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2016/01/06 00:34:25
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Da Boss wrote: Those foreigners are fleeing a genocidal war in a region destabilised by our friendly neighbourhood world police.
This idea of foreigners being "let in" is ridiculous. It's a massive human wave which can only be compared to the end of WW2.
To be clear though - the perpetrators are scum, women absolutely do not need to change their behaviour and anyone they can catch should be arrested or deported. This incident makes me extremely angry and I hope to feth it's taken seriously here. There's a terrible tendency to shy away from issues like this in Germany out of a misplaced sense of liberalism, and now is not the time for that. It's not the time for reactionary actions against refugees either.
So your position is that Germany is responsible for the instability in the Middle East and Africa and therefore is compelled by some kind of guilt driven moral imperative to create accommodations for tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of refugees that view German women as targets to be gang raped? That's a false obligation. German doesn't need to let refugees in and the country would be better off if they didn't.
My snarky reply was actually aimed at placing the responsibility for the state of the region partially at the door of the UK and the US for their failed interventions in the region.
It's my belief that people with your opinion will be looked at with the same revulsion as those who did not want to let the jews in when they were fleeing the Nazi's, in the future.
Oh, and of bloody course the uniting factor is Islam, I thought that was bloody obvious? I'm no fan - it's an awful religion with an awful culture of oppressing women attached to it. Most religions have some section with weird ideas about women, but Islam is the worst that I'm aware of.
I was in Istanbul not long ago and I was admiring the Mosques for their beautiful architecture and lovely airy, light spaces, and reflecting how such a space is a nicer place for a community to get together than the gloomy churches back home. Then I looked behind me and saw the cage like structure where the women are segregated and thought "You know what, maybe it's not so nice after all."
Doubt Merkel is going anywhere - there's no one who is a real threat to her leadership of the CDU. It's definitely going to be used against her by the xenophobes in her party though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 00:46:07
Doubt Merkel is going anywhere - there's no one who is a real threat to her leadership of the CDU. It's definitely going to be used against her by the xenophobes in her party though.
Xenophobes?
You really don't see a fething connection between out of control mass immigration of brutalized refugees from cultures that are deeply misogynistic, fleeing active warzones... and a gigantic mob rampaging through a European city raping women en masse?
If there was ever an argument for controlling a country's borders and being very selective and careful about who is permitted to enter...this is it.
2016/01/06 00:57:33
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Want to sling some more hyperbole my way there mate? Of course I see the bloody connection. But what is the alternative?
What do you suggest is done about the hundreds of thousands of people fleeing our way then? How do you keep them out? How do you "secure the borders"? It's fantasy.
What disgusts me about this thread is the distinct feeling I get that some posters are quite satisfied that something has happened so they can point the finger at Merkel and Germany for trying to do the right thing, even when it is difficult and riddled with intractable problems.
My snarky reply was actually aimed at placing the responsibility for the state of the region partially at the door of the UK and the US for their failed interventions in the region.
It's my belief that people with your opinion will be looked at with the same revulsion as those who did not want to let the jews in when they were fleeing the Nazi's, in the future.
Oh, and of bloody course the uniting factor is Islam, I thought that was bloody obvious? I'm no fan - it's an awful religion with an awful culture of oppressing women attached to it. Most religions have some section with weird ideas about women, but Islam is the worst that I'm aware of.
I was in Istanbul not long ago and I was admiring the Mosques for their beautiful architecture and lovely airy, light spaces, and reflecting how such a space is a nicer place for a community to get together than the gloomy churches back home. Then I looked behind me and saw the cage like structure where the women are segregated and thought "You know what, maybe it's not so nice after all."
Exalted
2016/01/06 01:47:29
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
2016/01/06 01:55:09
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion. I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/06 01:59:14
2016/01/06 02:03:06
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf is clearly the sign that you're a relic from cave man times.
SJW's are in a catch-22. Who's rights do they champion? Women's rights, or ethnic minority rights?
Criticize the ethnic minority males carrying out these attacks > get accused of racism and xenophobia.
Defend refugees and try to hand waive these attacks as a tiny minorty > get accused of turning a blind eye to misogyny.
