Domestic Terrorists Take Over Federal Building in Oregon

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**BaronIveagh**

You know, sitting here, we mock these losers, but, it does raise the question, how long until someone charismatic enough comes along and unites all these misc morons?

**Breotan**

BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, sitting here, we mock these losers, but, it does raise the question, how long until someone charismatic enough comes along and unites all these misc morons?

I'd say never. We can't even get Libertarians to unite behind a cause so how do you expect to unite paranoid, anti-government wackos?

**AlmightyWalrus**

The thing with anti-authoritarian crazies is that they're anti-authoritarian. They'll tear themselves apart eventually.

**reds8n**

BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, sitting here, we mock these losers, but, it does raise the question, how long until someone charismatic enough comes along and unites all these misc morons?

..well....

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/

Hope the local residents are at least doing well financially from all the media and so on.

Probably scant consolation but silver linings and all that.

**Ouze**

Local law enforcement has no more meetings planned for the Oregon standoff.

Armed group refusing to leave Oregon wildlife refuge: sheriff
01/09/16 11:19 AM—UPDATED 01/09/16 11:20 AM
By Phil Helsel

An armed group that has occupied a wildlife refuge center in Oregon over grievances with the federal government has refused a sheriff’s request to leave and no more meetings are planned, the Harney County Sheriff’s Office said Friday.

The group, led by Ammon Bundy, declined Sheriff David Ward’s request during a meeting Thursday, but the sheriff planned to talk with the group again Friday.

“The people on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge made it clear that they have no intention of honoring the sheriff’s request to leave. Because of that, there are no planned meetings or calls at this time,” the Harney County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement Friday afternoon.

The sheriff’s announcement came after Bundy told reporters Friday, “we’re not the least bit ashamed of our actions,” according to NBC affiliate KTVZ.

Ward “is keeping all options open” the statement said. The FBI is also involved, and has said it is working toward a peaceful resolution. There have been no arrests.

The group took over the headquarters at the wildlife refuge on Saturday following a protest over jail sentences imposed on two ranchers convicted of setting fires on government owned land.

Bundy has also said the group wants federally owned land turned over to local control. At a face-to-face meeting with Ward Thursday, Bundy said he and his compatriots were “being ignored again.”

Bundy is the son of Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who faced off with the federal government in 2014 after agents tried to seize his cattle over more than $1 million in unpaid grazing fees. In the face of an armed demonstration and standoff, the agents stood down.

On Wednesday Ward said at a community meeting that the armed group should go home, and took exception to the fact that the occupiers are from outside of the area. He said they “hijacked” the protest over the ranchers.

“You don’t to come here from elsewhere and tell us how we’re going to live our lives,” Ward said.

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown on Thursday said the armed protesters “need to decamp immediately and face the consequences.”

The sad thing about these thugs is that they never really had a chance. They were probably on welfare as children - 40% of all food stamp beneficiaries are white, a huge majority. 25 percent of them are from single-parent families, so they probably didn't have strong father figures, and they are steeped in white culture which glorifies violence - from gangster music that glamorizes lawlessness like John Lennon and Bon Jovi to their movies which teach robbery is acceptable, such as with Ben Affleck and George Clooney.

Where are the moderate white people speaking out against them? Where are the prominent white figures, like Guy Fieri and Adam Sandler, decrying these thugs? It really makes them all look bad, if you ask me. It's no real surprise that whites make up 93% of the prison population.

**LordofHats**

Exalted

**SagesStone**

I'm just disappointed his name isn't Al Bundy.

**Jihadin**

Someone weapon going to have a Negligent Discharge. Shoot out in the cabin, on cabin grounds, through the roof, and the watch tower to include their roving patrols. Problem solved, Cause dies (damn), mass casualties, and media goes nuts fitting it into their agenda. Then the thread turns into mass shooting, 2nd Amendment, and gun control.

**Ouze**

It's almost like a bunch of heavily armed idiots seizing a government site and "patrolling" it while threatening violence and requesting recruits to join them in their jihad against the US have created a dangerous situation.

**d-usa**

I'm surprised that the Patriotic State of Oregon and Cascadia is having such difficulty with their cause.

**Kilkrazy**

d-usa wrote:
I'm surprised that the Patriotic State of Oregon and Cascadia is having such difficulty with their cause.

