Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:04:22
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inspiring Icon Bearer
|
About once or twice a year I watch a few friends enjoy a game of 40k and think, "That looks like fun."
I dust off my models, buy the current CSM codex, and load up ol' army builder for a game, only to remember it's not that simple anymore.
I show up with my 60 cultists, demon prince of tzeentch, screamers, and dino bots because dammit, dino bots are cool looking.
My opponent has all kinds of new stuff in play. (not in one game)
Str D weapons are a thing now?
Gargantuan creatures and superheavies?
Imperial Knights are their own army?
Getting in other peoples transports?
Skyhammer drop formations?
Everything in Warhammer has gotten so over the top! It's not about just putting your dudes on the table. Now there's extra books, extra rules, books for factions that are just splinters of a faction, taking free transports/weapons/units/non dying necrons... it's just like ..
It reminds me of the last year or two of an MMO, where everyone has tons and tons of over the top stuff. Where it was once cool to do 1,000 damage on a hit, unless you do 10,000 damage, your not keeping up. It feels like my poor little cult of tzeentch things are playing an entirely different game than everyone else.
So here I am, considering re-entering the game again and I don't even know where to start. I don't want to by an army by formation, but that seems the only way to play anymore... maximizing the best formation bonuses for as much free/power spam as you can get.
I remember my first league game coming back, when my opponent was flying around Belakor, 2 Lords of Change, pink horrors, and summoning mountains demons. I realized very quickly against double invis that I wasn't even in the same frame of mind as the rest of 40k anymore.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:07:07
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
When me and my friends played we just stuck to the old 5th edition. Much less headache and we can't afford the new flyers.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:11:36
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Monstrous Master Moulder
Rust belt
|
My advice would be to look into other games..
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:12:55
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
|
The "modeling" company wants you to buy the stuff that's needed in their power creeped formations.
And yes it is quite annoying to have a good game dragged down by greed.
As a stopgap measure, you can chat with your opponents and either try to pull the power level of the game down some, or maybe get some older edition games running. I also find large apocalypse games have enough going on that the individual imbalances like undercosted models and ridic formations don't matter as much.
|
20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:13:00
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
Im not having a pop OP but youre blaming the game for not being fun because you are unfamiliar with new rules like D, GMCs etc and out of touch with recent developments?
A little unfair I feel. Ask your friends can you borrow the latest codicies, rules, formations, get to know what you;re up against and build a list against it.
Alternatively ask them to pick less "optimised" lists and have more friendly games.
What you are missing is a learning curve. Of course things will be frustrating and unfun if you play once a year with unoptimised CSM VS a top tier steam roller army.
40k has some poor rules and other bonkers rules but its still damn fun imho.
PS CSM is general considered so sub par as to be comical Im afraid :(
|
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:13:05
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Infiltrating Prowler
|
Like, really.. We even had pseudo flyers in 5th.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:13:31
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inspiring Icon Bearer
|
Yea. I play a bunch of Sigmar, which is it's own barrel of disappointment sometimes. The problem is it's hard to break the mold when everyone has 40k armies.
I think Dropzone Commander is superior in every way, except maybe melee combat, but finding games is very difficult. Automatically Appended Next Post: niv-mizzet wrote:The "modeling" company wants you to buy the stuff that's needed in their power creeped formations.
And yes it is quite annoying to have a good game dragged down by greed.
As a stopgap measure, you can chat with your opponents and either try to pull the power level of the game down some, or maybe get some older edition games running. I also find large apocalypse games have enough going on that the individual imbalances like undercosted models and ridic formations don't matter as much.
Power creeps the word that sums it all up.
There's a ton of that with formations. I'm more okay with the new units and types than I am the creep and rigidity that the strong formations espouses. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Notice that Flyers wasn't in the list of things I had an issue with.
=D
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/08 22:16:14
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:20:13
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
I think he means me. I had issues with the current flyers.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:22:33
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
If you play with friends, just ask them to use lists that will provide a challenging game for both sides, and you'll be fine and can continue enjoying the game. If you want to play pick up games or tournaments, then you'll have to accept that the arms race has continued in your absence.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:22:54
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inspiring Icon Bearer
|
Ratius wrote:Im not having a pop OP but youre blaming the game for not being fun because you are unfamiliar with new rules like D, GMCs etc and out of touch with recent developments?
A little unfair I feel. Ask your friends can you borrow the latest codicies, rules, formations, get to know what you;re up against and build a list against it.