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
2016/01/06 02:14:30
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I know you've got the sarcasm light on, but friends and myself have jumped into something like that before a few times with the idea of taking as many to ER with us as we could. One thing I cannot stand seeing is someone being mobbed, and I can't understand someone standing there and watching it without doing something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 02:15:58
2016/01/06 02:16:41
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf is clearly the sign that you're a relic from cave man times.
SJW's are in a catch-22. Who's rights do they champion? Women's rights, or ethnic minority rights?
Criticize the ethnic minority males carrying out these attacks > get accused of racism and xenophobia.
Defend refugees and try to hand waive these attacks as a tiny minorty > get accused of turning a blind eye to misogyny.
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
"Men who sexually assault women are scumbags and should be dealt with."
I'm exhausted from mentally dealing with this horrible Catch 22, I'm going to need a nap.
2016/01/06 02:17:11
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Don't turn this into a "lol SJW rahrahrah" thing, that's just trying to insult and shut down a large number of people who take part in these discussions by applying a term to them which is used in a derogatory fashion. Don't do it, it's not polite and it's not how you have an honest discussion.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2016/01/06 02:21:05
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
I would have thought the stonings and only 1/4th the say of a man in court already highlighted that.
But the West should totally look the other way on those things because women only make 70% of men or something, or its not real like 1/4 of college women getting sexually assaulted. Those sexual assaults are super real and serious. These sexual assaults are simply a matter of cultural misunderstanding and we should understand. At least I think that's the current memo I got.
2016/01/06 02:22:28
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
This is the type thing (and worse) that will happen to women in frontline units should they ever be over run by enemy forces and why many male military members don't want females in combat. (especially in 3rd world countries) It isn't because they disrespect women choosing to serve or doubting their ability but because they don't want to see them subjected to the horrors of treatment that men will likely inflict on them. There are areas of the world that will treat captives female soldiers worse than dogs.
2016/01/06 02:22:53
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
Don't forget though, cyber-touching is 'equally as damaging' as physical touching* according to certain first world feminists. Women who experienced this molestation are just as hurt as women who get nasty emails.
*pg 48 of the recent UN CYBER VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND GIRLS report found here.
2016/01/06 02:30:47
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I know you've got the sarcasm light on, but friends and myself have jumped into something like that before a few times with the idea of taking as many to ER with us as we could. One thing I cannot stand seeing is someone being mobbed, and I can't understand someone standing there and watching it without doing something.
That's because while your personal religion has had some "hiccups" with women's rights, they grew up decades ago and stopped. Another major belief, not so much. Those men stood there and watched because they didn't really think it was a big deal. Just like that case in FL awhile ago where it was filmed while a group of men gangraped a woman. Or the almost teeth-pulling length of time its taken for women in India to get equal rights in rape cases for women.
But hey, women in KSA, UAE, Iraq, Syria, Algeria, Iran, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tunisia, etc. at least have equal rights in the court of law.
Wait, what? They don't? I'm shocked. Wonder what the connection between such disparate ethnic groups across thousands of miles could be. I've got no idea. Anyone else?
2016/01/06 02:32:37
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Da Boss wrote: Want to sling some more hyperbole my way there mate?
Excuse me?? Hyperbole? This from you, who labels everyone opposed to a human tidal wave as xenophobes?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
[The rest of my post is spoilered for length:]
Spoiler:
What disgusts me about this thread is the distinct feeling I get that...
And what disgusts ME is this persistent willful blindness of European leaders and refusal to accept that social unrest like this was an entirely predictable consequence of European policy.
some posters are quite satisfied that something has happened so they can point the finger at Merkel and Germany
We didn't need this to happen so we could point the finger at Merkel. We've been pointing the finger at Merkel (among other European leaders) for the last year, warning gak like this was going to happen and indeed has happened. There has been a year long string of incidents that can be directly attributed to or have been exacerbated by the migrant free-for-all that that European leaders such as Merkel encouraged early on.
for trying to do the right thing, even when it is difficult and riddled with intractable problems.
I disagree that encouraging and incentivizing a dangerous, unstoppable free-for-all of human beings to cross an entire continent without legal permission, violently forcing their way through border crossings, risking their children on treacherous winter seas and being preyed and exploited on by ruthless organized gangs, swamping European countries to the point that local infrastructure is overwhelmed... is the right thing to do.
These people stopped being refugees the moment they left Turkey or whatever the safe and stable country is to their country of origin...and became economic migrants looking for a better standard of living. (And of course, I don't blame them for that - I would want to do the same thing in their position - but that still doesn't make it the 'right thing to do').
