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Ok, so I've played Deathwing since 4th edition and it's been an adjustment period with the new codex. Obviously without scoring terminators, forcing pure Deathwing lists to be unbound (barring formation and detachment use) or spend at least 150 pts on throw away troops to be battle-forged, I've changed my approach. Since I've played Deathwing since 4th edition and I don't know another Deathwing player and likely won't anytime soon since GW decided to nerfbat a third tier army, I figured I'd share my thoughts on the codex to see what other Deathwing players do/think. Let me know what you think. I'm always gonna play Deathwing so I'm determined to make it work.
Codex Overview/ Rating: C-
Spoiler:
Greenwing got a lot better and don't have to be an afterthought now, but Ravenwing and Deathwing are unbound now without formations and detachments. Ravenwing stuff got cheaper and better and Deathwing stuff got more expensive and worse. Honestly, Greenwing got some of their own unique benefits while being brought up to par with regular marines, but little originality is seen in their forces. Basically this feels like a Ravenwing codex with an obligatory overhaul to greenwing that just so happens to have Deathwing. As I'll explain further, Gw nerfed the piss out of Deathwing and they feel like an afterthought. However I won't focus on the negatives, I'll just point them out. I'll focus on what seems good and what's worked for me.
Belial/ Rating: B+
Spoiler:
Clearly losing the ability to make terminators troops was a huge hit, but we've seen GW move away from HQs unlocking selections as troops, which would be ok if that didn't make pure Deathwing instantly unbound or force you to take formations/detachments. Even in the formations/detachments for Deathwing, it doesn't require Belial for your HQ, so you don't ever need to take Belial, but I still do. He has 4 attacks now, and of course the sword of silence is ap3 and fleshbane, which is actually pretty good. Belial is good at killing things like carnifexes, and equivalents with ease and I've had success against wraithknights. Re-rolling all hits in the challenge makes the thunder hammer storm shield option worth taking since in many cases it can nearly guarantee some hits on their leaders that are double their toughness. Unfortunately the lightning claw variant has fallen behind. I've had success with it in the Deathwing banner unit and within 6" of Ezekiel, making for 8 attack on the charge and re-rolls everything in challenges, but I just want my commander to be able to hurt high toughness models easier. If you can compensate it in your list, 8 re-rolling everything lightning claw attacks is pretty awesome. His ability to not scatter on the deepstrike is still good, but since you can only get in on turn two guaranteed if you take the formation or detachment, you could be sitting in reserve for a while, so it generally falls by the wayside for me. The warlord trait is pretty useless as precision shots and ignores cover on a storm bolter is really pretty irrelevant, not to mention worthless if you don't take the sword of silence storm bolter loadout. Finally, the one generally overlooked piece of equipment he has is his teleport homer. I've had success with this in my walking Deathwing by just deploying him and then deepstriking squads right on top of him in my deployment zone for the twin-linked shots. It's not bad or great, but it is very sneaky if your opponent isn't thinking about it.
Interrogator-Chaplain/ Rating: A-
Spoiler:
A lot of people like to run this guy with the MoR and just run him as a beatstick in the most relevant squad in the army. He certainly hits hard and re-rolls make the MoR better. Also a 3 wound model with a 4+ invulnerable save that can tank at least two wounds for the squad to preserve staying power is never bad either. The fact that he wants to get close to guys with the mace makes a combi-melta at 5 pts. a worthwhile consideration as he shoots at BS5 and combi-weapons from characters are the only way Deathwing have access to melta. It's not a necessity, but it's nice.
Asmodai/ Rating: D-
Spoiler:
+1 WS from Interrogator chaplains is ok since he wants to fight warlords, but it's a little underwhelming. With no other stats differential, an entirely terrible warlord trait, and no ability to take terminator armor also makes his inclusion over a stock interrogator-chaplain even harder to justify. Granted, if you kill their warlord with Asmodai, you get 1+d3 victory points, but with only a crozius and his blades of reason that have no ap (but instant death), most warlords will be hard to kill unless you deliver him from a land raider since he can't fit in a drop pod with a squad should you take one and he of course can't deepstrike. I like his flavor, but I would really never play him.