Alternatively ask them to pick less "optimised" lists and have more friendly games.
What you are missing is a learning curve. Of course things will be frustrating and unfun if you play once a year with unoptimised CSM VS a top tier steam roller army.
40k has some poor rules and other bonkers rules but its still damn fun imho.
PS CSM is general considered so sub par as to be comical Im afraid :(
It may be a tad unfair, I agree. It came up because I joined a "Beginners league", and the amount of power in each army (except the tzeentchy ones it seems) was just overwhelming. Throughout the league I played some Belakor led demon circus, shooty cancer-gun martians who were getting +2 BS from their codex gods, and then by the time I closed, were dropping my T and increasing their WS. (allied to a GK strike formation), loads of D-flamer eldar scooting around in dark eldar transports, a necron decurion formation, imperial knights, space marines with almost 1800 points of free tanks, another space marine who was using skyhammer formations, and then a few other bottom feeders like myself, some guy using Renegade IG regiments, a guy playing nids, and a girl playing sisters.
The game is still -fun-, I guess, but the power of the 'haves' is sooooo much higher than the standard level of power. Winning with Chaos (or 5 ed Eldar)used to be a matter of "this is uphill, but doable." Just seems everyone is too stronk at the moment. Honesltly, it's not about winning even. Fantasy was always my 'competitive game'. I was just sort of shell shocked, is all. Automatically Appended Next Post: JamesY wrote:If you play with friends, just ask them to use lists that will provide a challenging game for both sides, and you'll be fine and can continue enjoying the game. If you want to play pick up games or tournaments, then you'll have to accept that the arms race has continued in your absence.
Good point, +1. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Points value of Space Marine tanks is completely pulled out of my ass, btw.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/08 22:24:39
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:25:27
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
Play the same guy over and over again until you just start to make games up. Works well with me.
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:47:36
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I always believe that it is the people that you play that makes a good game, not the rules, lists or dice rolls. I have about 6-7 friends who I would happily play snakes and ladders with them using a d10, because I know that, win or lose, I'm going to have a fun time. Get your Dino bots out, and have fun with them.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:50:02
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Stitch Counter
|
JamesY wrote:I always believe that it is the people that you play that makes a good game, not the rules, lists or dice rolls. I have about 6-7 friends who I would happily play snakes and ladders with them using a d10, because I know that, win or lose, I'm going to have a fun time. Get your Dino bots out, and have fun with them. 
I agree with this - 40K has become a beer and pretzels game (in spirit for me, albeit with roo many rules to be truly relaxing) with like-minded friends.
For competition I've gone to Saga, Lion Rampant and starting Frostgrave which are simple, quite well balanced and cheaper
|
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:51:19
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
|
People were playing those lists in a beginner's league?
Who the feth was in charge of that thing?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:55:09
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Monstrous Master Moulder
Rust belt
|
Kanluwen wrote:People were playing those lists in a beginner's league?
Who the feth was in charge of that thing?
By the sounds of it no one. Must have just been a huge arms race with spamming the most broken stuff. No thx
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:55:35
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inspiring Icon Bearer
|
A nice guy who couldn't say no to people.
For what it's worth, he won 1 out of the 10 games with his IG parking lots and heavy weapons teams.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/08 22:59:25
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Navigator
Majestic class Escort Carrier HDMS True Unto Death, Battlefleet Pacificus
|
I just play for fluff, if my petty humans get rolled by cheesey xenos armies, I just chalk it up to it being fluffy. I prefer dong campaigns, ans smaller 500 pt games anyways.
|
-Me: Don't tell the commissar but i left my Imperial Infantrymans Uplifting Primer at home, but I do carry a folded Texas flag behind my front plate.
-Friend: Texas flag gives you AV14 all around.
Jury-Rig - makeshift repairs or temporary contrivances, made with only the tools and materials that happen to be on hand, the Machine Spirit is not pleased......
2500pts (Imperial Navy Armsmen)
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/09 01:06:12
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
|
It is just power creep. You can do a lot more differents things, now.
You really have to discuss with your opponent before making your lists.
Because otherwise your friends will bring a war convocation with a flesh tearer detachement and destroy your poor cultists.
But if you were playing against me, for example, you would have your chances: I have 0 psy, few flamers, no super-heavy, etc... in my "main" list.
