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So, I was just curious, Tau units dosent get any free sergeant type dudes and either go without, Or pay extra to upgrade a model to a sergeant. My question to Tau players are, Do you normaly buy the upgrade? I'v actualy never done it myself..

I do, but I'm new to Tau anyway.
I do it for fluff reasons. Its probably not viable to do it for comp. lists.

Generally, they don't. It can make sence in expensive squads like 3 broadsides or a large crysis team. Simply for +1 Ld. Crysis sarges can even be fine in melee with this upgrade vs non-melee stuff. And they are better than SM sarges, so, can challenge and hope for the best.

Well, gone are the days where every sarge packs a power weapon, so you might actually win said challenge.


Butt generally speaking-I don't take any sarges any more.

My squads are small, either the squad didn't need to roll LD, or it got reduced to irrelevance anyway. pending 10 points for a 11%-14% (depends on unit base LD) to save the remainder of the unit from running off is simply wasteful, especially given that they might come back on their own anyway.

Tau sergeants never had power weapons.. They where always same equipment as the others in the unit but with +1 Leadership and +1 Attack.

I don't ever take one in troops, I will for crisis suits sometimes.

No. Never worth the cost.

Except maybe if you run breacher FW teams. I think you need the Shas'ui to get the Guardian Drone - giving the squad a 5++ save.

I do if I want to get an upgrade from it or need slightly better leadership. I do it very rarely.

Never. I doubt I ever will unless they make it worth its cost too.

Merellin wrote:
Tau sergeants never had power weapons.. They where always same equipment as the others in the unit but with +1 Leadership and +1 Attack.

Other people had them, making your crisis sarges useless in CC anyhow, nowdays most sarges even in marine armies don't bother with power weapons-and a crisis sarge can beat a marine sarge in CC.
Still not a GOOD thing, but its less bad, as koooaei refered to challenging CM sarges.

everyone is focusing on the leadership buff. take BKR for cheaper if you need Ld buffs. What the 'sarge' upgrade does for tau is to unlock more options for the squads.

Want a signature system in a crisis squad without a commander? Shas'vre. I've been mulling over breaking up a buffmander and spreading its buffs across my suit squads when running Hunter Contingents - when combining fire I can still spread its abilities around anyway.

Want drones with your troops? or a markerlight? you must take a Shas'ui.

the only real 'tax' AFAIK, are the bodyguards that you must take in some formations. But then, a suicide bodyguard with dual fusions and either a Repulsor Impact Field, Failsafe Detonator, or Onager Gauntlet.

Crisis Bodyguards are Crisis Suits that are more or less Ogryns in close combat, making them Tau's pretty much only effective (as effective as Ogryns anyway) potential close combat unit. I don't think I would see them as a tax.

 carldooley wrote:
everyone is focusing on the leadership buff. take BKR for cheaper if you need Ld buffs. What the 'sarge' upgrade does for tau is to unlock more options for the squads.

Want a signature system in a crisis squad without a commander? Shas'vre. I've been mulling over breaking up a buffmander and spreading its buffs across my suit squads when running Hunter Contingents - when combining fire I can still spread its abilities around anyway.

Want drones with your troops? or a markerlight? you must take a Shas'ui.

the only real 'tax' AFAIK, are the bodyguards that you must take in some formations. But then, a suicide bodyguard with dual fusions and either a Repulsor Impact Field, Failsafe Detonator, or Onager Gauntlet.

BKR doesn't give any moral advantage, just allows you to attempt a normal regroup when below 25%
As many units never technically GET below 25% (suits, the rule of 3.) and even when you do attempt, you need to pass anyhow. the BKR is a serious waste of points. had it given +1 WS or something, so we are slightly less incompetant in CC, I'd dig it as a funny pick, but as a pure LD tool, its not actually doing anything. its even worse than a shas'ui to begin with.

Signature system without a commander-other than a "farisght bomb" type, when will I ever care about a signature in a squad? they are very much all-or-nothing, and not worth the sarge tax unless you deck out a raven suit, at that point upgrading to full commander for the ability to change teams is probably worth it anyway.

Want drones with my squad? why would I? when is ever a dorne a fitting addition to an infantry squad? markerlight, again I ask why. thats 20 point investment to a markerlight that isn't even in the right place, you almost get two pathfinders in that price.