Librarian/ Rating: B
Spoiler:
A cheap level 2 librarian with a combi-melta is nice psychic defense and provides potential prescience rolls or another heavy flamer and other nice options from pyromancy and such if you go up against orks/guard/eldar, etc. A versatile choice that is cheap is only hurt by no ability to take a storm shield like every other character can, and in Deathwing with generally only one psyker, you may struggle to cast things if you face certain armies. This guy pretty much always has a slot in my army and comparing Deathwing psychic proficiency to that of other, better armies, isn't much of a detriment to his rating since his is niche psychic powers/defense as opposed to an actual force in the army.
Ezekiel/ Rating: C+
Spoiler:
Ezekiel is pretty niche, but can find use. His warlord trait is entirely useless as all the Deathwing have fearless anyway. The 2+ save is nice and complimentary to the army, but no terminator armor means he's in a Land Raider or walking, which isn't that bad if used the right way. Psyker level 3 is nice for more powers and dice, and likely better psychic defense, but the same issue arises that with likely only one psyker, it will do fine against armies without any and get shut down by armies that actually focus on it. The real reason I play him is the ability to take the psychic powers and give good psychic defense, but mostly for the +1 attack for all friendly models within 6". As previously stated, in/near a unit with the Deathwing banner, and potentially on the charge, the amount of dice that can be thrown are really impressive. I play him enough, but find myself not playing him when I want more survivability and run into armies that can shut him down.
Company Master/ Rating: A-
Spoiler:
Previously the company masters were pretty useless in Deathwing since Belial was obligatory and it was either a chaplain or librarian as your second hq. Since Belial isn't a necessity now and Librarians are a little more preferential, this guy can find a pretty useful role. You can make him a tank killer with feel no pain that can tank the crap outta some wounds to preserve staying power. For example, here's a tank killing, *ehem* tank of a master that is ten points cheaper than a MoR Interrogator Chaplain with a combi-melta.
Company Master: Terminator armor, Chain fist and storm shield, combi-melta. Shroud of Heroes. @165 pts. For 165 pts. he gets a 2+/3++/5+++ a Bs5 potentially twin-linked melta shot and bolter shots for synergy with Deathwing squads, and a ws6 chainfist as well as 10 pt. FnP with shrouded if you lone wolf him/or he outlasts the squad. He can hit like a rock and is incredibly survivable so as to help protect a squad. I really like these guys now and have been playing them more frequently in my lists now.
Dreadnoughts/Venerable Dreadnoughts/ Rating: C
Spoiler:
While dreadnoughts got an increase in attacks and can be in squadrons now, they are pretty much only taken in Deathwing lists as venerable variants with anti-tank long range weaponry so as to leverage BS5 and lack of anti-tank in Deathwing. Taking two is the minimum really if you take any at all, and that's at least the points of a Land Raider (which could potentially shoot just as well) or another group of terminators. I pull them out every once in a while, but in an army strapped for production, they generally don't have enough shots to matter and venerable just doesn't mean as much any more since hull points just get around it.
Actual base Terminator squads are almost pointless now. Unless you want to take more than 5 guys in a squad or are taking the Deathwing Redemption Force, they are inherently inferior to Deathwing Command Squads. They have to take the power sword sergeant (which many people dislike) and the Command Squad doesn't, but can if they want. Both squads can take the same weapon combinations and options, so that is a wash. They can both take a perfidious relic and any variant of Land Raider, so that too is equal. The command squads can take a banner for an extra attack (sacred standard is so useless on terminators), and apothecary to give FnP for 5 pts., and a Deathwing Champion for 5 pts. which is one of only a handful of space marine models throughout any of the different marine codices that strikes with AP2 and at base initiative; as well as being strength 6 and WS5. So basically unless you want more guys than 5 or want to take the formation, there is literally no reason to ever run normal terminators as the Command Squad is just so much better. The fact that regular terminators aren't troops basically buries them.
Deathwing Knights/ Rating: B-
Spoiler:
Deathwing Knights got better and got nerfed, but the nerfs are just really pretty cruel to a unit that made it's initial appearance only one codex ago. Their weapons have AP3 now instead of 4, and the Knight Master has 3 attacks base now as well as fleshbane, so they don't get stuck with marines now, which is nice, but having to be in contact with two other models still to get the toughness 5 (which is part of the reason you buy them), means unless you add squad members, you can only lose two guys before the special rule will start to disappear. The biggest hit shows up in only ever being able to make 1 S10 AP2 attack as opposed to being able to nuke a unit once. Yes you can do the 1 attack as many times as you want, but with only 4 attacks since the Knight Master doesn't get smite, the results can be pretty disappointing. However still having precision strikes means you could potentially whack a character, but even at S6 AP3, against MEQs, precision strikes can get rid of power fists or apothecaries and such. It's not bad, I've just felt that the one turn of awesomeness was better, but in a way I understand the hit. I still play a squad of these guys in all my lists, so they are still proficient, even if they only draw lots of shots.
