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Compared to the other notable characters in the 40k universe where would you place Ghazghkull? ( The biggest and the meanest of all the Orks)

I was reading the WAAAGGHHH Ghazghkull supplement and it got me wondering just how powerful he is because we don't really see him ever clash in single combat with other notable characters.

I personally think he is top tier SM chapter master level. I could see him going toe to toe with guys like Dante, Lysander, Calgar and Logan with pretty even odds for both sides. I don't see him beating Abbadon, but then again I don't see anyone beating Abbadon.

He got the drop on one of the chapter masters sometime inbetween the two Armageddon invasions. He also got swallowed by some big tyranid and tore his way out killing the monster in the process but otherwise there isn't much about him taking part in fights other then to subdue other warbosses to add to his Waaaaaaagh! The fluff repeated several times that aside from keeping his own Orks inline he generally stays back and commands troops like a conventional army leader. The fluff also repeats that he's a master tactician that has confounded the Imperium's top minds and that he's considered a genius by human standards. He's an Ork with a vision and a master plan, add to this the fact that Gork and Mork really do favour him and will teleport him away from danger deus ex machina style whenever he's seriously threatened does makes him an incredibly dangerous character. Yarrick seems to be the only human in the setting who recognizes this, however.

He really isn't as strong as people make him out to be. A lot of what he does is really just his gods paving his way for him. Without them he's just an ork in steel plating - deadly to the common man, but one melta shot away from death in ignominy. His reputation makes more orks flock to him and win his campaigns which increases his reputation...

He is not even close to the most impressive Ork we've seen so far - the one Horus and the Emperor met during the Great Crusade, for example, makes Ghaz look like a complete pushover.

He does have some seriously impressive plot armor though, so I doubt we'll see him die any time soon.

One melta shot away from being gibbed is wayyyy off base.... not even a basic ork warlord will be one shotted by a melta gun so that's flat out wrong in both fluff and crunch.

not sure why its so shameful either when that encompasses 99% of space marines.

Ghazzy unfortunately falls prey to the writers view that orks should only be seen as a threat but never actually be one. IE they are always the antagonist and the same plot armour that keeps him alive keeps the orks from ever winning any game changing fights.

 easysauce wrote:
One melta shot away from being gibbed is wayyyy off base.... not even a basic ork warlord will be one shotted by a melta gun so that's flat out wrong in both fluff and crunch.

Gamewise? Certainly. Gamewise, a Guardsman also can take three times as many shots as his men can simply by reaching Major rank.

Lorewise, a melta shot center mass will leave Ghaz's steaming legs and arms behind but little else.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
One melta shot away from being gibbed is wayyyy off base.... not even a basic ork warlord will be one shotted by a melta gun so that's flat out wrong in both fluff and crunch.

Gamewise? Certainly. Gamewise, a Guardsman also can take three times as many shots as his men can simply by reaching Major rank.

Lorewise, a melta shot center mass will leave Ghaz's steaming legs and arms behind but little else.

Gamewise all the shots a company commander will ever recieve are s6. So, crunch balances itself out

As for Ghaz, i imagine, he's the toughest ork there is judjing by his size. I'm actually happy he's not depicted as a frontline battering ram cause as soon as an 'important' character is depicted this way, the authors inevitebly Draigofy him.

Ghaz would be able to go toe to toe with any character you'll find in the regular fluff. By virtue of his Waaaagh he would be absolutely massive. THere have been bosses in the past who were also epic in size, but Ghaz has the added benefit of being a boss post Awakening and being the chosen one of Gork and Mork.

That he is also a comparatively brilliant tactician makes him more lethal and does not take away from his unbelievable combat prowess.

Still tough, large ork warbosses are hard to put down.

A ork can take serious damage before dying, they as a race are durable and built for warfare and operating in hard conditions.

A warboss will not be invincible but not be a easy kill for a even a veteran space marine.

Ghazzy is a Lord of War if you want a power scale reference from the tabletop. He's an Eternal Warrior, which means a direct hit from a Demolisher Cannon will only wound him. For that matter a S8 meltagun, or even a S9 Lascannon, will never do more than wound a T5 bog-standard Warboss wearing naught but his skivvies. Ghazzy's only 'gift' from Gork/Mork (unless you count his damaged brain-pan and a conviction that he's da Profit uv da Waaagh) is an improved Waaaagh - which is really just a manifestation of his Orky mystique as da Biggest, Baddest Warboss uv dem All.