They are probably still asleep. Or maybe celebrating the Nike sponsorship in Eugene getting the World Athletics Championshop.

**Frazzled**

BaronIveagh wrote:
You know, sitting here, we mock these losers, but, it does raise the question, how long until someone charismatic enough comes along and unites all these misc morons?

Never. These guys One True Scotsman each other so bad, they all have to wear kilts. This crew probably thinks Cruz is a commie.

**von Hohenstein**

If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

**Frazzled**

n0t_u wrote:
I'm just disappointed his name isn't Al Bundy.

You know Al scored FOUR touchdowns in one game!

**Ouze**

von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

While I generally agree with that assessment, it shouldn't be a race to the bottom; we shouldn't demand a bloodbath to be fair. We're not aiming to equalize around "awful".

These guys have no hostages and post no real imminent danger to anyone and they'e in a fairly remote location. SImply waiting is the easist and best way to handle it. They have no power, dwindling food, and pretty poor morale. Better to just cut them off, cut their power, water, etc, set up a cellular blocker, and simply wait until they surrender and then charge them.

Perhaps they can be lured out soon enough with promises of coffee creamer.

**Frazzled**

von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

Why would we care how it looks on the other side of the ocean?

**MeanGreenStompa**

Frazzled wrote:
von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

Why would we care how it looks on the other side of the ocean?

It looks precisely the same this side of the ocean as well...

**CptJake**

von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

Can you show any examples in the US where the groups you mention took over a building in the woods and were then killed by cops/military? Hell, can you find any examples of Muslims in the US being killed by the military as you claim would be the case? Even the gak bag Nidal Hassan was killed by civilian DoD cops.

On the other hand, I can show examples where whites were killed by cops (the Davidian compound in Waco and Ruby Ridge) even though thy were really of no threat to others at that point. You may be able to make the case the Davidians were a threat to some of their own followers, but in the end the FBI actions resulted in the death of a lot of kids.

So, give us something to justify your bull gak comments, because it seems you are talking out of your ass.

**motyak**

Frazzled wrote:
von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

Why would we care how it looks on the other side of the ocean?

Because this board has users from many countries, and they are all allowed to participate in discussion without their viewpoint being derided like that

**CptJake**

motyak wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
von Hohenstein wrote:
If these guys were black, they would have been shoot by the police days ago.
If these quys were muslims, they would have been shot by the military days ago.

But they are white, so they are allowed to do their thing.
At least this is how it looks like from the other side of the ocean. Why are these guys still not arrested?

Why would we care how it looks on the other side of the ocean?

Because this board has users from many countries, and they are all allowed to participate in discussion without their viewpoint being derided like that

A viewpoint based on no fact/evidence probably is worth derision. And his viewpoint is based on nothing but emotion.

**Ouze**

CptJake wrote:
On the other hand, I can show examples where whites were killed by cops (the Davidian compound in Waco and Ruby Ridge) even though thy were really of no threat to others at that point. Y.

In the example of Waco, arguing that a guy who was marrying and molesting 10 year old girls wasn't really a threat to others is a hard sell.

edit: you've since updated your post to address this.

CptJake wrote:
A viewpoint based on no fact/evidence probably is worth derision. And his viewpoint is based on nothing but emotion.

Then maybe that's the point he should have made, instead of simply dismissing anything he said because of his location.

**d-usa**

We do have that time where police bombed a house to clear it out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

**CptJake**

d-usa wrote:
We do have that time where police bombed a house to clear it out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

Which had nothing really to do with the race of the folks, and instead was a VERY poor tactical choice made by city cops who were in an actual fire fight with a group known for shooting at and killing cops. And the city gov't lost a civil suit over it, though unfortunately the mayor and police commissioner never facd criminal charges.

One of the reasons the bombing was so disastrous was because unlike what Bundy and his fellow crazies are doing in the woods of Oregon, MOVE was in the middle of Philli.

**kveldulf**

The militia is an essential part of asserting your citizenship. State/Fed authority can become corrupt (which especially most of the administrative branches of fed govt are). Its about time people give the feds the bird. If I didn't have young children, I'd be tempted to go up there too.

For all of you socialist/strong central govt lackeys/advocates - good proper govt isn't a majority rules matter. Matters of powerful legislation should be kept closer to the people, and when that form fails, hopefully you still have something like the second amendment, and you 'qualify' with the govt.... oh wait...

