's getting there that's the problem. Overall, pretty good list. I might do screamers or plague drones, as they are more inherently survivable than daemonettes, even without psychic buffing, and though they are a little more specialized in what they want to kill, they do kill a lot

You're still listing Howling Banshees.

Necron Wraiths don't actually have the best damage output. Average hitting, no AP aside from Rends, and even though 3 attacks per model is nice, the squad sizes are relatively small and the number of attacks goes down drastically as they die.

Wraiths are really good at being fast and tying up shooty/important units. Not necessarily killing them at any reasonable speed.

The chapter master is a little confusing. If you just put plain chapter master that can be confusing. The CM has a lot of builds. So are you talking about SmashFether? because if so I think we should make that known and separate it from the Chapter master on foot with only basic upgrades.

Also, I would argue that bikernobs are a better standalone unit than assault terminators. You said getting in to combat is important, well assault terminators aren't going to get in to combat without a transport. And the most common transport for the assault terminators is a landraider, which is a completely separate unit and super expensive. A nob biker unit with powerklaws has more attacks is t5 so will not be instadeathed by the assault termies, and can move 24" to get a 3+ cover save to avoid the shooting in the first turn.

Requizen wrote:
Necron Wraiths don't actually have the best damage output. Average hitting, no AP aside from Rends, and even though 3 attacks per model is nice, the squad sizes are relatively small and the number of attacks goes down drastically as they die.

Wraiths are really good at being fast and tying up shooty/important units. Not necessarily killing them at any reasonable speed.

They hit at S6 with Rending, can strike at I5 (or shoot with a S4 AP2 weapon to soften supposed hard targets up) and the squad size is NOT that bad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Necron Wraiths don't actually have the best damage output. Average hitting, no AP aside from Rends, and even though 3 attacks per model is nice, the squad sizes are relatively small and the number of attacks goes down drastically as they die.

Wraiths are really good at being fast and tying up shooty/important units. Not necessarily killing them at any reasonable speed.

They hit at S6 with Rending, can strike at I5 (or shoot with a S4 AP2 weapon to soften supposed hard targets up) and the squad size is NOT that bad.

Their damage output isn't bad, but if the list is about which units are best at killing with choppy, I would put Nobz, Daemonettes, and a Chapter Master above them. They're good in that they have more staying power, not in that they kill things harder.

The list is about the best assault units. It's not solely about the killiest units.

and sometimes an ultimate tarpit is a great assault unit.

But really we have to look at what makes a good assault unit? Survivability or destructiveness? Or a good balance of both. I tend to think that the balance of both is the most important thing. The units that can dish out the most, and surivve the longest.

So if we were to make a scoring system. the wraiths would get a 5 star for mobility, a 5 star for durability, but only a 2 or 3 star (2.5) for this sake for killiness. overall rating of 4.1 out of 5 stars.

True, just when I read "choppy" I thought "killy".

I'm curious at why you ranked Jain Zar and Fuegan above Karandras in terms of CC capability, of the three Phoenix Lords you listed.

Of those three, he's got best chance of going toe to toe with another nasty CC character, IMO. His ability to kill mass MEQ's, GEQ's, even quickly deal with MC's in cc can't be understated as well.

Why is Failbaddon the crusade-spoiler above Papa smurf? I forgot which one has AP2 bolt guns and attacks with S8 AP2 at initiative 5... I wonder...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Why is Failbaddon the crusade-spoiler above Papa smurf? I forgot which one has AP2 bolt guns and attacks with S8 AP2 at initiative 5... I wonder...

Plus Calgar will get some sorta Doctrine off twice, and will have FNP since he can choose his Warlord Trait,

In a world where grav exists, meganobz dont even belong in the top 15.

 Orock wrote:
In a world where grav exists, meganobz dont even belong in the top 15.

Most of these choices don't belong in that case then. When factoring Grav in, a unit of Ork Boyz is likely the most choppy unit there is.