Ghazkull's real power isn't represented on the tabletop. For an Ork he's a thinker. Not only is he a tactician, he's a strategist. In the run-up to 3rd Armageddon he kept Imperial command and intelligence in the dark about his intentions until he struck - against the obvious target. That took some real skill. (And don't give von Strab any credit, he was an incompetent buffoon when he was Governor of Armageddon during round 2.)

Anyone who thinks Gork and Mork are paving the way 'for' Ghazkull doesn't know spit about Orks or their gods. Gork and Mork never coddle their favorites and do not reinforce failure. For that matter they never really 'reward' their followers with anything more than more Orkyness... which their followers arguably earn all on their own.

Unlike the Chaos Gods or the Emperor you do not see sacrifice being rewarded, gifts being given or miracles being performed in the name of Gork/Mork. They're exemplars of Ork-kind, to be emulated rather than petitioned for wish fulfillment.

You'll note that Orks have no priests. Most likely asking gods for help would get you killed because you weren't tough, resilient and self-reliant enough. Or wary enough to see the backstab coming. Or you'd get a good stompin' from a bigger, tougher Ork fer bein' weak an' weedy like 'Umies.

I'm mildly irritated by people who pronounce about Orks who haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about.

My two cents.

Actually, orks used to have priests. They were called Yellerboyz.


However Ghazzy is quite tough, possibly the hardest boy around. Even after losing the second war for Armageddon And going into hiding for fifty years, he kept his waaagh together.

Gorkamorka had many things that have since been ignored or retconned. Yellerboyz were better known for their voices (as the name implies) than prayer, sacrifice, divine gifts or miracles. Add to that Gorkamorka was an isolated world reverting to barbarism (by Ork standards) and you have very dodgy source material.

However, you're right. The Orks on that planet in that game had something vaguely approximating a priesthood.

Well we see Lufgt Huron get hit by a melta at point blank range and survive (barely). Ghazy is a Ork Warlord whom we know is naturally tougher and stronger than just about any space marine. The Ork body can just take more hits and more abuse due to its natural strength and resilience. I would also venture to say that Ghazys armor is so massive and heavy that it would be on dreadnought level of protection meaning I could see him tanking a melta gun shot and continue to fight on.

 Ashiraya wrote:
He really isn't as strong as people make him out to be. A lot of what he does is really just his gods paving his way for him. Without them he's just an ork in steel plating - deadly to the common man, but one melta shot away from death in ignominy. His reputation makes more orks flock to him and win his campaigns which increases his reputation...

He is not even close to the most impressive Ork we've seen so far - the one Horus and the Emperor met during the Great Crusade, for example, makes Ghaz look like a complete pushover.

He does have some seriously impressive plot armor though, so I doubt we'll see him die any time soon.

Orks can survive being shot by a Leman Russ battlecannon with everything in their chest cavity outright vaporized. Ghaz would walk off a melta.

Ghazzy is a force to be reckoned with. In the fluff he is stated to be a 'daemon' on the battlefield. Shows that he has a lot of skill. Some of his battlefield background shows him taking entire districts of cities all by himself, clearing sections in daemon infested space hulks, and cleansing swathes of land of enemies by destroying all enemies in his path. It has been shown time and time again that Ghazzy is a monster of a Warboss.


I don't really understand why you bring up the tactician side to Ghazz. Yes he is a genius, and yes he does not fight on the front lines as much as other commanders do, but that is for a reason. It is shown that he saves himself for charging into the hardest of fights, simply because he is to busy for anything less. This shows that Ghazzy has a great understanding of tactics and tempo in a campaign. Also shows that he picks the best fights for himself. When he enters a fight, the fight seems to naturally turn into his favor. The only opponent that was able to handle his attacks repeatedly and not fall is Ole man Yarrick, but other then him we do not see anyone holding a candle to Ghazzy.