Land Raider/Land Raider Crusader/Land Raider Redeemer/ Rating: Variant
Spoiler:
Generally the two most common Deathwing builds are mass terminators or Land Raider builds. Depending on how you use Land Raiders, they can help with anti-vehicle shots such as a Godhammer with a multi-melta or anti-infantry from the Crusader and Redeemer. Protection for terminators is always nice, but each one you take is basically 5 less terminators your list can have, so it's very much a YMMV entry and depends highly on your meta, and potentially preference. While Deathwing deepstriking for twin-linked and sitting in a transport basically guarantee that one or the other is going to wasted, the ability to have a delivery vehicle if not a dependable one and make up for inherent deficiencies of the Deathwing is arguably worth the tradeoff of models. Since the effectiveness is based highly off your local shops meta and playstyle, I can't concretely rate them, but they are definitely a solid selection in a Deathwing (arguably more so than other marine armies) list. They lost the ability to become venerable, which honestly doesn't make sense because it really wasn't that good and kinda added a little flavor. Seeing as how venerable isn't that great anyway, this isn't a huge loss.
Azrael/ Rating: A+
Spoiler:
Full discretion, I hated this guy when I looked at the book. Then I realized that he is actually really solid/if not, as aforementioned, a niche type character. The fact that he doesn't have relentless with his master-crafted combi-plasma kinda sucks, but it's not a huge deal, you'll still get to shoot it in one way or another. 4 wounds, 4 attacks, and S6 AP3 in combat with master-crafted is pretty awesome, although no AP2 on the Supreme Grand Master of the First Legion is a little shrugworthy. Honestly, Azrael is only an inclusion for me if Belial isn't in the list. They are both high cost heavy hitters and you really only need one, not both. Since Belial isn't a necessity now, it's definitely something to consider. 4 wounds, natural FnP, a 2+ save and a 4+ invuln for him and his unit, as well as a vehicle he is embarked in, he is pretty hard to get rid of.+1 to Seize the initiative is always nice especially if you have Land Raiders in the army (which you should with Azrael imo). Rites of Battle is something you could overlook, but I've found against things like psychic scream and other equivalent powers, the extra leadership point helps save more guys since it generally ignores armor. The ability to choose a Dark Angel Warlord trait is also really good actually, since you can choose to add 1 or subtract one from your reserve rolls if you know you want to deepstrike so you can virtually guarantee turn two arrival without the need for formations/detachments, or increase your odds to delay a squad if you want a full strength objective grabber late game. The ability to add 3" to your charge range is also very good since despite it being unlikely to fail in many cases jumping out of a Land Raider, if you do, it could lose you the game. Also don't underestimate the fact that this effectively ignores charging through terrain while still giving you some inches. Effectively there is no way you can ever get less than a 5" charge, and on average gives you a 10" charge which makes longbombing charges much more viable. While Azrael already has FnP, giving it to his squad if they are within 3" of an objective is huge since staying power is massive for elite armies like Deathwing. I also enjoy giving the unit furious charge, and if you run him with Ezekiel and in a banner squad, you can get boatloads of strength 9 ap2 attacks and a disgusting amount of s5 ap3 lightning claw/power sword attacks, all of which could get re-rolls if Ezekiel drops prescience on the unit. Giving a fearless bubble and having him get precision shots and ignores cover aren't really worth it, but certain circumstances could see them used. There are very relevant and meaningful warlord traits to pick and all could be huge in the game. And obviously, with him giving a 4+ invulnerable to your squad, and if played right, FnP, it means you don't necessarily have to pay for storm shields in the unit he goes with since the survivability balances out which lets you put points elsewhere which is always useful in a Deathwing army. I didn't like him initially since I didn't like the fact he lost the ability to give Deathwing troops as well, but after I actually looked at him, he is pretty sensational in the army.