RIF and FSD are both jokes, not even worth considering the points for, and the OG is so rarely useful that its more of a joke pick for laughing the one time it actually works. none of these are a serious consideration on why anything is a good pick.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
everyone is focusing on the leadership buff. take BKR for cheaper if you need Ld buffs. What the 'sarge' upgrade does for tau is to unlock more options for the squads.

Want a signature system in a crisis squad without a commander? Shas'vre. I've been mulling over breaking up a buffmander and spreading its buffs across my suit squads when running Hunter Contingents - when combining fire I can still spread its abilities around anyway.

Want drones with your troops? or a markerlight? you must take a Shas'ui.

the only real 'tax' AFAIK, are the bodyguards that you must take in some formations. But then, a suicide bodyguard with dual fusions and either a Repulsor Impact Field, Failsafe Detonator, or Onager Gauntlet.

BKR doesn't give any moral advantage, just allows you to attempt a normal regroup when below 25%
As many units never technically GET below 25% (suits, the rule of 3.) and even when you do attempt, you need to pass anyhow. the BKR is a serious waste of points. had it given +1 WS or something, so we are slightly less incompetant in CC, I'd dig it as a funny pick, but as a pure LD tool, its not actually doing anything. its even worse than a shas'ui to begin with.

Signature system without a commander-other than a "farisght bomb" type, when will I ever care about a signature in a squad? they are very much all-or-nothing, and not worth the sarge tax unless you deck out a raven suit, at that point upgrading to full commander for the ability to change teams is probably worth it anyway.

Want drones with my squad? why would I? when is ever a dorne a fitting addition to an infantry squad? markerlight, again I ask why. thats 20 point investment to a markerlight that isn't even in the right place, you almost get two pathfinders in that price.

RIF and FSD are both jokes, not even worth considering the points for, and the OG is so rarely useful that its more of a joke pick for laughing the one time it actually works. none of these are a serious consideration on why anything is a good pick.

Drones on a breacher squad is handy. A guardian drones hands out a 5++ and a gun drone has pinning, possibly making it so that you can't be charged if you fail to kill whatever you are now within 5" of. Marker drones in a crisis squad with a drone controller isn't the worst use of 8 points and a hardpoint either as it spreads out your markerlight targets so people can't just pile everything onto your mark'o and pathfinders.

I've seen a Crisis shas'vre with the onager gauntlet and double fusion run riot in an IG parking lot, that was pretty lulzy.

Technically if you've got a shas'whatever, they can make LoS onto a shield drone for a bit of extra survivability.

It's certainly not a given, but they can have their moments.

I like to run a shas'vre with the buffmander equipment in a squad with missile suits with target locks alongside a commander with missiles, target lock, and drone controller, packed with marker drones.

It's a 10 point difference from running the same concept with a buffmander, and for that cost you get two of the missile attacks at bs5 and the chance you won't lose your warlord at the same time you lose your buffmander.

 Drasius wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
everyone is focusing on the leadership buff. take BKR for cheaper if you need Ld buffs. What the 'sarge' upgrade does for tau is to unlock more options for the squads.

Want a signature system in a crisis squad without a commander? Shas'vre. I've been mulling over breaking up a buffmander and spreading its buffs across my suit squads when running Hunter Contingents - when combining fire I can still spread its abilities around anyway.

Want drones with your troops? or a markerlight? you must take a Shas'ui.

the only real 'tax' AFAIK, are the bodyguards that you must take in some formations. But then, a suicide bodyguard with dual fusions and either a Repulsor Impact Field, Failsafe Detonator, or Onager Gauntlet.

BKR doesn't give any moral advantage, just allows you to attempt a normal regroup when below 25%
As many units never technically GET below 25% (suits, the rule of 3.) and even when you do attempt, you need to pass anyhow. the BKR is a serious waste of points. had it given +1 WS or something, so we are slightly less incompetant in CC, I'd dig it as a funny pick, but as a pure LD tool, its not actually doing anything. its even worse than a shas'ui to begin with.

Signature system without a commander-other than a "farisght bomb" type, when will I ever care about a signature in a squad? they are very much all-or-nothing, and not worth the sarge tax unless you deck out a raven suit, at that point upgrading to full commander for the ability to change teams is probably worth it anyway.