Ghazzy is the epitome of orkiness, he is the chosen of the ork gods and is backed by them. He is smart and strong and is a match for any and all, it is best not to underestimate Ghazzy. He is capable of winning any and all fights.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Ghazzy is a Lord of War if you want a power scale reference from the tabletop. He's an Eternal Warrior, which means a direct hit from a Demolisher Cannon will only wound him. For that matter a S8 meltagun, or even a S9 Lascannon, will never do more than wound a T5 bog-standard Warbosswearing naught but his skivvies. Ghazzy's only 'gift' from Gork/Mork (unless you count his damaged brain-pan and a conviction that he's da Profit uv da Waaagh) is an improved Waaaagh - which is really just a manifestation of his Orky mystique as da Biggest, Baddest Warboss uv dem All.

Ghazkull's real power isn't represented on the tabletop. For an Ork he's a thinker. Not only is he a tactician, he's a strategist. In the run-up to 3rd Armageddon he kept Imperial command and intelligence in the dark about his intentions until he struck - against the obvious target. That took some real skill. (And don't give von Strab any credit, he was an incompetent buffoon when he was Governor of Armageddon during round 2.)

Anyone who thinks Gork and Mork are paving the way 'for' Ghazkull doesn't know spit about Orks or their gods. Gork and Mork never coddle their favorites and do not reinforce failure. For that matter they never really 'reward' their followers with anything more than more Orkyness... which their followers arguably earn all on their own.

Unlike the Chaos Gods or the Emperor you do not see sacrifice being rewarded, gifts being given or miracles being performed in the name of Gork/Mork. They're exemplars of Ork-kind, to be emulated rather than petitioned for wish fulfillment.

You'll note that Orks have no priests. Most likely asking gods for help would get you killed because you weren't tough, resilient and self-reliant enough. Or wary enough to see the backstab coming. Or you'd get a good stompin' from a bigger, tougher Ork fer bein' weak an' weedy like 'Umies.

I'm mildly irritated by people who pronounce about Orks who haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about.

My two cents.

this exalted
but ghaz is favoured of gork and mork, they want him to lead the last great waaagh that will usher in gork and mork themselves, they have teleported him away from armourgedon, not to save him, but to hvae him start a great waaagh elsewhere. he is favoured but all his exploits are his own kunnin and strength, he is favoured becasue he personifies both the kunin brutality of gork and the brutal kunin of mork...no other boss can boast this...but this does give him pretty big plot armour and if gw wanted to lose a lot of ork players they would kill of ghaz and thus in turn really destroy any hope for ork victory in the galaxy.

geargutz wrote:

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Ghazzy is a Lord of War if you want a power scale reference from the tabletop. He's an Eternal Warrior, which means a direct hit from a Demolisher Cannon will only wound him. For that matter a S8 meltagun, or even a S9 Lascannon, will never do more than wound a T5 bog-standard Warbosswearing naught but his skivvies. Ghazzy's only 'gift' from Gork/Mork (unless you count his damaged brain-pan and a conviction that he's da Profit uv da Waaagh) is an improved Waaaagh - which is really just a manifestation of his Orky mystique as da Biggest, Baddest Warboss uv dem All.

Ghazkull's real power isn't represented on the tabletop. For an Ork he's a thinker. Not only is he a tactician, he's a strategist. In the run-up to 3rd Armageddon he kept Imperial command and intelligence in the dark about his intentions until he struck - against the obvious target. That took some real skill. (And don't give von Strab any credit, he was an incompetent buffoon when he was Governor of Armageddon during round 2.)

Anyone who thinks Gork and Mork are paving the way 'for' Ghazkull doesn't know spit about Orks or their gods. Gork and Mork never coddle their favorites and do not reinforce failure. For that matter they never really 'reward' their followers with anything more than more Orkyness... which their followers arguably earn all on their own.

Unlike the Chaos Gods or the Emperor you do not see sacrifice being rewarded, gifts being given or miracles being performed in the name of Gork/Mork. They're exemplars of Ork-kind, to be emulated rather than petitioned for wish fulfillment.

You'll note that Orks have no priests. Most likely asking gods for help would get you killed because you weren't tough, resilient and self-reliant enough. Or wary enough to see the backstab coming. Or you'd get a good stompin' from a bigger, tougher Ork fer bein' weak an' weedy like 'Umies.

I'm mildly irritated by people who pronounce about Orks who haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about.

My two cents.

.but this does give him pretty big plot armour and if gw wanted to lose a lot of ork players they would kill of ghaz and thus in turn really destroy any hope for ork victory in the galaxy.