Deathwing Redemption Force/ Rating: F
Spoiler:
The rating of an F deserves an explanation, but I've touched on it throughout my review. First, it makes you take regular terminators, which as I've stated are almost strictly worse than command squads. Their only benefit, taking more than 5 guys, is totally bad here since the formation makes you start in reserves which just means more points not on the board. The formation also only lets you take up to 1 command squad, and that as explained above is obviously bad. A 1 unit cap of knights isn't a big deal, but the fact you can only take 1 venerable dreadnought is pretty lame and the fact you have to take a drop pod and you don't even get to leverage drop pod special rules in terms of when they arrive makes it pointless imo to include one if you take this steaming mess of a formation. Shooting and then running or running and then shooting is decent, but certainly not worth taking the formation for since the deepstrike is kind of a thing of the past now in terms of reliability and tactics. The ability to choose to bring in the entire formation on turn 2, 3, or 4 would make-up for the loss of turn 1 deepstrike if you didn't HAVE to place them in deep strike reserves. You'd be able to decide to alpha strike or go for late turn objective fights with potentially only a single turn for your opponent to kill your terminators on an objective, but the lack of choosing is primarily what gives this formation the F rating. Even if I take the minimum 1 HQ and 2 terminator groups, that's at least, on average, 630 pts. sitting in reserves every game until at least turn 2 and with a lack of hitting power in Deathwing, missing at least a third of your army for potentially two or more of your opponents' game turns is almost a guaranteed loss. This formation could be good in apocalypse where you could fill It up and bring it all in somewhere tactically in the middle of the game, but unless you guys have some insight that I'm missing, this formation has no business in regular games. The disappearance of turn 1 deepstrike sucks and a pretty meh special rule, the only special rule for the formation, (PECSM) this formation keeps making me turn the pages looking for its other rules as it only seems to hurt your army.
Deathwing Strike Force/ Rating: B
Spoiler:
While this detachment has the same crippling disadvantage as the Deathwing Redemption Force (having to start in reserves), this one is at least playable to a degree, and more so in Apocalypse. This is pretty much not even a Deathwing detachment and more a combined wing detachment. The ability to pass or fail any reserve roll for the group if you have a ravenwing unit is great since you can just straight up pick when you want them during the game and you don't have to decide before the game. The continuation of running and shooting or shooting and running is useful, and the ability to re-roll your warlord trait is also relevant since you only have to take 1 HQ and it can be a generic character. This is playable in dual wing as Ravenwing are super survivable now and can easily last until turn 2, 3, or 4 allowing you to pick whenever you want them in. Likely turbo boosting and surviving and shooting by leveraging the Ravenwing Strike Force is the way to do it and then bring in the terminators turn 2 and come in off the teleport homers off the bikes. I could easily see this detachment have a home in the right ravenwing list, and the ability to have 3 HQs, and 13 terminator units come in automatically on turn 2 in apocalypse is pretty nice as well. This is a great example of dual wing being effective in tandem.
Conclusion
Spoiler:
While Gw nerfed a 3rd tier army hard and really hurt the flavor of the army, it's nowhere near terrible. We have loads of awesome HQs who could all fit in any Deathwing list, we can brag about not having to take that power sword sergeant that never seems to wound anybody ( ), even if nobody cares. We can successfully balance Land Raiders with terminators and dual wing is now viable. We have T5 terminators that can hit at S10 AP2 every turn, and can snipe characters. We can also, and maybe most importantly, leverage the weakness of Deathwing as it's biggest strength. We can win lots of games by putting so many terminators on the field, because since that is their weakness, people don't generally build their lists to beat that many terminators kitted up with 3+ invulns and feel no pain. Most importantly, you get to be lazy and only push a few models around and painting is super easy! No really though, everybody just likes to say their entire army is terminators and everybody loves rolling 2+ saves one at a time and pissing your opponent off! Deathwing got hit hard, but they are still something to fear on the table.
This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2016/01/14 18:46:25
Just looking at it, I wouldn't ever say a Company Master is better than Belial. Belial can take a TH/SS (as you really only need Armorbane against AV14, and quite frankly there should be enough hits from Deathwing/Knights to handle it), or can carry a Fleshbane sword, which is stupidly excellent. I agree with the assessments otherwise, though think you're too positive.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Just looking at it, I wouldn't ever say a Company Master is better than Belial. Belial can take a TH/SS (as you really only need Armorbane against AV14, and quite frankly there should be enough hits from Deathwing/Knights to handle it), or can carry a Fleshbane sword, which is stupidly excellent. I agree with the assessments otherwise, though think you're too positive.