Just tell your friends to play "friendly and fluffy"
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/09 01:07:41
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
With Lots and lots of alcohol and heavy house ruling, hold the house ruling and the 40k.
|
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/09 01:34:55
Subject: Re:How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
40k these days requires a meeting of the minds before the game. Talk and manage expectations of what is going to brought to a game.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/10 17:25:40
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Angelic Adepta Sororitas
earth
|
I play 40k with my brother and one of his friend. and that is all. I Bro's friend ahs all the armies, so it's always different everytime we play.
Barely any cheese and just general fun/funny/uncompetitive builds we're rolling. My build wouldn't last a turn if I'd go play at the local store.
My goal in 40k is to have fun. And demolishing my opponent with tons of grav guns ain't fun and neither is it fun for me to get face rekt by a cheese eldar build.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/10 17:48:35
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
40k is no longer playable at the global scale. We had a thread on this here and this was the outcome. However, it is still playable in a closed group where the members commit to some restrictions.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/10 17:48:53
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
|
Why not Heresy?
Almost equal armies (as most of the time you will be fighting space marines)
No OP formations that ruin the fun of 40k (Im looking at you Decurion..)
also PRIMARCHS (Who wouldnt want their chapters/legions primarch running around the table punching things???)
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/10 17:53:20
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
|
...dont play csm...Only play daemons...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/10 18:05:46
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Or Imperial Knights with some allies.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/11 05:18:56
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
|
Things change. Anyone who thought 40K would remain even remotely the same forever will be sorely disappointed.
Can feel overwhelming at first, the changes, but you'll get used to it. Your best bet of having fun if you result to playing strangers is finding people who agree to discussing lists beforehand.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/11 05:58:13
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Inspiring Icon Bearer
|
Yea, I can't help but shake this memory of 3.5 DnD before Pathfinder came and tossed a giant reset button on everything.
Things will get so far spread out and so crazy that at some point they're going to go "boop", and reduce it all back again to a new beginning.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/11 06:35:40
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
|
Thunderfrog wrote:
About once or twice a year I watch a few friends enjoy a game of 40k and think, "That looks like fun."
I dust off my models, buy the current CSM codex, and load up ol' army builder for a game, only to remember it's not that simple anymore.
I show up with my 60 cultists, demon prince of tzeentch, screamers, and dino bots because dammit, dino bots are cool looking.
My opponent has all kinds of new stuff in play. (not in one game)
Str D weapons are a thing now?
Gargantuan creatures and superheavies?
Imperial Knights are their own army?
Getting in other peoples transports?
Skyhammer drop formations?
Everything in Warhammer has gotten so over the top! It's not about just putting your dudes on the table. Now there's extra books, extra rules, books for factions that are just splinters of a faction, taking free transports/weapons/units/non dying necrons... it's just like ..
It reminds me of the last year or two of an MMO, where everyone has tons and tons of over the top stuff. Where it was once cool to do 1,000 damage on a hit, unless you do 10,000 damage, your not keeping up. It feels like my poor little cult of tzeentch things are playing an entirely different game than everyone else.
So here I am, considering re-entering the game again and I don't even know where to start. I don't want to by an army by formation, but that seems the only way to play anymore... maximizing the best formation bonuses for as much free/power spam as you can get.
I remember my first league game coming back, when my opponent was flying around Belakor, 2 Lords of Change, pink horrors, and summoning mountains demons. I realized very quickly against double invis that I wasn't even in the same frame of mind as the rest of 40k anymore.
You're not alone by any means, and many playgroups are dying because of exactly this thing. My own play has been curtailed to almost nothing at this point, and my once large local playgroup is now practically nonexistent.
The ultra competitive crowd and garage-gamer crowds (that largely make their own fun) are the ones having a good time with this edition, but it's pushing just about everyone else out in my experience.
|
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/11 06:43:51
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Huge Hierodule
|
Played 3 games of 7th Ed. Been waiting for 8th ed sense then....
|
was censored by the ministry of truth |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/11 10:11:15
Subject: How does one even play this game anymore?
|
 |
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
|
wuestenfux wrote:
40k is no longer playable at the global scale. We had a thread on this here and this was the outcome. However, it is still playable in a closed group where the members commit to some restrictions.
Very much this, I mostly play the same guys month in, month out and we agree what sort of things we are taking up front, so we might have a battle with no super heavies, no D, no flyers, etc. Other times we have a 10k a side battle with nothing but super heavies. Don't like the way your group want to play? Change group, its far easier than getting them to change.
|
|
 |
 |
|