 Orock wrote:
In a world where grav exists, meganobz dont even belong in the top 15.

Grav shouldn't exist the way it does. Much prefer 30k's version of it.

Kinda surprised no one mentioned Deathwing Knights. They're kinda like Assault Terminators +1 because they strike at initiative, plus they have that Fortress of Shields rule that makes them tougher (until some of them die). Also, point for point Ork Boyz aren't too bad, as they get a lot of attacks on the charge, and Furious Charge. Boyz are probably the best basic troops for assaults.

Actually, a squad of 20 boyz with a nob and PK and boss pole will more than likely win an assault with a 5-man squad of assault terminators.

But here's the difference, a unit of assault terminators can bring down lords of war and superheavies, whereas a single unit of ork boyz with that nob would have no chance.

For the people discussing Marneus Calgar VS Abaddon, it's pretty simple to resolve; as long as Abaddon doesn't roll badly for Drach'nyen, he should theoretically win due to striking first even if Marneus is using the Assault Doctrine twice and the Feel No Pain Warlord Trait. Abaddon gets tonnes of re-rolls as well (Hatred from VOTLW and Preferred Enemy from Black Crusader) and has S5 AP2 with a potential 11 attacks in one round, not counting any potential charge bonuses for the two. It's a very even match-up though which I think is really cool as it will come down to luck on the part of Abaddon's side; if he gets about 8 attacks total over two rounds from Drach'nyen, he wins. If not, Marneus wins. All assuming average rolls of course with the random nature of Drach'nyen being the deciding factor.

As for Karandras VS Jain Zar overall, it's a bit more complex. Jain Zar absolutely crushes any character that doesn't have the Smash rule innately (meaning monstrous creatures usually) or multiple AP2 melee weapons, whereas Karandras can tear apart most monstrous creatures in a single round. Karandras is the more powerful overall combatant in terms of damage output, but Jain Zar is far and away the better challenger. Jain Zar can beat Draigo, Abaddon, Logan Grimnar, Dante and almost any other non-monstrous character you can think of, barring Marneus Calgar who has two super power fists. Karandras on the other hand struggles because he doesn't have an innate defence outside of killing things before they strike which doesn't work against Eternal Warriors with good invulnerable saves.

As for an actual best close combat units list that doesn't include characters or Lords of War of any kind, I'm kinda stumped. If we are talking overall resilience/damage output/speed/points cost then Genestealers and Howling Banshees certainly don't belong in the list. Heck, there are better options in their own codices; I would put Gargoyles over Genestealers for their speed/price/ability to mass Blind powerful enemies, while Striking Scorpions outshine Howling Banshees in every category (they don't need a transport!) imaginable. Seriously though, Genestealers are utter garbage in 7th Edition because of how fragile and expensive they are plus their high Initiative being rendered useless by lacking assault grenades so how they could make a top list of anything is beyond me. I can't think of any codex in the game that is legitimately afraid of them and can't just destroy them with a glance.

Canoptek Wraiths, Chaos Spawn and Thunderwolf Cavalry are my only locks because they have everything required to be a functional good/great assault unit in 7th Edition, otherwise there are just too many that could be there for differing reasons. Take Meganobz for example; three of them in a Trukk is utterly brutal for the points and cheap as hell. Daemonettes are theoretically the best damage dealers per point in the game due to massed Rending and good offensive stats. Assault Terminators are kind of a staple and I'm definitely a big fan of the good old Priest-led Guard blob squads.

Flayed Ones!

They're quite durable and a full squad gets a ridonculous amount of attacks on the charge.

What about nemesis dreadknight?

'bout this?

1. Thurnder Wolf Cavalry
2. Canoptek Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
3. Wraith Knight
4. Imperial Knight Gallant
5. Nurgle Chaos Spawn
6. Nemesis Dreadknight
7. Jump Pack Death Company
8. Khorne dogs
9. Vanguard Veterans
10. Assault Termies