And I don't think he's better either. Belial, as I stated is still awesome since he is so good, but since you can save 25 pts and add durability, it's a useful hq to run as support. If anything I thought I was pretty harsh but thanks for the input!
This is really neat. Thanks for this op. And you are right. If you spam as many termies as possible usually the opponent wouldnt expect it.. Even with abundant ap2.. Need to look closer at command squads fnp with 2+ is sick
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The same durability can be applied to Interrogator Chaplains though, which are basically Company Masters Except Better.
honestly the invuln is worse and since the mace is basically a must he can't take the shroud for the FnP. It's truly a preference matter as you can see they are equally rated.
ImRightBehindYou wrote: Most importantly, you get to be lazy and only push a few models around and painting is super easy!
Actually I find Terminators to be kind of a PITA to paint, although Deathwing look amazing when done right!
To me, the best way to field Deathwing is together with Ravenwing. Ravenwing are very mobile and with that rerollable jink save they are pretty tough to take down as well, meaning you can safely drop your terminators almost anywhere on the board. I've had some success with this type of list.
I have also thought of the idea of taking a 5-man unit of Deathwing Knights, give them a Land Raider Crusader, put Ezekiel, Belial, and an Interrogator in the unit, and absolutely destroy anything, including things like Wraithknights and Stormsurges, that is stupid enough to be in threat range. Of course, that combo of units is going to be over half your army in most tournaments and need two CADs to work, so probably not a good idea, but could be absolutely mean in casual games.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
ImRightBehindYou wrote: Most importantly, you get to be lazy and only push a few models around and painting is super easy!
Actually I find Terminators to be kind of a PITA to paint, although Deathwing look amazing when done right!
To me, the best way to field Deathwing is together with Ravenwing. Ravenwing are very mobile and with that rerollable jink save they are pretty tough to take down as well, meaning you can safely drop your terminators almost anywhere on the board. I've had some success with this type of list.
I have also thought of the idea of taking a 5-man unit of Deathwing Knights, give them a Land Raider Crusader, put Ezekiel, Belial, and an Interrogator in the unit, and absolutely destroy anything, including things like Wraithknights and Stormsurges, that is stupid enough to be in threat range. Of course, that combo of units is going to be over half your army in most tournaments and need two CADs to work, so probably not a good idea, but could be absolutely mean in casual games.
Yea Ravenwing are nice but again, turn 2 is the best you'll ever come in, and that's a big hit for a small army. Have you had this issue?
ImRightBehindYou wrote: Most importantly, you get to be lazy and only push a few models around and painting is super easy!
Actually I find Terminators to be kind of a PITA to paint, although Deathwing look amazing when done right!
To me, the best way to field Deathwing is together with Ravenwing. Ravenwing are very mobile and with that rerollable jink save they are pretty tough to take down as well, meaning you can safely drop your terminators almost anywhere on the board. I've had some success with this type of list.
I have also thought of the idea of taking a 5-man unit of Deathwing Knights, give them a Land Raider Crusader, put Ezekiel, Belial, and an Interrogator in the unit, and absolutely destroy anything, including things like Wraithknights and Stormsurges, that is stupid enough to be in threat range. Of course, that combo of units is going to be over half your army in most tournaments and need two CADs to work, so probably not a good idea, but could be absolutely mean in casual games.
Yea Ravenwing are nice but again, turn 2 is the best you'll ever come in, and that's a big hit for a small army. Have you had this issue?
Its not a problem really, although Tau nowadays can mess up Ravenwing by using their markerlights to deny their jinking saves. Dropping your Termies on turn 2 is actually good, because they aren't there to present targets on turn 1, and their weapons are twin-linked when they drop. With the shoot and run or run and shoot ability, they can drop, shoot something, then dash out of LOS or into cover if possible. It is still not the best, but most problems with Deathwing are problems with Terminators in general (like being overcosted and deceptively fragile).
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
Yea I basically covered that in my review of the detachment, but I'm not of fan having to keep 650 pts in reserves, but it can definitely be good if you leverage cover well.
ImRightBehindYou wrote: Yea I basically covered that in my review of the detachment, but I'm not of fan having to keep 650 pts in reserves, but it can definitely be good if you leverage cover well.
One thing I definitely recommend is if you do deep strike your Deathwing, leave your Deathwing knights at home, they are sitting ducks for a turn and most opponents will just run away from them if they can't kill them outright.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
Yes I've found this to be true especially against jsj armies. This is another reason Azrael gets an A+ from me since you can get reserves on turn two on a 2+ so you don't necessarily have to count on the Ravenwing for reliability, although they aren't bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/14 07:02:47
The issue with Azrael is that you'd need to find a squad to best hide him in.