And then Gorgutz make his glorious return and steals the show, krumps the Imperium and finally wins at something.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Gorkamorka had many things that have since been ignored or retconned. Yellerboyz were better known for their voices (as the name implies) than prayer, sacrifice, divine gifts or miracles. Add to that Gorkamorka was an isolated world reverting to barbarism (by Ork standards) and you have very dodgy source material.

However, you're right. The Orks on that planet in that game had something vaguely approximating a priesthood.

Sigh, don't remind me of Gorkamorka, I miss it so. I still have the print offs of the rules back when GW gave them out for free. Although I'm fairly certain they made it to third edition. But I've never been an Ork player.

Can't remember the book, I believe it was a short story by BL, where Belial recounts his encounter with Ghazskull. Belial thinks he can finish the fight himself, catching Ghazskull ful in the face with his Stormbolter. It bounces off Ghazzes skull (it doesn't even break the skin of his un-augmented cheekbone) and Ghazskull laughts that he's pinked the paintwork. Ghaz wades up to him though the fire, taking a fully charged plasma pistol round to the chest which he also laughs off. Then strafing aircraft blow up the building he was under, burying him in rubble.

Belial decides to finish this in close combat (which he admits in his retelling was a stupid idea) and goes to find him. Ghaz breaks out the rubble and THRASHES Belial. Apparently he is tremendously fast for a Dreadnaught sized Ork, his big shoota fires a mix of Modified Plasma, explosive and heavy rounds that would of wrecked Belial if his displacer field didn't save his ass. In close combat he annihaltes Belial, who is only saved by the Deathwing teleporting him and point blanking Ghaz with their Stormbolters. Ghaz still manages to rip the closest Terminators a new one before they teleport out. And Ghaz was up and fighting the next day!

Saying Ghazskull is one Melta shot away from death is a lie. I understand the sentiment, I made the exact same claim about Primarchs, that if i stuck a melta down their throat and pulled the trigger they'd die. But people in 40K (The important people at least) are so durable as to defy physics.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Can't remember the book, I believe it was a short story by BL, where Belial recounts his encounter with Ghazskull. Belial thinks he can finish the fight himself, catching Ghazskull ful in the face with his Stormbolter. It bounces off Ghazzes skull (it doesn't even break the skin of his un-augmented cheekbone) and Ghazskull laughts that he's pinked the paintwork. Ghaz wades up to him though the fire, taking a fully charged plasma pistol round to the chest which he also laughs off. Then strafing aircraft blow up the building he was under, burying him in rubble.

Belial decides to finish this in close combat (which he admits in his retelling was a stupid idea) and goes to find him. Ghaz breaks out the rubble and THRASHES Belial. Apparently he is tremendously fast for a Dreadnaught sized Ork, his big shoota fires a mix of Modified Plasma, explosive and heavy rounds that would of wrecked Belial if his displacer field didn't save his ass. In close combat he annihaltes Belial, who is only saved by the Deathwing teleporting him and point blanking Ghaz with their Stormbolters.

So they save him with weapons that allegedly can't even pierce Ghaz's unaugmented skin?

I call BS and propaganda. Bolt weapons are even less powerful at point blank range since the bolt's rocket part doesn't have time to build speed.

Found it (http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/accept-no-failure-mp3.html)

A Paint Ball doesn't pierce the skin, but they dam well sting. Now imagine hundreds of rapid fire paint balls at point blank into your body. That's gonna divert your attention long enough for Belial to get himself to safety as the Deathwing interpose themselves between him and them. This is mainly off of memory as I borrowed the Audio book off a friend, but I remember the story line. Belial shoots Ghaz. Nothing. Thunderhawks drop building on him, nothing. Belial goes to finish it in Close Combat, underestimating Ghaz. Ghaz makes it to Close Combat, and is winning. Ghaz would of killed Belial if the Deathwing didn't pop in to save him. Belial teleports away and considers this his greatest failure.

Buy it, the voice actor for Ghazskull is great.

This reminds me of that Iron Snakes squad who wiped out thousands of Dark Eldar warriors on their own.