Of course I see the bloody connection. But what is the alternative?
What do you suggest is done about the hundreds of thousands of people fleeing our way then? How do you keep them out? How do you "secure the borders"? It's fantasy.
By scrapping or at least temporarily suspending the Schengen Agreement and re-establishing national border controls. Border control wasn't fantasy before the Schengen Area was established, and its not a fantasy for the UK and other countries today that are not signatories to the Schengen Agreement.
A). If these people are refugees, not economic migrants, then they should be treated as should. They should be obligated to claim asylum and remain in the first stable country they arrive in. For the vast majority of Syrians, this is probably Turkey. For Africans - Tunisia or perhaps Egypt depending on how the security situations in those countries develop with the recent attack(s) by ISIS.
B). We should be throwing all our resources behind these countries designated as refugee holding centres to support them. We should be funding the construction of a whole network of refugee centres along the Turkish border to make sure these refugees can be provided for and housed in a safe environment. International Aid budgets should be redirected to Turkey and these other designated countries. India is rich enough to afford a space program. Why are we enabling the neglect of their own poor and indirectly subsidizing their space program?
C). Refugees who wish to immigrate into European countries should apply for entry visas and/or citizenship at these refugee centres and go through a proper asylum process. Refugees should be screened to the best of our Intelligence Services' abilities (I accept that this will be a difficult almost impossible task, but we should still try) to weed out ISIS and other radical Jihadiist groups. Refugees should also be screened to identify those people who are unlikely to integrate well into European societies and will pose a danger to European citizens. As we've seen in Cologne with young, Arab men treating women like sex toys. These people should be quarantined and barred from entering Europe until such time as they can be safely returned to their home country or, dare I say it, 're-educated' and acclimatized to European cultures and values (such as a Woman's right not to be groped. ).
Positive Discrimination (or Racial Profiling) should be employed to fast track the asylum applications of people who pose the least statistical risk. The greatest current terror risk is from the radical fringes of Islam. ISIS are Muslim, semantics aside. You can argue that they aren't good Muslims, or that they follow a twisted and perverted form of Islam, but they are Muslims. Yazidi Christians on the other hand, aren't carrying out terror attacks as far as I'm aware, so they can be prioritized for asylum.
I can't believe I'm going to say this...but David Cameron deserves praise for his wise decision to only take in refugees directly from the refugee centres in Turkey and other Middle East countries, not the hordes of people who have illegally forced their way into Europe and are camping out at the channel tunnel. (Or not - has he actually put that policy into effect or did he chicken out?)
D). Asylum seekers who's immigration applications are approved should be distributed across Europe according to the ability of each nation to accommodate and house them. Britain is a small island nation a fraction the size of Germany or France, and we have a housing shortage - we can barely provide enough housing for our own citizens, never mind hundreds of thousands of refugees. Therefore we cannot accommodate the same number of refugees as Germany or France. Whilst each refugee's circumstances should be taken into account (e.g. what languages they speak, whether they already have family in a particular European country), they should not be given any say in this. There should be no sympathy and tolerance of migrants who cross the entire European continent, bypassing one safe and stable country after another (Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Italy, France, Belgium), trying to reach the richest countries with the most generous welfare systems.
E). Illegal immigrants who force their way into European countries should be deported, period. We need to take a hard line on this and crack down on it, otherwise its never going to stop if people know the risk is worth it. The rule of law is being undermined, our immigration laws are not being enforced. Our current policy of open door immigration for anyone and everyone whether they're genuine refugees or not is not sustainable. Sweden proved that when they were forced to close their border...after making a blanket invitation (ditto for Germany).
F). Countries all over the world should be contributing to the response to this refugee crisis, if they aren't already. How many refugees are America and Canada taking? And crucially, how many of the rich(ish) and stable Muslim nations are taking in refugees? Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Iran, Qatar? The vast majority of these refugees are Muslim, and would best integrate into other Muslim countries. Its an extreme culture shock for conservative Muslims to suddenly find themselves in the socially and sexually liberal nations of Europe.
To be clear - I don't hold the refugees responsible for this crisis. I lay the blame at the feet of our contemptible and incompetent leaders. We need to stop all this emotive bs like "doing the right thing" and "we have a moral obligation". Wise, sustainable policy decision are never made when Government policy is dictated by emotion and hysterics. Sweden proved that.