Assault Centurions OR Devastator Centurions LOVE you for the 4++ and additional attacks. Azrael loves them for giving his Plasma a chance to be used (on maybe a different target!), AP2 attacks, and lots of ablative wounds on even a minimum squad.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The issue with Azrael is that you'd need to find a squad to best hide him in.
Assault Centurions OR Devastator Centurions LOVE you for the 4++ and additional attacks. Azrael loves them for giving his Plasma a chance to be used (on maybe a different target!), AP2 attacks, and lots of ablative wounds on even a minimum squad.
Well as I said he's good in a Raider as he gives that a 4+ invulnerable as well and walking Deathwing isn't that bad. Too the centurion point, from a competitive standpoint they are good with him as min squad in a drop pod, but Dark Angels allying with codex marines is a fluff point of objection. I know they are battle brothers but they are pretty secretive haha. Since this is a competitive thread though, it's definitely playable with grav centurions as it really protects them with a 4+ invulnerable save, potentially FnP, and at least 3 if not 4 2+/4++/5+++ wounds to get through first, while also providing much needed ap2 in Deathwing. This is definitely an interesting concept and I'll add it in his review. Thanks!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/01/14 06:48:42
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The issue with Azrael is that you'd need to find a squad to best hide him in.
Assault Centurions OR Devastator Centurions LOVE you for the 4++ and additional attacks. Azrael loves them for giving his Plasma a chance to be used (on maybe a different target!), AP2 attacks, and lots of ablative wounds on even a minimum squad.
Well as I said he's good in a Raider as he gives that a 4+ invulnerable as well and walking Deathwing isn't that bad. Too the centurion point, from a competitive standpoint they are good with him as min squad in a drop pod, but Dark Angels allying with codex marines is a fluff point of objection. I know they are battle brothers but they are pretty secretive haha. Since this is a competitive thread though, it's definitely playable with grav centurions as it really protects them with a 4+ invulnerable save, potentially FnP, and at least 3 if not 4 2+/4++/5+++ wounds to get through first, while also providing much needed ap2 in Deathwing. This is definitely an interesting concept and I'll add it in his review. Thanks!
Remember that a Spartan can be allied in as well, and THAT is going to benefit immensely from the 4++ once you buy the immunity to Melta. SO then you just take whatever other HQ's you want. It gets pretty expensive at that point though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Awesome tactica, thank you for putting in so much work on it. I have not bought azrael, but looking at this id like to give him a try for sure, im just so used to doing belial.
Exalbaru wrote: Awesome tactica, thank you for putting in so much work on it. I have not bought azrael, but looking at this id like to give him a try for sure, im just so used to doing belial.
Yea, thanks for dropping by! And I get it, writing Belial in your list is almost muscle memory, but he is still awesome with all his re-roll abilities and ap3 fleshbane. He really helps slay monsters and such and the teleport homer is nice as well. I still play Belial in pretty much all my lists, and even though I didn't prefer it, running him with Azrael isn't the worst thing in the world either.
It's a shame what the current DA 'dex did to pure DW players. I have a large Deathwing force that I started this time last year, and the whole project came to a screeching halt when they blessed us with the last update
OT tho, if you find yourself running a multiple Land raider list, the SM Land Raider Spearhead formation is an interesting possibility. It's actually better than the old Deathwing Vehicle upgrade in that it ignores ALL damage effects other than Explodes! results, and it gives you a buff when shooting GMCs and SHVs.
I guess it could find mileage against Stormsurges and the like, and since you are unbound anyway, it's not bad. I don't have the marine codex on hand, but iirc they are a squadron so transporting guys becomes slightly restrictive. Correct me if I'm wrong. Besides man, it's Deathwing, you gotta stick with it through the thick and the thin, mostly the thin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/15 00:21:39
ImRightBehindYou wrote: I guess it could find mileage against Stormsurges and the like, and since you are unbound anyway, it's not bad. I don't have the marine codex on hand, but iirc they are a squadron so transporting guys becomes slightly restrictive. Correct me if I'm wrong. Besides man, it's Deathwing, you gotta stick with it through the thick and the thin, mostly the thin.
The LRs are not squadroned, so you're free to separate them. However, they only receive the formation benefits if within 6" of another LR from the formation.