How so? It doesn't seem much like Hyperbole to me. Ghazskull is immensley resilient, that's shown many times in the Ghazskull supplement. He's been eaten by a Mawlock Prime, had a Hive tyrant claw stuck so far in his belly the Mad Dok had to vacuum out his insides, take the claw out then pump it all back in, while he still lived. Then Ghazskull 'took it easy' for 2 hours before headbutting a Squiggoth that got in his way and continuing the war. It makes perfect sense for him to shrug off Stormbolter wounds. The Plasma shot got through his armour, he just didn't care.

So whats Hyperbole here? The fact he can shrug off Bolter wounds with his T5 2+ armour (and he probably deserves FnP fluffwise) or the fact he was pummeling Belial in combat?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How so? It doesn't seem much like Hyperbole to me. Ghazskull is immensley resilient, that's shown many times in the Ghazskull supplement. He's been eaten by a Mawlock Prime, had a Hive tyrant claw stuck so far in his belly the Mad Dok had to vacuum out his insides, take the claw out then pump it all back in, while he still lived. Then Ghazskull 'took it easy' for 2 hours before headbutting a Squiggoth that got in his way and continuing the war. It makes perfect sense for him to shrug off Stormbolter wounds. The Plasma shot got through his armour, he just didn't care.

So whats Hyperbole here? The fact he can shrug off Bolter wounds with his T5 2+ armour (and he probably deserves FnP fluffwise) or the fact he was pummeling Belial in combat?

Everything is canon. Everything and nothing is hyperbole.

As far as I am concerned, that includes pretty much everything you just said.

Orks were my first army. I used to play them a lot and thought they were really fun. But I suppose I am no longer a fan of the 'mad bantz' that are everything that faction is. I imagine what really turned me off was the 'Orks vs Necrons' thread earlier when I realised just how many seriously thought the Orks would win through the power of xdddddd.

I suppose I just grew up.

Also, this is not the forum for game mechanics.

All this and then throw in the fact that he has literal plot armor via the Ork gods and you get a very scary monster.

 Ashiraya wrote:
He really isn't as strong as people make him out to be. A lot of what he does is really just his gods paving his way for him. Without them he's just an ork in steel plating - deadly to the common man, but one melta shot away from death in ignominy

To be fair, "one melta shot away from death in ignominy" describes almost EVERY character of roughly human or superhuman proportions. If you go by your definition, Marneus Calgar isn't really that tough because a good melta shot will take his head off and most of his torso with it.

That said, in the past (not sure about most recent codex, but I doubt this has changed), he had Eternal Warrior, so by the rules he could survive melta shots unlike most characters, and in fact could survive things that would instagib most characters, and yet keep fighting.

Ghaz is an immense character. To think of him as MERELY the most brilliant strategist since Creed would leave you a messy paste on the floor from underestimating him. He is also one of the biggest and most powerful Ork Warlords in the galaxy. He is a monster of war.

 Melissia wrote:

To be fair, "one melta shot away from death in ignominy" describes almost EVERY character of roughly human or superhuman proportions. If you go by your definition, Marneus Calgar isn't really that tough because a good melta shot will take his head off and most of his torso with it.

That said, in the past (not sure about most recent codex, but I doubt this has changed), he had Eternal Warrior, so by the rules he could survive melta shots unlike most characters, and in fact could survive things that would instagib most characters, and yet keep fighting.

Well, so does Calgar...

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

To be fair, "one melta shot away from death in ignominy" describes almost EVERY character of roughly human or superhuman proportions. If you go by your definition, Marneus Calgar isn't really that tough because a good melta shot will take his head off and most of his torso with it.

That said, in the past (not sure about most recent codex, but I doubt this has changed), he had Eternal Warrior, so by the rules he could survive melta shots unlike most characters, and in fact could survive things that would instagib most characters, and yet keep fighting.

Well, so does Calgar...

That's because chances are if you hit Calgar with a melta, you'll probably just hit machinary.

So what? A meltagun can blow up a Leman Russ with one shot.

To be honest I wouldnt doubt it if Calgar's cybernetics were more resistent to punishment then a Leman Russ. He is a space marine and as such has access to the finest quality of handwavium metal.

To say that Ghazghkull, whose skin is dense enough to deflect bolts with nary a scratch, doesn't have the blessings of G'Morka is to say that Abaddon doesn't have the blessings of the Chaos Gods. It just doesn't make sense.