**A Town Called Malus**

kveldulf wrote:
The militia is an essential part of asserting your citizenship. State/Fed authority can become corrupt (which especially most of the administrative branches of fed govt are). Its about time people give the feds the bird. If I didn't have young children, I'd be tempted to go up there too.

Wait, if you didn't have children you'd go sit in a hut as an act of solidarity for some child abusers who committed arson?

**Relapse**

Ouze wrote:
CptJake wrote:
On the other hand, I can show examples where whites were killed by cops (the Davidian compound in Waco and Ruby Ridge) even though thy were really of no threat to others at that point. Y.

In the example of Waco, arguing that a guy who was marrying and molesting 10 year old girls wasn't really a threat to others is a hard sell.

As bad as that was, initiating tactics that caused those same children to die in a fire isn't really something to give out medals for. I like to think that the Feds have learned from the debacles of Move, Waco, and Ruby Ridge.

**sirlynchmob**

CptJake wrote:
d-usa wrote:
We do have that time where police bombed a house to clear it out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

Which had nothing really to do with the race of the folks, and instead was a VERY poor tactical choice made by city cops who were in an actual fire fight with a group known for shooting at and killing cops. And the city gov't lost a civil suit over it, though unfortunately the mayor and police commissioner never facd criminal charges.

One of the reasons the bombing was so disastrous was because unlike what Bundy and his fellow crazies are doing in the woods of Oregon, MOVE was in the middle of Philli.

[MOD EDIT - LET'S NOT MAKE ALLEGATIONS LIKE THAT, OK? - ALPHARIUS] they weren't known for killing cops, a single cop died in 1978, 1 not plural. the one that died was shot in the back, probably by his fellow officers, and of course they blame the black guys.

the cops showed up to "evict" the group from living in their home. they brought bombs as a "entry device" and a helicopter with 1lb bombs, then the cops shot anyone leaving the building. so their choice was to burn or get shot. the cops shot first, the people inside were exercising their second amendment rights to own guns and used them to defend themselves. and during all that chaos, not a single officer was wounded. it wasn't a shoot out, it was the cops murdering, Eleven people (John Africa, five other adults and five children aged 7 to 13) died in the resulting fire and more than 250 people were left homeless.

It's like a trend, when the cops murder people of a certain race, they never face criminal charges.

and why didn't the cops like this group, oh ya, they were protesting against racism and police brutality.

**Relapse**

sirlynchmob wrote:
CptJake wrote:
d-usa wrote:
We do have that time where police bombed a house to clear it out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

Which had nothing really to do with the race of the folks, and instead was a VERY poor tactical choice made by city cops who were in an actual fire fight with a group known for shooting at and killing cops. And the city gov't lost a civil suit over it, though unfortunately the mayor and police commissioner never facd criminal charges.

One of the reasons the bombing was so disastrous was because unlike what Bundy and his fellow crazies are doing in the woods of Oregon, MOVE was in the middle of Philli.

wow those are some racist lenses your looking through. they weren't known for killing cops, a single cop died in 1978, 1 not plural. the one that died was shot in the back, probably by his fellow officers, and of course they blame the black guys.

the cops showed up to "evict" the group from living in their home. they brought bombs as a "entry device" and a helicopter with 1lb bombs, then the cops shot anyone leaving the building. so their choice was to burn or get shot. the cops shot first, the people inside were exercising their second amendment rights to own guns and used them to defend themselves. and during all that chaos, not a single officer was wounded. it wasn't a shoot out, it was the cops murdering, Eleven people (John Africa, five other adults and five children aged 7 to 13) died in the resulting fire and more than 250 people were left homeless.

It's like a trend, when the cops murder people of a certain race, they never face criminal charges.

and why didn't the cops like this group, oh ya, they were protesting against racism and police brutality.

Several other police and firefighters were also injured during the incident the cop was killed in, however.
Even though MOVE wasn't in any way a group of harmless innocents, most people I know that live in PA were outraged over the tactics the police used and were scandalized that those who planned and approved it got away with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

**Ouze**

Relapse wrote:
I like to think that the Feds have learned from the debacles of Move, Waco, and Ruby Ridge.

One would hope.

**streamdragon**

kveldulf wrote:
Matters of powerful legislation should be kept closer to the people

Closer to the people, like a Direct Democracy? But I thought:

kveldulf wrote:
good proper govt isn't a majority rules matter.