Ahh, so that would be a potential route, although I'm generally not a fan of triple Land Raider lists, but it's certainly worth at least a game of testing. Cheers!
One idea would be to take a Nemesis strike force with Belial. You can put him in a 10 man Terminator squad (two Hammers and two Psycannons) with a Librarian with Domina Liber, and Combat Squad them after they hit the field, which ends up being PERFECT thanks to Belial. You squad them so that two Psycannons are in one squad and two Hammers are in the other.
All you need is reserve manipulation to make sure it actually goes to plan.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: One idea would be to take a Nemesis strike force with Belial. You can put him in a 10 man Terminator squad (two Hammers and two Psycannons) with a Librarian with Domina Liber, and Combat Squad them after they hit the field, which ends up being PERFECT thanks to Belial. You squad them so that two Psycannons are in one squad and two Hammers are in the other.
All you need is reserve manipulation to make sure it actually goes to plan.
I'm not sure you can combat squad them after the drop. I think you have to do it before, and then they are treated as two units for the rest of the game. They drop separately. Of course, maybe Grey Knight combat squads work different or something.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: One idea would be to take a Nemesis strike force with Belial. You can put him in a 10 man Terminator squad (two Hammers and two Psycannons) with a Librarian with Domina Liber, and Combat Squad them after they hit the field, which ends up being PERFECT thanks to Belial. You squad them so that two Psycannons are in one squad and two Hammers are in the other.
All you need is reserve manipulation to make sure it actually goes to plan.
I'm not sure you can combat squad them after the drop. I think you have to do it before, and then they are treated as two units for the rest of the game. They drop separately. Of course, maybe Grey Knight combat squads work different or something.
Plausibly. Combat Squad is such a gimmicky rule as a whole that I don't have it memorized. Same logic will still apply.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: One idea would be to take a Nemesis strike force with Belial. You can put him in a 10 man Terminator squad (two Hammers and two Psycannons) with a Librarian with Domina Liber, and Combat Squad them after they hit the field, which ends up being PERFECT thanks to Belial. You squad them so that two Psycannons are in one squad and two Hammers are in the other.
All you need is reserve manipulation to make sure it actually goes to plan.
Not to be rude, but this is a pretty terrible idea for me personally. The Dark Angels of all chapters would never work with inquisition/grey knights if they could avoid it and regularly tell them to shove off. Competitively it's ok, but the combat squads are done before you deepstrike.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/15 10:48:50
Logic still applies. Psycannons have good range when it comes to Deep Strike. So focusing on shooting for one squad whilst Belial with a SS potentially gets a 2++ in the other.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Logic still applies. Psycannons have good range when it comes to Deep Strike. So focusing on shooting for one squad whilst Belial with a SS potentially gets a 2++ in the other.
I suppose that could work, it seems solid if you got the powers you want, but I'd rather attach the libby to belial's unit with fnp and have the 2++ with fnp.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/16 02:51:19
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Logic still applies. Psycannons have good range when it comes to Deep Strike. So focusing on shooting for one squad whilst Belial with a SS potentially gets a 2++ in the other.
I suppose that could work, it seems solid if you got the powers you want, but I'd rather attach the libby to belial's unit with fnp and have the 2++ with fnp.
Force Weapons end up being MUCH more important, and you still get to roll for reserves T1, which is something a Deathwing player is going to want!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the Librarian would get 4 rolls on the table. Your odds are VERY good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/16 06:43:32
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Honestly, Azrael is only an inclusion for me if Belial isn't in the list. They are both high cost heavy hitters and you really only need one, not both. Since Belial isn't a necessity now, it's definitely something to consider. 4 wounds, natural 
), even if nobody cares. 
We can successfully balance Land Raiders with terminators and dual wing is now viable. We have T5 terminators that can hit at S10 AP2 every turn, and can snipe characters. We can also, and maybe most importantly, leverage the weakness of Deathwing as it's biggest strength. We can win lots of games by putting so many terminators on the field, because since that is their weakness, people don't generally build their lists to beat that many terminators kitted up with 3+ invulns and feel no pain. Most importantly, you get to be lazy and only push a few models around and painting is super easy! 
No really though, everybody just likes to say their entire army is terminators and everybody loves rolling 2+ saves one at a time and pissing your opponent off! 
Deathwing got hit hard, but they are still something to fear on the table.
1850! 
For the Emperor! 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~700