If thats too long for you to digest and rebut, feel free to dismiss it out of hand and call me a xenophobe. I expect nothing less.
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion. I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf is clearly the sign that you're a relic from cave man times.
SJW's are in a catch-22. Who's rights do they champion? Women's rights, or ethnic minority rights?
Criticize the ethnic minority males carrying out these attacks > get accused of racism and xenophobia. Defend refugees and try to hand waive these attacks as a tiny minorty > get accused of turning a blind eye to misogyny.
Take note First World Feminists, this is what real Misogyny looks like.
"Men who sexually assault women are scumbags and should be dealt with."
I'm exhausted from mentally dealing with this horrible Catch 22, I'm going to need a nap.
You're missing the point. Other SJW's with a different set of priorities will call you racist for calling Arab Muslims scumbags.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2016/01/06 02:44:15
2016/01/06 02:39:58
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I know you've got the sarcasm light on, but friends and myself have jumped into something like that before a few times with the idea of taking as many to ER with us as we could. One thing I cannot stand seeing is someone being mobbed, and I can't understand someone standing there and watching it without doing something.
That's because while your personal religion has had some "hiccups" with women's rights, they grew up decades ago and stopped. Another major belief, not so much. Those men stood there and watched because they didn't really think it was a big deal. Just like that case in FL awhile ago where it was filmed while a group of men gangraped a woman. Or the almost teeth-pulling length of time its taken for women in India to get equal rights in rape cases for women.
But hey, women in KSA, UAE, Iraq, Syria, Algeria, Iran, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tunisia, etc. at least have equal rights in the court of law.
Wait, what? They don't? I'm shocked. Wonder what the connection between such disparate ethnic groups across thousands of miles could be. I've got no idea. Anyone else?
This doesn't just have to do with my religion, though. When I lived in PA, the Germans and Italians I knew there were always ready to jump in and stop that kind of crap.
Wait, I'm slow and just caught your meaning I think. What about the native Germans though? I'm trying to understand the circumstance where they would just let this happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 02:43:33
2016/01/06 02:44:54
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I definitely think you and Edithae would call me an SJW without a shadow of doubt if you saw my activism, but I think this is quite easy - if someone is in trouble like this, bystanders should do their best to overcome the bystander mentality and do something about it.
The gender, race, ethnicity, age, orientation or whatever of all involved on both sides is irrelevant in the above.
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion.
I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I know you've got the sarcasm light on, but friends and myself have jumped into something like that before a few times with the idea of taking as many to ER with us as we could. One thing I cannot stand seeing is someone being mobbed, and I can't understand someone standing there and watching it without doing something.
That's because while your personal religion has had some "hiccups" with women's rights, they grew up decades ago and stopped. Another major belief, not so much. Those men stood there and watched because they didn't really think it was a big deal. Just like that case in FL awhile ago where it was filmed while a group of men gangraped a woman. Or the almost teeth-pulling length of time its taken for women in India to get equal rights in rape cases for women.
But hey, women in KSA, UAE, Iraq, Syria, Algeria, Iran, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tunisia, etc. at least have equal rights in the court of law.
Wait, what? They don't? I'm shocked. Wonder what the connection between such disparate ethnic groups across thousands of miles could be. I've got no idea. Anyone else?
This doesn't just have to do with my religion, though. When I lived in PA, the Germans and Italians I knew there were always ready to jump in and stop that kind of crap.
Oh it has nothing to at all to do with your religion, what you describe is what I feel and have seen. I just wanted to highlight the fact religious adherents can and have changed their views, ie Mormons. It's not at all "unpossible" for Muslim nations to start treating women like, ya know, people. Its just not, ya know, happening.
OT Relapse I probably come down too hard on the Mormon's and I do apologize for that. I've seen the crossing at Lee's Ferry finally last month, which the old school settlers had to cross just to get married, and it blew me away kinda. Couple that with the fact that Mormon's really do seem to be good, honest, and again just overall good people that mean no ill will. I've let my personal beliefs (grew up outside Hill Cumorah) prejudice my thoughts.
I feel like I should be seeing similarities here between the faiths, but I don't. Mormonism has actively tried to renounce it's transgressions against women, other races, and now even gays. Islam seems to be heading the other direction sadly.
