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Going to try and make this painless as possible!

So I was wondering do Iron hands feel no pain stack? I have heard/dread about smash-fether and all that good stuff but when I look at their tactics in the newest codex it's says they "use the best version available" (page. 78)

I have a friend who plays IH and he says that his command squad "stacks there fnp so they have +4 feel no pain..." and we'll I am looking at the rules and not understanding how it stacks?

Your thoughts?

You aren't looking at the newest codex I'm afraid.

The current rules say that if you have no FnP, Iron Hands non-vehicles get a 6+ FnP. If they do have FnP from another source, they add +1 to the Dice Result (this is important).

The +1 to the Dice Result is basically applied for all Iron Hands related FnP wargears (other than the Narthecarium), which is why Smash-fether is so terrifying because it's possible to get him a 1+ Feel No Pain (see as follows):

Find a librarian with Endurance and cast it on him granting him a 4+ FnP.

Roll on the Clan Raaukan Warlords trait table and pray for Flesh is Weak (which grants +1 to your FnP)

Grab the Gorgon's Chains (which has another +1 FnP)

and finally the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics grant the final +1 FnP.

If you've been keeping score, that's a grand total of +3 FnP. However, note that due to the way it's written, you add 3 to your dice result, not reduce the number you need by 3. This means the usual rule of "A roll can't be improved past a 2+" doesn't apply, since even if you roll a 1, you add 3 to that result and get a 4, passing your FnP.

Granted, all of that requires basically the stars aligning, so don't expect to consistently see it (and if you do, check his dice) But even without it, Smash-fether still has a hefty 3+ FnP reliably. This is after a possible 2+ armor save and a 3++ from the Gorgon's Chains, and Eternal Warrior.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The current rules say that if you have no FnP, Iron Hands non-vehicles get a 6+ FnP. If they do have FnP from another source, they add +1 to the Dice Result (this is important).

The +1 to the Dice Result is basically applied for all Iron Hands related FnP wargears (other than the Narthecarium), which is why Smash-fether is so terrifying because it's possible to get him a 1+ Feel No Pain (see as follows):

Find a librarian with Endurance and cast it on him granting him a 4+ FnP.

Roll on the Clan Raaukan Warlords trait table and pray for Flesh is Weak (which grants +1 to your FnP)

Grab the Gorgon's Chains (which has another +1 FnP)

and finally the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics grant the final +1 FnP.

If you've been keeping score, that's a grand total of +3 FnP. However, note that due to the way it's written, you add 3 to your dice result, not reduce the number you need by 3. This means the usual rule of "A roll can't be improved past a 2+" doesn't apply, since even if you roll a 1, you add 3 to that result and get a 4, passing your FnP.

Granted, all of that requires basically the stars aligning, so don't expect to consistently see it (and if you do, check his dice) But even without it, Smash-fether still has a hefty 3+ FnP reliably. This is after a possible 2+ armor save and a 3++ from the Gorgon's Chains, and Eternal Warrior.

More importantly, the highlighted does not exist as a rule, except for certain situations (such as saves). Therefore, whether you add +3 to the dice roll, or reduce the result needed by 3, you still end up with a 1+ FNP.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The current rules say that if you have no FnP, Iron Hands non-vehicles get a 6+ FnP. If they do have FnP from another source, they add +1 to the Dice Result (this is important).

The +1 to the Dice Result is basically applied for all Iron Hands related FnP wargears (other than the Narthecarium), which is why Smash-fether is so terrifying because it's possible to get him a 1+ Feel No Pain (see as follows):

Find a librarian with Endurance and cast it on him granting him a 4+ FnP.

Roll on the Clan Raaukan Warlords trait table and pray for Flesh is Weak (which grants +1 to your FnP)

Grab the Gorgon's Chains (which has another +1 FnP)

and finally the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics grant the final +1 FnP.

If you've been keeping score, that's a grand total of +3 FnP. However, note that due to the way it's written, you add 3 to your dice result, not reduce the number you need by 3. This means the usual rule of "A roll can't be improved past a 2+" doesn't apply, since even if you roll a 1, you add 3 to that result and get a 4, passing your FnP.

Granted, all of that requires basically the stars aligning, so don't expect to consistently see it (and if you do, check his dice) But even without it, Smash-fether still has a hefty 3+ FnP reliably. This is after a possible 2+ armor save and a 3++ from the Gorgon's Chains, and Eternal Warrior.

An important detail is that the wording of whether it improve the fnp or improves the die roll is irrelevant. Much like skills in DnD 3rd edition, Fnp has no rule stating that 1's auto-fail or that it can't be improved past a certain point. Only hits, wounds, and saves auto-fail on 1's.

Ninja'd. :(

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The current rules say that if you have no FnP, Iron Hands non-vehicles get a 6+ FnP. If they do have FnP from another source, they add +1 to the Dice Result (this is important).

The +1 to the Dice Result is basically applied for all Iron Hands related FnP wargears (other than the Narthecarium), which is why Smash-fether is so terrifying because it's possible to get him a 1+ Feel No Pain (see as follows):

Find a librarian with Endurance and cast it on him granting him a 4+ FnP.

Roll on the Clan Raaukan Warlords trait table and pray for Flesh is Weak (which grants +1 to your FnP)

Grab the Gorgon's Chains (which has another +1 FnP)

and finally the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics grant the final +1 FnP.

If you've been keeping score, that's a grand total of +3 FnP. However, note that due to the way it's written, you add 3 to your dice result, not reduce the number you need by 3. This means the usual rule of "A roll can't be improved past a 2+" doesn't apply, since even if you roll a 1, you add 3 to that result and get a 4, passing your FnP.

Granted, all of that requires basically the stars aligning, so don't expect to consistently see it (and if you do, check his dice) But even without it, Smash-fether still has a hefty 3+ FnP reliably. This is after a possible 2+ armor save and a 3++ from the Gorgon's Chains, and Eternal Warrior.

STOMP!

 Happyjew wrote:

More importantly, the highlighted does not exist as a rule, except for certain situations (such as saves). Therefore, whether you add +3 to the dice roll, or reduce the result needed by 3, you still end up with a 1+ FNP.

It's actually written on an as-need basis, as it applies to To Hit rolls made in the shooting phase, To wound rolls (in any phase) and the reverse is true for characteristic tests and Leadership tests (a roll of a 6 or 12 is always a fail). There's no blanket rule, but generally it applies, which is why this situation is a bit jarring for people unless you specifically point it out.

Note that the ITC and several other major tournaments has explicitly ruled against a one plus fnp save and I would wager that you would struggle to find a game if you wanted to play like that.

The odds of a 1+ FnP is 1 in 36 I believe, so it's not exactly common or reliable. The thing is a 3+ FnP is nothing to laugh at either, since again he has a 2+/3++ before that and IWND in case that somehow he does fail it.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Note that the ITC and several other major tournaments has explicitly ruled against a one plus fnp save and I would wager that you would struggle to find a game if you wanted to play like that.

The thing is, he doesn't have a 1+ FNP, he has a 4+ FNP but gets bonuses to his roll so that ruling would need to be very carefully written to deny it.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Note that the ITC and several other major tournaments has explicitly ruled against a one plus fnp save and I would wager that you would struggle to find a game if you wanted to play like that.

The thing is, he doesn't have a 1+ FNP, he has a 4+ FNP but gets bonuses to his roll so that ruling would need to be very carefully written to deny it.

Yeah. Nobody at a tournament will be impressed by that argument. The meaning and intent is VERY obvious and you won't be allowed to use a 1+ FnP.

ITC FAQ wrote:A model’s Feel No Pain roll can never be improved beyond 2+.