Want drones with my squad? why would I? when is ever a dorne a fitting addition to an infantry squad? markerlight, again I ask why. thats 20 point investment to a markerlight that isn't even in the right place, you almost get two pathfinders in that price.

RIF and FSD are both jokes, not even worth considering the points for, and the OG is so rarely useful that its more of a joke pick for laughing the one time it actually works. none of these are a serious consideration on why anything is a good pick.

Drones on a breacher squad is handy. A guardian drones hands out a 5++ and a gun drone has pinning, possibly making it so that you can't be charged if you fail to kill whatever you are now within 5" of. Marker drones in a crisis squad with a drone controller isn't the worst use of 8 points and a hardpoint either as it spreads out your markerlight targets so people can't just pile everything onto your mark'o and pathfinders.

I've seen a Crisis shas'vre with the onager gauntlet and double fusion run riot in an IG parking lot, that was pretty lulzy.

Technically if you've got a shas'whatever, they can make LoS onto a shield drone for a bit of extra survivability.

It's certainly not a given, but they can have their moments.

Breachers are T3, that 5++ won't save them from any meaningful attack, as for pinning if they fail at killing-the drone itself will have to score a kill first, and that's unlikely, then the enemy fail moral, and even then its only relevant if they COULD charge to begin with (there are enough left to survive overwatch and actually win combat. even tau can win combat when they outnumber the enemy)

A 'vre with dual fusion and railfist is 67 points, and is as easy to kill as a pair of marines. if said 'vre could run riot in the parking lot, a simple 'ui with dual fusion would be just as effective as apperantly they didn't have the tools to fight off even a single crisis at the time.
The railfist is a nice gimmik if you already has the sig system clearence, but taking a 'vre just for the first is effectifly paying 15 points for that one low WS attack, your odds of getting anything done are low, even with railgun strength.

Nope.
If they at least got the same attribute raises Exarchs got, then yes. For +1A (ha!) and +1Ld... no.

Alcibiades wrote:
Crisis Bodyguards are Crisis Suits that are more or less Ogryns in close combat, making them Tau's pretty much only effective (as effective as Ogryns anyway) potential close combat unit. I don't think I would see them as a tax.

Ghostkeels are better CC units than Crisis will ever be.

OK, Ghostkeels. I was thinking infantry. Why them and not Riptides? Just the cost difference?

Anyway, the benfits of attaching drones to squads are really obvious.

Marker drones attached to Stealth Suits
-- Increase Initiative to 4, making surviving assault much more likely
-- Get Stealth and Shrouded
-- Can Infiltrate
-- Are highly mobile and can reposition, unlike Pathfinders

Gun drones attached to Breachers or Strike squads
-- Increase Initiative to 4, making surviving assault much more likely
-- Give them an attack with Pinning. If the FWs already have carbines, no big deal, but otherwise a handy thing to have if an enemy is moving into assault distance. They are however more accurate than FWs are
-- Are very good in Overwatch, another handy thing to have if you are about to be assaulted

I think people like making categorical statements ("Pathfinders are better, totally in every way!" or whatever) for some reason. This doesn't work because the units are, like, different and stuff.

How exactly does the drones increase the initiative of the unit..? Yes the drones have Initiative 4, But the rest of the unit are still initiative 2 and will strike on initiative 2 and thus have no better chance of surviving assault then before. Yes they get 2 attacks at initiative 4, but it wont save them.

It makes you better at Sweeping Advance so there's less chance of that wiping you out.

Merellin wrote:
How exactly does the drones increase the initiative of the unit..? Yes the drones have Initiative 4, But the rest of the unit are still initiative 2 and will strike on initiative 2 and thus have no better chance of surviving assault then before. Yes they get 2 attacks at initiative 4, but it wont save them.

it also allows you to test at I4 for VRT hit&run tests.

**edit** oh, and you can 'break up' melees by tossing a single suit with VRT and a drone into combat, then all the tau units can leave at once.

Ah, That makes sense. Sorry, I'm kind of dumb at times.. xD

 BoomWolf wrote:
The railfist is a nice gimmik if you already has the sig system clearence, but taking a 'vre just for the first is effectifly paying 15 points for that one low WS attack, your odds of getting anything done are low, even with railgun strength.

I wouldn't upgrade a crisis shas'ui for access, but if I must take a bodyguard anyway I might as well do something lulzy with it.

A related question: are MCs and Walkers immune to Blind?