EDIT to your edit Relapse, I don't think there were too many native Germans around when this type of gak was happening. Its a crowd so Im sure some were, but doesn't look like the majority.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 02:55:31
2016/01/06 02:59:25
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
I definitely think you and Edithae would call me an SJW without a shadow of doubt if you saw my activism, but I think this is quite easy - if someone is in trouble like this, bystanders should do their best to overcome the bystander mentality and do something about it.
The gender, race, ethnicity, age, orientation or whatever of all involved on both sides is irrelevant in the above.
You could not be more wrong. The gender/race/ethnicity or whatever of the bystanders were VERY relevant in this case as to why they did nothing. When your culture tells you women are objects/property you are not likely to step in when you see this type of abuse.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2016/01/06 03:05:35
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Relapse wrote: In all of this, where the hell were the men to defend the women? I think most posters here would be in the middle of that punching, elbowing and kicking any man or group they saw abusing women in such an outrageous fashion. I know if it happened here where I live, these guys would have gotten a severe beat down by the local populace.
That's a totally sexist stance at least according to all the SJWs. No woman needs a man to step in and do anything for her and by suggesting that a man should fight on her behalf it's clearly a sign that you're a dusty relic from cave man times.
I definitely think you and Edithae would call me an SJW without a shadow of doubt if you saw my activism, but I think this is quite easy - if someone is in trouble like this, bystanders should do their best to overcome the bystander mentality and do something about it.
The gender, race, ethnicity, age, orientation or whatever of all involved on both sides is irrelevant in the above.
Because that is socially just.
No.
I regard SJW more as a pattern of behaviour, rather than simple activism. People who seek the utter ruination and social ostracisation of somebody for a trivial joke, such as Tim Hunt are SJW's. People who decry a scientist and force him into a humiliating and grovelling public apology for daring to wear a shirt made by his female friend when he should be enjoying the proudest moment of his career are SJWs. People who engage in identity politics and use it as a weapon.
I don't know you well enough nor do I remember the specifics of your contributions to the GamerGate debates a year back to consider you an SJW, but you do think highly of some people I regard to be SJW's and that is where we differ.
And btw I do actually agree with this sentiment...
I definitely think you and Edithae would call me an SJW without a shadow of doubt if you saw my activism, but I think this is quite easy - if someone is in trouble like this, bystanders should do their best to overcome the bystander mentality and do something about it.
...Because that is socially just.
Those are all irrelevant of course. But Culture is relevant. The values, beliefs and systems of morality that a person is raised with shapes their behaviour. We saw that with the men in Cologne who didn't think they were doing anything wrong in assaulting women en masse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 03:09:38
2016/01/06 03:11:28
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Ashiraya wrote: You misunderstand me. I said it is irrelevant as to what bystanders should do, not what they did.
'Should' was defined by their culture, not your desire.
Frankly, feth your idea of 'should'. What you should do in this context has nothing to do with your culture. You could be a Bosnian Buddhist or a Norwegian Hinduist or an American Christian, it doesn't matter, you shouldn't commit gang violence either way.
Is this not obvious?
FTR I think immigrants who commit serious crimes should be sent back to where they came from. Shoplifting, no. Mass violence, yes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/06 03:12:50
Man, just yesterday I watched that video of the fat German kid on rollerblades get beat up and laughed at by what seemed to be a few Turk/Arab kids and thought "It'll probably get worse". Then this drops.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2016/01/06 03:22:34
Subject: Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
Ashiraya wrote: You misunderstand me. I said it is irrelevant as to what bystanders should do, not what they did.
'Should' was defined by their culture, not your desire.
Frankly, feth your idea of 'should'. What you should do in this context has nothing to do with your culture. You could be a Bosnian Buddhist or a Norwegian Hinduist or an American Christian, it doesn't matter, you shouldn't commit gang violence either way.
You are arguing from a Eurocentric, liberal perspective. The bastards responsible for this have very different ideas about what they should and should not do.
Is this not obvious?
To us, yes. To people raised in a genuinely misogynistic culture, no.
FTR I think immigrants who commit serious crimes should be sent back to where they came from. Shoplifting, no. Mass violence, yes.
I agree. But how many of these people will be sent back? No doubt European courts will prioritize their human rights over the rights of their victims.
